Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | flinkywood | 216576 | ||
Doc, I thought JPII's paragraph pretty well done. As for the RCC anathematizing the Gospel, that is a pretty sweeping statement. Anyway, that one will stay corked. | ||||||
2 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | DocTrinsograce | 216596 | ||
Dear Flinkywood, My carefully chosen words were not intended pejorative "Romanist bashing." Their anathematizing of the Gospel is a matter of public record. See the Canons of the Council of Trent (1559-1563) briefly quoted below (session and canon cited): "If any one shall affirm, that man's freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be anathema." (S6CO4) "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema." (S6CO9) "If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favor of God; let him be anathema." (S6CO11) "If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema." (S6CO12) "If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema." (S7CO1) "If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not in deed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema." (S7CO4) "If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema." (S7CO5) "If anyone says that the principal fruit of the most Holy Eucharist is the remission of sins, or that other effects do not result from it, let him be anathema." (S13CO5) "If anyone says that faith alone is a sufficient preparation for receiving the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist, let him be anathema. [Sacramental confession] must necessarily be made beforehand by those whose conscience is burdened with mortal sin, however contrite they may consider themselves. Moreover, if anyone shall presume to teach, preach or obstinately assert, or in public disputation defend the contrary, he shall be eo ipso excommunicated." (S13CO11) " If anyone denies that for the full and perfect remission of sins three acts are required on the part of the penitent, constituting as it were the matter of the sacrament of penance..." (S14CO4) "If anyone denies that sacramental confession was instituted by divine law or is necessary to salvation..." (S14CO6) "...let him be anathema." "If any one saith, that the justified sins when he performs good works with a view to an eternal recompense; let him be anathema." (S6CO31) "If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life, -- if so be, however, that he depart in grace, -- and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema." (S6CO32) Of course, there is quite a bit more, these are just a few examples. There are two things that always impress me about the Council of Trent: (1) That the Reformers did such a good job of articulating and instructing others on the lost doctrines of the catholic (universal) church. (2) That the Romanists did such a good job of rendering those doctrines -- honestly, without embellishment or distortion -- for the purpose of anathematizing. We can revisit these canons in separate threads, to see how they contradict Scripture. In Him, Doc PS For any that might not know, the word "anathematizing" is a formal banishment from the church, condemning a person to eternal judgment in hell. The Romanists are asserting that holding or teaching the Biblical doctrines cited by the Council of Trent, accomplishes a kind of automatic anathematization (eo ipso); i.e., it requires no further action on their part. |
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3 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | flinkywood | 216625 | ||
Doc Thanks for posting these Trentian "anathemas". I was struck by how much sense they make against Calvin's theology, which I find harsh (dungpiles and filthy rags) and at variance with our Father's character as revealed in both testaments. (Did Calvin ever read 2Ki 20:1-6)? I say Father because a Judge--though He is also a Judge--loves His prodigal son far more than any judge can. And like the prodigal, when we turn back we come to our Father's house, to our Holy Family, not simply to a courtroom. To have "anathematized the gospels", if I understand your formulation, means that the RCC essentially disagreed with Calvin's--and your--NT perspective. Whoa. Now I don't know whether the RCC condemned Calvin or any other Reformer to hell for having instructed others in the "lost doctrines"(?) of the universal church, but I do think the RCC were within their rights to condemn his theology as they saw fit and to fling whatever arrows they had in his direction. The Reformers had equal right to shoot back. And shoot back they did. |
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4 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | DocTrinsograce | 216630 | ||
Dear Flinkywood, Those were only a few of the anathemas from the Council of Trent. If I remember correctly, there are over two hundred of them. By the way, a good study is to compare and contrast the Canons of Trent with the Canons of Orange (529 AD). What a difference in content, expression, and approach! I apologize for causing you apparent angst. The truth has a way of doing that in us (Psalm 141:5; Proverbs 27:5-6). I find that the greatest areas of growth for me, personally, occur at the points at which I am most uncomfortable (Hebrews 12:11). When we operate only in our comfort zones, we fail to push the envelope of our beliefs (James 4:8-10). What we are after, is the mind of God, not the mind of men (Romans 12:2). Truly, it all has nothing to do with you, me, Augustine, Pelagius, Calvin, or some Pope -- burning straw dummies accomplishes nothing (Ecclesiastes 4:13). God is the ultimate judge (Psalm 96:13); and, to that end, He has graciously given us His final say on all matters relating to saving faith, knowledge, and obedience (2 Timothy 3:16). Our judgment has authority only insofar as it accurately reflects the Scripture (cf 1 Corinthians 15:3). God commands men to believe the truth, nevertheless, no one on the forum requires that of anyone. How could we do so, when such belief is solely a gift of grace? However, our host does require that we conform our posts with the doctrine of sola Scriptura. Anyone posting here has made that promise at the time they created their account (see the Terms of Use). If we contravene that doctrine here then ... 1. It denies the ultimate authority of our Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:1-2), placing an idol in its place. 2. It undermines our authority, as I mentioned, since we will be solely teaching from the vain and deceitful philosophies of men (Matthew 7:3-13; Colossians 2:8). 3. It results in a question of our integrity (1 John 2:3-4), misrepresenting the character of the Lord Himself and denying how He has dealt with His own (Colossians 3:1-13). 4. It implies that there is some other agenda than study of the Word -- which thing we are gathered to study in the forum. 5. It violates the promise by which we use the resources of the Lockman Foundation (Matthew 5:37). Remember, they have a purpose for the software and hardware of this forum, let us not presume to abuse that purpose (Deuteronomy 5:19). 6. It reveals a lack of compassion, love, and respect for forum readers (Ephesians 4:25; 1 John 3:18). We are all here because we seek the truth of the Word. If we want something else, then we can easily find a Study SomethingElse Forum. In Him, Doc |
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5 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | flinkywood | 216637 | ||
Doc, I know the guidelines, as I've haunted SBF for a good while. Also, no need to apologize for my "angst", since I had none. |
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6 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | DocTrinsograce | 216638 | ||
Ah... I wouldn't have known... Thank you for your willingness to adjust to sola Scriptura conformance. | ||||||