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Results		Verse	Author	ID#
21	Discipleship	NT general Archive 1	Tim Sheasby	34485
	I can highly recommend the book "Purpose Driven Youth Ministry" by Doug Fields (Published by Zondervan). Actually shows how you need to disciple people at their own level. Although this is a book aimed at youth ministers I have found it of great benefit in terms of general congregaional discipleship. There is another book (which I have not yet read) by the senior pastor at Doug Field's church called "The purpose driven church" that might also be of help.
22	how can we loose our salvation.	NT general Archive 1	Tim Sheasby	34483
	Actually, when are we truly saved? I recently read an article that asked this question. The writer, a Christian cartoonist named Bob West, makes the following observations: 1. Some scriptures suggest you are saved at the moment of belief (John 3:16; Acts 16:31) 2. Some scriptures say you can't be saved by faith alone (James 2:17,24,26) 3. Some scpiptures say you are saved by repentance (Acts 3:19 -- no faith mentioned) 4. Some scriptures say you are saved by confession (Rom 10:10; 1 Jno 1:9) 5. Some scriptures say you are saved by baptism (Mark 16:16; 1 pet 3:21) 6. Some scriptures say it is when we endure to the end (Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Mark 13:13) I have posted elsewhere on this forum my defence of the necessity for baptism in salvation. However, I have had to do some re-evaluation. Bob West comes from the same religious background as I. He goes on to make these observations: 1. Focus on baptism tends to make us believe this is the "sacrament" that saves. 2. Focus on "belief" also is problematic. The word "believe" today is somewhat diluted. There are many who think "I believe in God so I'm safe". 3. We are often concerned with "when" we are saved instead of "how" we are saved. Let me quote from Bob's essay: "So, when does God save us? The "when" question need never arise as long as people simply proclaim the good news, promise salvation to those who surrender themselves to Jesus, and faithfully baptize believers as they come to faith. "When" only becomes an issue when we take our eyes off what God has done in Christ to focus on ourselves and what we are doing. Those who truly trust in Jesus will want to do what He says. That certainly includes being baptized in Jesus' name. It includes observing all else that Jesus has taught, confident of His empowering presence, although we do not see Him with human eyes (Matthew 28:19-20). But our obedience will always be imperfect. Even our best efforts will always come up short of God's righteous standards. We can only trust in Jesus for salvation, never in anything we have done." In His Service Tim Sheasby
23	how can we loose our salvation.	NT general Archive 1	Tim Sheasby	34479
	Dear Lionstrong, Please excuse my interjection here. The verses Zach quotes show that it IS possible to loose your salvation. This is not a matter of God's inability to save or of our own merit. The verses show that while our salvation rests in God sometimes our damnation rests in ourselves. If we reject God and his salvation -- we walk away from it -- then our salvation is lost.
24	What is 'the fruit of the vine'?	Matt 26:29	Tim Sheasby	34478
	What is 'the fruit of the vine'? Most people in American protestant churches or in churches rooted in American Protestantism believe it is "any fruit of the vine" or that it is "grape juice". At first glance, the phrase could be taken to mean anything that originates in the vine. However, if we are to practice good principles of hermeneutics, we need to establish the scope of meaning (if any) as it was used in the first century. This has been discussed to some extent in the context of 1 Cor 11:17 ff. However, I have been doing some further study on this and have found that the more I study, the more evidence I find that it can only be wine and can never be grape juice. Have any of you got any evidence that contradicts this? I will be posting some more thorough notes in due course.
