Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | John Reformed | 95823 | ||
Ok Darcy, Your example of a perfect church seems to be a small group of people who meet at a house for worship and bible study. No goverment, no leaders, no teachers aside from the Holy Spirit. But what steps were taken by the early church when multitudes were added to their number? They had to get organized to meet the needs of those new babes in Christ! "If all who profess the name of Christ understood the Bible in the same sense and interpreted the Bible in the same way, a creed distinct from the Bible would be unnecessary. In that case, all that would be necessary to ascertain that there exists agreement among the members of the Church would be simply a profession of faith in all the doctrines of the Bible. But, since it is not so,—since, among those who professedly regard the Bible as the rule of faith and life very different interpretations are put upon the word of God,—it becomes necessary that those who associate together in an ecclesiastical capacity should adopt a creed, in which there is a plain exhibition of what they understand to be the doctrines of the Bible. In no other way can it be known whether there exists among them that agreement which is indispensably necessary to secure co-operation in their efforts to advance the interests of Christ’s kingdom." (Pressly) It does no good to ignore reality. How can a group of people be in one accord if they lack that which plainly states THEIR interpretation of the Bible? John |
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2 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | DarcyA | 95829 | ||
I didn't say no teachers or Pastors. The believers all have gifts 1 Cor 12:28 for the Church. The main problem with the creed is that the creed is used to prove the Bible correct or not. This is not an attack on the Othordox Church, and if it is considered an attack I apologize to the lockman foundation. The problem with alot of Christians when they study they go back to the church fathers then there is a big sign there "STOP" Then we look past the founding fathers all the way to Genesis. What I think should be done go past the fathers and go to the book of Genesis don't stay at the church fathers and look way down the road at the scripture go to the scripture. Every human being was fallible. The Great Heros of the faith were fallibable on some doctrines take Martin Luther for example. Great man of God. But he believed Israel was the church. You take Martin Luther to he had to look past tradition to get to the truth of the Bible. If He didn't do that we would still be Bibless reading out of a latin bible chained to the pelpet. I am not saying that these men are not Great Heros of the Faith. If Peter listened to what the Church had believed and didn't allow God to show him We would never have been given the Gospel. A creed should say this The Bible is Infalible Jesus is our lord and savior. SOmething along those lines but boy do creeds have to be pages thick now. Where in the creed does it allow a man to think for himself? By the way who was Paul talking to when he wrote the letter to Corinth about the Guy who was commiting adultry? He was talking to the whole congergation not the pastor or the elders. Creeds aren't for me. The bible is. The church isn't doing you any favors by allowing you to join a church you are blessing the church to many times its looked the other way. You think if Jesus walked into a church today he would be immedately accepted if there is a creed in the way and you MUST believe in this things exactly the same way as them? (And I know that Jesus isn't going to walk into a church) I thinkj if a creed is made from man or men can hinder you from knowing the truth because you can not venture away from what the creed says. Creeds will stop the GOspel from going out in certain situations. I believe some creeds are accuarte but doesn't mean I like them because I am not sure that I am accurate. |
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3 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | John Reformed | 95830 | ||
Dear Darcy, "I didn't say no teachers or Pastors. The believers all have gifts 1 Cor 12:28 for the Church. The main problem with the creed is that the creed is used to prove the Bible correct or not." Like all things, creeds may be mis-used by wicked men for their own evil purpose. But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. The main problem is men also twist the Bible! We don't blame the Bible do we? Then why blame a sound creed because it was mis-used! You also said Creeds are not for you. But the moment you attempt to explain what you believe, you are espousing your personal creed based upon your interpretation and understanding of Scripture! I'm begining to think that the problems which you have encountered at certain churches has pejudiced you against organized churches period! John |
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4 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | DarcyA | 95834 | ||
