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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Ray | 12168 | ||
I have been comparing Deuteronomy 4:35, 2Samuel 7:22, Isaiah 45:21, and Mark 12:32 in the NASB. I also compared Isaiah 43:11 with Savior capitalized to Mark 12:32. By the way, Savior is capitalized many times as in Isa.43:3 and 49:26. It is this study that leads to this question; for I would like to interpret 2 Samuel 7:22b as "and there is no god (no other)(no one else) besides You." Are there any scholars out there who could give any reason for necessarily capitalizing "and there is no God besides You, according to all we have heard with our ears." |
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2 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Makarios | 12213 | ||
Yes Ray! 2 Samuel 7:22 is interesting.. The word "God" is translated from the Hebrew word 'elohim'.. "430 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty." (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "'elohim' (43b); pl. of H433; God, god:—divine (1), divine being (1), exceedingly (1), God (2326), god (45), God’s (14), goddess (2), godly (1), gods (204), great (2), judges (3), mighty (2), rulers (1), shrine *(1)." (NASB Exhaustive Concordance) Since the word "elohim" is used here in the Hebrew, which is one of the names of God, the NASB, NKJV and Amplified translators saw fit to capitalize the English word "God" as pertaining to the original word that is used in this verse. To not capitalize the word "God" here would be to sacrifice accuracy (since a very name of God was used here: 'elohim') for someone's interpretation. Since the very name of God is used here, then it seems quite logical and fitting that this word should be capitalized. In the context, it also makes sense for "God" to be capitalized, since there is no other being anywhere in all of the universe that can be called or be referred to as 'elohim' other than God Himself! "There is no 'elohim' besides You!" --Nolan |
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3 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Ray | 12246 | ||
Hi Nolan, You got my hopes up there for a minute by your "Yes Ray". You mean however that yes there are some scholars out there rather than "yes, my interpretation is OK." Thanks for your work here for me. The question that I need to ask according to the information that you gave me is "Does elohim have the plural and the article necessary for it to be interpreted the supreme God?"in this 2Samuel passage? The people in the passage had heard over and over that there is no other, there is none else; now here in this verse, 2 Samuel 7:22 they are to interpret by the use of their ears. If it were to be capitalized I would have to see it. |
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4 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Makarios | 12250 | ||
Dear Ray, This passage (2 Samuel 7:22) remains very interesting! The Hebrew word for God in the phrase "there is no God besides You.." is 'elohiym' which is actually a plural form of the Hebrew word 'elowahh', which refers to both deity (or a god) and the Deity or God. However, in this case the words "besides" and "no" seem to single out the meaning of this word as referring to the Diety or God, even though this 'elohiym' is also used in reference to angels. "The Proper Name of God in The Old Testament: In the Scriptures, the name of God is most significant and understandably so. It is inconceivable to think of spiritual matters without a proper designation for the Supreme Deity. Thus the most common name for the Deity is God, a translation of the original 'Elohim'. One of the titles for God is Lord, a translation of 'Adonai'. There is yet another name which is particularly assigned to God as His special or proper name, that is, the four letters 'YHWH' (Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 42:8). This name has not been pronounced by the Jews because of reverence for the great sacredness of the divine name. Therefore, it has been consistently translated LORD. The only exception to this translation of is when it occurs in immediate proximity to the word Lord, that is, 'Adonai'. In that case it is regularly translated GOD in order to avoid confusion. It is known that for many years YHWH has been transliterated as 'Yahweh', however no complete certainty attaches to this pronunciation." (From the NASB Principles of Translation) So is 'Elohim' (a name of God) being used here in 2 Samuel 7:22 or is there another word that is used here that would cause this to be a plural (and therefore lowercase) form? In 2 Samuel 7:22, the same Hebrew word 'elohiym' is the same Hebrew word that is used in Genesis 1:1, stating that "In the beginning God ('elohiym') created the heavens and the earth".. Therefore, the NASB, NKJV and Amplified translators saw fit to render this verse as "no God besides You" rather than "no god besides You", since a very 'title' of God is used here in 2 Samuel 7:22, which is made distinctive by the article "no" and the word "besides" which is used in the text. However, the word "YHWH", which is the 'proper name' of God, is not being referred to here. Despite this reasoning, I can see where you would come to the conclusion that "God" should not be capitalized here, even though I am unable to find any support for that. All of the translations of the Bible that I own (every single one of them) has the word "God" capitalized here in this phrase in 2 Samuel 7:22. I hope that this study has proven as interesting to you as it has for me! --Nolan |
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5 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Ray | 12269 | ||
Hi Nolan, It's great thinking of these things with you. Two things before I continue. You had said from your sources, that the plural and the article were factors for the upper case translation but you mentioned lowercase in your last post. Also, you mentioned "no" as an article; which I question. When I think of a no god I think of no god at all. Exodus 20 says "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." It would be interesting to look at the times where it is written "Besides Me there is no God" and compare it to our verse here from 2Samuel. 2 Samuel 7:22 should also be compared to 1 Chronicles 17:20 where this same prayer is recorded. In fact Nolan, you are familiar with my "brain teaser"; take a look at these prayers along with John 17. Another passage that I looked at originally was Isaiah 45:21 and the context in the verse before it was about praying to a god who cannot save. Thus, I would not be surprised if this "no other god besides Me" would also be appropritate. And also we cannot save ourselves for continuing in Isaiah 47:8-10 we find those who say in their hearts and in their security, "I am, and there is no one besides me." |
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6 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Makarios | 12376 | ||
Greetings Ray, my dear Brother in Christ! Yes, I agree! We have learned a lot together in our 'ongoing studies' of capitalization.. :) I am sure, my friend, that you of course mean no harm at all in studying the specific 'quirks' and reasonings behind different translations, and these studies have shed much light on the 'philosophies' of the usage, presentation or the reference to God throughout our English Bibles, namely, the NASB, NKJV and the Amplified. :) You mentioned 1 Chronicles 17:20, where the NASB, NKJV and Amplified all capitalize "God" and "You", which I agree is the same exact thought as expressed in 2 Samuel 7:22.. And Isaiah 45:21 is also interesting in light of this thought, since all three translations that we are using to study (that place special emphasis on capitalization) have capitalized "God", "Me" and "Savior" here. However, the word 'one' in Isaiah 47:8-10 is not capitalized in any one of the translations, which leads me to believe that a different meaning is implied here by the context. Yes, I will indeed look at your 1 Chronicles 17:20 thread! :) Ray, your studies are always interesting to read and encouraging to me since I know that you are studying the Word with such depth! Keep up the excellent studies, my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Nolan |
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7 | "and there is is none besides You." OK? | 2 Sam 7:22 | Ray | 12574 | ||
Hi Nolan, I appreciate your work in studying the Hebrew with me. I wonder if you became interested in studying the places where it says "Besides Me there is no God". I am interested in the differences in the Hebrew words of these passages for I believe that the arrangement of "Besides Me" being first, allows the introduction of that important article that we spoke of earlier. I may have to explain better what I mean; later if necessary. We spoke earlier of how Savior is capitalized in Isaiah and I'm thinking now of Isaiah 43:11. Here the besides Me is in the last part of the phrase but I see no reason what it should not be capitalized. Isn't it great to know that "there was no strange god among you." Isaiah 43:12 Later, Ray P.S. As far as Isaiah 47:8-10 is concerned, I never would consider capitalizing the words of that phrase. |
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