25	why is baptism important	2 Cor 5:17	Tim Sheasby	23464
	I argue no more. I am not conceding the point but one last thing -- Baptism is never by sprinkling or pouring, it is by immersion only. You don't bury a body by throwing a few grains of sand on the head -- you completely cover it. Baptism means immersion. The Greek Orthodox Church have always practiced baptism by immersion because they understand the force of the Greek word 'baptizo'. Baptism by sprinkling or pouring can be shown historically to have originated only about 400AD. Sorry, still disagree with your conclusions but I suppose that's life. In Christ Tim
26	A divorced pastor in ministry?	1 Tim 3:2	Tim Sheasby	23459
	Thank you. As far as serving as a pastor, this is to some extent a congregational matter. If the majority of my congregation, or even a significant minority, were to object to me serving in that role I would not serve anyway, in spite of anything I might personally believe on the matter. But that does not, and will not, stop me from performing the tasks of a pastor anyway since these are things that all Christians should aspire to and do anyway. Amen? In the absence of elders or pastors in our congregation we have a group of concerned Christians who are trying to fill the role of the eldership and deaconate in an unofficial way. As it stands at the moment the group is open to any who desire to attend and this group handles preaching and teaching schedules, worship, benevolence, visitation etc. Our preacher said once, "we won't have elders and deacons until we have them." Elders or pastors are appointed because they are already doing the work. It is something that is deeply ingrained in their personalities perhaps. They have a strong desire to serve God and do it anyway, recognised or not. Of a congregation of 150 there are 8 men and 4 women who are in this group. This is regretably not the biblical pattern and we are working actively toward that ideal but in the mean time we have to do what we have to do. We are not self appointed guardians of the church, we are just the only ones who turn up for these meetings. Do I qualify? As to being the husband of one wife, that I am. As to the other requirements that is a matter for my brethren and congregation to determine and judge. Whether my having been divorced means I am not 'above reproach' or not is also something the congregation is to decide, I believe. I strive for those ideals and pray God, by His grace, brings me there one day. I will continue to serve Him to the best of my ability anyway. To Him be the glory. In Christ Tim Sheasby
27	What does baptism consist?	1 John 5:6	Tim Sheasby	23455
	OK, I agree that "faith works". Works demonstrate faith in other words. Though most on this forum seem to agree that baptism is important they do not agree with me on just how important it is. At the same time I have read postings that point to the idea that baptism is not optional -- which says to me it is essential. This may be semantics, I know, and we may be closer in belief that I want to admit but the issue is not whether we are saved by grace or faith or the Blood of Christ since I agree with you on all those points. The issue is at what instant are your sins forgiven? Not what saves you but at what point in time are you saved? When Jesus died on the cross he paid the debt for all our sins -- Rom 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". Yes, there are many references that say we are saved by grace, saved by faith. But the only verses I recall that talk about remission of sins or washing away sins (except when the Saviour spoke directly to individuals while He was still alive) are in Acts 2:38 "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." and Acts 22:16 "'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'" Since sin has to be removed and baptism is the mechanism for that I cannot see how one can be saved without it. Furthermore Romans 6 draws the analogy even further and says we are baptized into Christ's death and then are raised to walk in newness of life. Not the other way around. According to the timetable of most on this forum you are raised from the dead spiritually (saved) first and then you get burried to prove it. This does not work for me. I was baptised to show I had repented and so that I could wash away my sins (as opposed to the filth of the flesh). Water baptism does not represent spiritual baptism to me -- it is part of the same event. I must now apologise, I get drawn into this argument so easily but that is because I feel it is so vital. I can't help myself! In Jesus Christ our Redeemer Tim Sheasby
28	A divorced pastor in ministry?	1 Tim 3:2	Tim Sheasby	23323
	Word from a divorcee. When my wife left me for another man I looked long and hard at myself. I come from a family who do not get divorced. It was a total shock to me that my ex could commit adultery, that she could even contemplate divorce. Yet as events unfolded I was the one who filed for divorce. Do I feel some guilt for errors I made in my marriage? YES. Unfortunately though, there are many things that might contribute to a divorce. My wife said it had nothing to do with any failure on my part. I thank her for that but still know I had some part at least in my divorce. When I saw signs of trouble I hid my head in the sand. I learned something from that though. It didn't make me weaker as a Christian. Ultimately it made me stronger, wiser, more sensitive, more human. It made me a better minister of God's word. Rom 8:28 "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." Tim
29	A divorced pastor in ministry?	1 Tim 3:2	Tim Sheasby	23322
	Remember too that God himself divorced his wife Israel -- Jeremiah 3:8 And verse 1 of the same chapter indicates that once divorced the marriage cannot be reinstated (See also Deut 24:1 following). Divorce is a terrible thing but though there may be sin attached, sin repented of can and should be forgiven. For some reason divorce has become an unforgivable sin in the church. Jesus said we should forgive seventy times seven times Matt 18:22.