I don't have predjudiced toward any churches John I don't know for sure this is a good sound creed it was created by man its not the Word of God. If it was completely sound I think it should be added to the cannon. This is the Creed/Statement of faith from the Church that I go to. We Believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we posses and with without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians. We Believe worship of God should be Spiritual. therefore: We remain flexible and yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit to direct our worship. We Believe worship of God should be inspirational. Therefore we give a great place to music in our worship. We Believe worship of God should be Intelligent. Therefore Our services are designed with great emphasis upon teaching the Word of God that He might instruct us how He should be worshipped. We Believe worship of God is Fruitful. Therefore We look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have truly been worshipping Him. Now that claims what the church believes but does it mean we must believe everything it states in order to grow in Christ? This statement doesn't bother me because First its not trying to prove the Bible is correct by what we believe. It also doesn't Hinder any one from getting close to God. Creed like that are fine to me. We don't have a formal membership there neither. Not saying our church is perfect Only God is perfect. In Christ, Darcy I remeber a person who went to a church he was newly saved. He thought you had to be baptized to be saved. I pointed out in scripture were it doesn't say that. Showed him romans 10 ect. He said well your wrong because my Church's statement of faith says your wrong. That is how alot of these creeds work today and I think its a shame. In Christ, Darcy |
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5 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | John Reformed | 96101 | ||
Dear Darcy, Your churches creed is fairly non-specific. There is no statement that sticks out as being overtly heretical, bit neither is there anything that is a strong statement on Salvation; The person of Christ; eschatology etc. Frankly, if I were to look at this "creed" alone (having no other information available) I would not be able to say it was truly christian. It also troubles me that the Scriptural foundations for these statements are not provided (in fairness...perhaps you just did'nt include them). Your statement about the new (ill-informed believer) really proves only his immaturity in Christ. But my main contention is that for a creed to be accepted as true it must be an accurate reflection of that which the Bible teaches. Even then it still remains secondary to the Scripture itself! Creeds are written by fallible men and therefore are subject to error. Nevertheless, they are absolutely essential and should be developed, taught and studied in the light of God's Holy Word itself. John |
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6 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | DarcyA | 96103 | ||
John, ...I would not be able to say it was truly christian. And a true Christian is? I can't judge. I personally do not like creeds. First of they are man made. Secondly they Limit the Holy Spirit into doing what the creed says. Thirdly they tell Humans what to believe in every instance. My church Does believe Saved through faith by grace. Personally although it isn't in our "creed" thats is all that needed to be in a creed. But it doesn't need anyones judgmanet on is it a Christian Church or not there is only one that matters and that is Christ. My opinion will not change on Creeds. They weren't in the bible, the have caused divisions they dictatre on how to praise and worship. They put God into a little box. Because of the creeds there is no Biblical love only conditional love either accept our creed or get out! I am saved through grace I don't need anything else especally a creed. My creed consists of 66 infallible Books. Why do we need a 67? I think God did very good job in creating the creed. As creeds get churches to go against other churches who's creeds are different. Jesus said love each other and they will know that you are my disciples (Paraphasing) And we wonder why the lost world is out there? Because they don't know that we are His disciples. We attack each other for different beliefs on certain issues. I can imagine some people are going to get a quick kick when we get to heaven for not loving each other. And causing divisions in the body of christ. I hope I'm not one of them. How is Jesus supposed to be shown as love when we can't love each other who has Christ in each other. In Christ, Darcy |
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7 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | John Reformed | 96109 | ||
Well Darcy, As long as we are to discard our creeds, I suppose our doctrines must be cast aside as well! By saying that you believe creeds are harmfull to the Body of Christ, you have inadvertantly stated a creed of your own. By stating it in a public forum, you have exposed a desire to have all persons believe as you do. Hmmm...interesting. :-) If you were the founder of a new denomination, would you not think it necessary to inform prospective worshippers what you believed and why you believe it (based on Scripture)? I know you don't mean to do so, but in actuality you are advocating anarchy! Let everyman believe antthing he wants to believe as long as he says he got it from reading the Bible! This is a prescription for chaos. Does it not seem more reasonable to allow church leaders to formulate creeds but to insist on a biblical foundation for them? John |
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8 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | DarcyA | 96116 | ||
