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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | HOTH | 176006 | ||
Hi eklektos, Your Question: “In speaking of the nations, other than Israel and Judah, as you first asked, who do you see these multitudes of nations to be?” Yes, that was my question. The reason I asked was the verses concerning these “multitude of nations” seem pretty much ignored. I wanted to see what others thought and their reasoning. I truly appreciate your efforts and for sticking with it. Your answers were representative of what I have heard from others, but not in written form with scripture cited. Since mine is not the traditional viewpoint, I am appreciative of the additional study and understanding this exchange has provided. First, let me clarify, in speaking of the “many nations,” I was referring to nations other than the Ancient Kingdom of Judah and the Ancient Kingdom of Israel as having fulfilled these prophesies at the time of their existence. I would also exclude the Modern State of Israel. They were never “many nations” nor were their populations too numerous to count. In Bible study, I have heard that the Northern Kingdom of Israel was either 1) consolidated with Judea at the time of the return from Babylon or 2) were absorbed by the Assyrians and/or other peoples and ceased to exist. I found these explanations not only to contradict each other, but both to be inconsistent with scripture. Ancient Judah was carried off into captivity in Babylon and returned 70 years later. Judea consisted of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin as well as individuals from the some of the other tribes. When Jesus came, his own did not receive him. (John 1:11) I believe “his own” refers to the tribe of Judah, the Jews, tribe of his descent. The Modern State of Israel is populated by the children of Judah. Modern Israel is Ancient Judah, not Ancient Israel (Ezra 10:9). Ancient Israel, the Northern Kingdom, received the promises of numerous descendants and “many nations.” Therefore, I see these “multitudes of nations” as: 1. The descendants of Abraham, the “father of many nations.” (Genesis 17:4-6) This covenant was so important, that it is repeated 3 times in these 3 verses. 2. The descendants of Jacob, who would be “a nation and a company of nations.” (Genesis 35:11) 3. The descendants of Jacob’s son Joseph and Joseph’s sons Ephraim and Manasseh. Ephraim held the birthright. (1 Chronicles 5:2.) Ephraim’s “offspring shall become a multitude of nations.” Ephraim and Manasseh were half Egyptian. (Genesis 41:45) This might give them slightly different characteristics than those of the children of Judah. 4. The “House of Israel.” Israel’s name would be perpetuated in Ephraim and Manasseh and they would become a multitude in the midst of the earth. (Genesis 48:16, 19) The house of Israel is not the house of Judah. (1 Kings 12:21) 5. Christian nations who, in the last days, (Genesis 49:1) would be attacked by others but retain their military strength and “were made strong and active by the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob, by the name of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel.” (Genesis 49:24) “ . . . shall come a Ruler Who will govern and shepherd My people Israel. (Matthew 2:6) He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:6) Jesus Christ has been a shepherd to the house of Israel, but not to the house of Judah. He was not rejected by the house of Israel, but the house of Judah, his own. 6. Nations with blessings of vast natural resources, good climate and large populations. (Genesis 49:25, Deuteronomy 33:13-16) 7. The firstborn of God and are in the isles and coastlands far away. (Jeremiah 31:9-10) 8. In the Isles and coastlands. (Isaiah 49:1) 9. The descendants of the 7,000 of Israel, which the Lord reserved for himself, who were carried into captivity by Assyria. (1 Kings 20) They lost their identity, yet they would be “as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered.” (Hosea 1:10). This is why I see the “multitude of Nations” as being the Christian Anglo-Saxon nations. It seems to be to be the logical and consistent meaning of these scriptures. As you pointed out, those of other physical descent who have accepted Jesus Christ have also become the children of Abraham. That fulfills prophesy of “all families” being blessed in Jesus, but not the prophesies of a “multitude of Nations” or descendants as “sand of the sea.” If anyone can show me scripture that contradicts or expands on these thoughts, I would very much like to see them. Thanks again, Hoth |
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2 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | eklektos | 176712 | ||
Greetings Hoth, A long time. I'm back again! You wrote, "This is why I see the “multitude of Nations” as being the Christian Anglo-Saxon nations." That is agreeable. The prophesy of descendants as "sand of the sea", if we consider the time that has elapsed from then until now, we would be hard pressed to count the number of descendants of Abraham today, and it is not over yet. This prophecy will not be completely completed until the return of our Lord Jesus, for Abraham's family is continually being born, physically and spiritually as the Lord blesses. eklektos |
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3 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | HOTH | 176721 | ||
Hi eklektos, Welcome back. Well stated, I can't add to it! Hoth |
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