30	Elder must be 'the husband of one wife'?	1 Tim 3:2	Tim Sheasby	23320
	By the same token, though, It is difficult for someone who has not been through divorce, for any reason, to understand divorce. As a divorcee myself, I hate divorce. I hate that I got divorced. I hate that my ex had no commitment to our marriage and looked for fun and entertainment elsewhere. Now I cannot change that but my experience has helped me support a woman in my congregation who was going through similar things. I am remarried and thank God everyday for my wife Jackie. Do we ever have problems? Of course we do. In fact some of the things that drove my first wife crazy drive my second wife crazy. The difference is that my second wife has the same commitment to our marriage that I have. I must also point out that my divorce from my first wife changed me in some way. It changed my perspectives and priorities and brought me closer to God again. Does the failure of my marriage eight years ago mean that NOW I am unable to handle the affairs of my household properly? Divorce can perhaps make or break you. Other Christians who have also been divorced have expressed similar views to me -- they also hate divorce. Those who were divorced "unscripturally" have repented of that sin. Forgiven of the sin does the sin still preclude them from leadership in the church? If not, why not? In Christ, Tim
31	What does 1 Tim 3:2 mean?	1 Tim 3:2	Tim Sheasby	23319
	I have been divorced. Perhaps my testimony on this will be of assistance. At the time I felt some anger toward my ex-wife because it had always been my aspiration to be an elder in the church. In my understanding at the time I believed my divorce now prevented me from that great work. My divorce might have been considered "scriptural" because my ex-wife committed adultery, yet I was treated by some in the church as if I had committed the unforgivable sin. My divorce was difficult not only for me but for my parents as well. I grew up with a strong belief that you do not get divorced. In the closing years of my marriage I went out of my way to please my ex and this only seemed to rouse her disdain. Her conviction of my weakness. When I found out about her infidelity (I had no choice, she and her boyfriend came to my house to get her things so they could move in with each other), I went the next day to see a lawyer. This was not a hasty thing, I had known about the boyfriend for some time and had tried several times to get my wife to go with me for counseling. I only managed to get her to go 2 times but clearly she was defiant and unrepentant at that point. She told me later that she was also surprised that I went and filed for divorce at all. She didn't think I had it in me. Now, many years later, we are both remarried and I hear that she has returned to the church (which she also left at the time of our separation). I have also looked at the scriptures again because a divorced friend of mine suggested I should be nominated as an elder in my congregation. Most people in my congregation do not even know of my divorce since it happened long ago and in another city. It is not that I keep is secret but it just usually does not come up in conversation. However the point that my friend made is that Paul does not say "one wife ever" but rather "one wife now". It is my commitment to my wife and my marriage that is important. At this point I am not assuming the position of elder, but, along with several other men, I strive to the best of my ability to do the duties and works of an elder anyway. I preach and teach, I counsel, I visit and pray for the sick, I give to my brethren who are in hardship, I do not get drunk, I do not brawl, I welcome strangers into my home. Lest I boast, though, I also sin in ways I am ashamed of. I often marvel that I am what I am today even though I have so often strayed from the straight and narrow and can only believe it the grace of God that keeps bringing me back. Was I guilty of sin against my first wife? Probably, I cannot concieve of a relationship where neither party never sins against the other. But if commitment is there, and love is there, then that sin can be forgiven. Can I serve as an elder? Perhaps. And perhaps only if my congregation accepts me in that position. I still desire the office and whether my brethren believe me qualified or not I believe that it is the duty of every Christian to try live up to the qualifications of an elder anyway. I pray God will help me to do that. "Above reproach" may be against me -- but that is something that is in the eyes of the congregation and community in which I work. It is for them to determine that aspect of my life. Tim Sheasby
32	why is baptism important	2 Cor 5:17	Tim Sheasby	23317
	Dear Nolan. I know I said I was going to lay this to rest but some of your comments made me look at a few things this weekend. (Actually had a lot more I would have like to have done but on Saturday morning the wife of our Sunday morning preacher phoned to tell me that her husband was terribly ill with bronchitis and would not be able to preach Sunday Morning and his son baled out at the last minute on the Sunday evening sermon at the house church we assist on Sunday evenings. I found myself in a situation where I needed to dedicate some time to lesson preparation instead of personal research. On top of that my wife came down with the same condition so I was cooking, cleaning and changing nappies as well. Quite a hectic weekend!) Looked at 2 different grammars to investigate the usage of 'eis' in the new testament. Moulton stated that Acts 2:38 could either be translated "because of" or "with a view to" DEPENDING ON YOUR DOCTRINAL BIAS. (Paraphrase). Dana and Mantey (well known baptist gramarians) state that 'eis' is used over 1700 times in the New Testament. Yet they could only quote 2 possible places where this should be translated "because of" -- Acts 2:38 being one of these (sorry, cant remember the other right now). In the writing of Luke (Luke and Acts) this usage only occurs once. This puts serious doubt on the usage to me and looks like a case of a grammatical rule being created to support a pre-decided doctrine. Unconvincing to say the least. As I have mentioned before (I think), there are two aspects to Salvation. The important part is God's part. When explaining God's part it is not always necessary to mention Mans's part (Belief/repentance, baptism). For example I have no