I'm not asking anyone to believe anything that I do. (BTW we aren't talking about salvation. When I was saved. I had only me, God's Word, and the Holy Spirit. No creeds no anything except one commentary on Mark. I spent 8 houirs a day studing. I didn't have to base any belief on what someone else thought. One main problems with Creeds people believe but they don't know why they believe it. I know what I believe and why I believe it. (Not saying all are correct) My point is if you know Christ as your lord and savior isn't he a member of the Church? Of course he is. But not welcomed at a church if any belief is different than what the creed says. In turn THAT church has hindered that person from worship and praiseing God. Jesus was against people who knew the Law or thought they did He was agaist them strong. Aren't we now in the same boat? Jeusus said to believe in One thing To believe in Him. (John 3:16) But We as the church decided No Jesus thats not good enough we want to add this and that...Just as the Scribes and Pharsees did. I have the attitude Do you want to study the Bible. You do? Good lets do it. Not before we start do you believe in the gifts? Do you believe you should blink this many times. Do you believe you can raise your hands in church or not?Creeds have always been the number one reason for splits. It has always been the #1 reason why the Gospel is not getting out. It is the #1 reason people don't see Christ's love in us. If something is reasonable or not its not biblical. Have Faith in Christ then everything will fall into place. In Christ, Darcy |
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9 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | John Reformed | 96121 | ||
Friend Darcy, If you were to study church history you would find that the creeds developed by the church fathers were an attempt to protect the flock from ravenous wolves, who sought to spread heresy among God's people. It seems that you have had a bad experience in which the creed of a particlar church caused grief to you and your wife. You neglected to say if that church backed-up this creed with scripture. Did they? If they did not offer an arguement from scripture that convinced your conscience that it was God's truth, then you were right to seek fellowship elsewhere. But, just because some men mis-use God's Word by twisting it into a false creed does not justify your attitude twords creeds in general. John |
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10 | A New Reformation? | Revelation | DarcyA | 96125 | ||
Nah, its not due to the Church. Its what I see every where I turn. Some guy on this end is saying Ohhh this guy comes from Satan because He believes Abraham had I dunno example 10 wives or This guy was wrong and not of God because he believes in the rapture or healings. People are so based on there creeds more than the Bible. But John wrote test the spirits see if they are of God. Now we don't test we assume because of whats in the creed. I'm not saying a Baptist should fellowship (Can't think of a better word right now) with a pentecostal or vis versa. But neither should groups put each other down. As long as the Beilieve in Jesus Christ, being the only way to salvation ect. That is all that counts. Now we gotten to the point if your a guy and have long hair or he doesn't look right he's not saved. Why is this? Its because of the creed. I am in Christ I have no doubts on that. He saved a wretch like me. Why does anything else really matter on who I worship with. OR I have to go by a creed I go by the Holy Spirit always have since I been saved. He has never failed me and I know for sure that He won't fail me. He will put His arms around me when I feel down. He will teach me. He will answer my questions if the answers are in the bible. Sometimes it takes a lot of Studing, screaming whining like a baby. But I do get my answer. I don't put Him in a box saying this is how He must act. He acts in love that I can't even put it into words I can't put that into a Creed. There is not any right words to put how much God loves us. He is love! As for that Church yes they backed it up with verses but none of those veres really fit. But I have no hard feelings towards that church. I knew it was a matter of time because I feel called to preach the Gospel in Israel. And there are some things that happened to me before the cross that crepts up with there doctrine. And I wanted to go to a school they wern't to fond of. I am still going to that school in the spring. And I feel a strong urge to Preach the Gospel in Israel. But I hold no bitter feelings toward that church. They just believed on certain subjects I disagreed with. I still talk bible with a couple of people from there. (Although that is getting sticky) Because I don't want to split that church. Nor do I want to lie on what happened. So I dread the day that I am asked what happened. But over all I hear horror stories about creeds all the time. Its time especally in these last days to say okay we disagree here but I still love you. And we will get the gospel out. We won't talk bad about each other. Sounds nice but I don't see it happening. Everything is so based on Doctrine that we can't look past it. Or even see if they might have a point. My dad lives a long ways away we talk Bible almost daily we can have differences and thats okay. Why can't it be like that in Churches? I think its because of creeds and won't venture away from that creed. The only thing that you can't venture away from is Jesus Christ. I just think its time to love one another so they know we are His disciples. In Christ, Darcy |
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