problem with Acts 4:12 which explains that salvation is in no one else but Christ. That is not talking about belief or faith either! I started writing something on Friday and don't recall whether I ever completed and submitted it -- Friday started getting crazy. The gist of what I wanted to say is that just like Abraham had to sacrifice Isaac, to prove his faith, so in a sense is baptism a proof of our faith. Popular doctrine says baptism is a symbol of salvation already received. I think it is more a symbol of a person's faith (as per your own comments on James 2). I believe baptism and belief are essentially tied together. In the same context as Romans 5:1-2 we are told in verses 6, 8 and 10 what this is about. Christ's part in salvation was done BEFORE we were saved. Romans 6 gives a very detailed account of the process -- Baptized into Christ equals Baptized into his death v3. Baptism equals burrial v4. New life comes AFTER death and burrial therefore AFTER baptism. I am trying to not over-strees the importance of baptism but IT IS ESSENTIAL. It is something that we have to do when we believe. We are doing a course on personal evangelism for some of our newer members at the moment. The brother who is conducting the course commented that he has almost never converted "Bible Schollars". Can we be deceived by preconceptions and doctrines we have grown up with. I believe so and of course am in the same boat. My belief structures are also influenced by my own background, experience and training. But I do try to keep an open mind. If you are right and I am wrong, I pray God will forgive me and help me see the light. I pray He will help me to keep a 'love of the truth'. I pray the same for you and all others on this forum. I think I'm right, and you think you are. We can't both be right, but we could both be wrong. The only chance we have is to seek earnestly for the truth. In Christian Love My prayers are with you Tim
33	What does baptism consist?	1 John 5:6	Tim Sheasby	23307
	Unlike most members of this forum, I believe that baptism is an essential part of God's plan of salvation. It does not save in and of itself (As the Roman Catholic church teaches) but at the same time, according to James 2:24 we are not justified by faith alone either. Our actual salvation derives from the redeeming blood of Jesus but water baptism is a symbol of our death to self and sin rather than a symbol of our resurrection and new life (Romans 6). The gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We have to go through those same steps spiritually and those steps are belief and repentance (death), baptism in water (burrial) and then we rise to walk in newness of life. Tim Sheasby
34	did the wine from the water make you dr	Bible general Archive 1	Tim Sheasby	22841
	Actually, to take this one step further, if grape koolaid did exist it might not have been able to ferment at all. Your point on fermentation is well made. The only way we can have grape juice available today without freshly squeezing it yourself is by pasteurising and preserving -- which in itself changes the substance. A friend of mine tried fermenting store bought grape-juice and found that it just went mouldy, not alcoholic.
35	Per 2Thes 2:3 isn't the rapture postrib?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22840
	Still theorising and studying. If the man is the Pope as has been suggested by a good friend of mine, then has he not set himself up as the world head of the spiritual temple of God, the church? Man, the more I think about this the more I think my friend may be on the right track here. Tim
36	anti-christ revealed before rapture?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22834
	This puts an interesting slant on our debate about the work of the Holy Spirit in the "is baptism necessary" debate. In the church of Christ we believe the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit ended (as opposed to the "indwelling") by the end of the first century AD. If the antichrist is the earthly Pope then this would be in line with your timetable of events above. My version: 1. Tribulation (Matt 24) 2. Stepping aside of Holy Spirit (2 Thes 2:6-7) 3. Second coming (1 Thess 4:16-18) 4. Final destruction of the antichrist (2 Thess 2:8) As Nolan says so say I also -- This is my interpretation but this is a current theme of study of mine. Tim
37	Per 2Thes 2:3 isn't the rapture postrib?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22833
	Re-Posting: I did a posting on Matthew 24 that deals with my personal view on tribulation. I don't use the term rapture personally but assuming you are referring to the second coming then I believe this to be post tribulation since I believe we are already living in post tribulation times. Tim
38	Per 2Thes 2:3 isn't the rapture postrib?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22832
	I did a posting on Matthew 24 that deals with my personal view on tribulation. I don't use the term rapture personally but assuming you are referring to the second coming then I believe this to be post tribulation since I believe we are already living in post tribulation times.
39	anti-christ revealed before rapture?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22830
	From another posting of mine with slight revisions: One of my brethren believes the man of lawlessness to be the antichrist to be the Pope had an interesting argument based on his own linguistic studies. He said that the word antichrist is made up of the name Christ prefixed with the Greek preposition 'anti'. Anti, he said, does not mean 'against' in Greek but rather 'in the place of'. Since the Pope claims to be 'The Vicar of Christ' (or the one who stands in the place of Christ) he points out that it logically follows that the Pope is the antichrist. Further to this he expressed the idea that the "beast" of Revelation is the Catholic Church. I do know that they no longer preach the gospel as it is written in the Bible and believe the Pope has authority to supercede the Bible. The Pope has, according to their doctrine, the power of spiritual life and death. Is this not 'anti'-in the place of-Christ? Is this not the man of lawlessness? The jury is still out for me as I study further but if this conclusion is true then the man of lawlessness has already been revealed a long time ago. In Christ Tim Sheasby
40	What is an apostate?	2 Thess 2:3	Tim Sheasby	22829
	From Eastons Bible Dictionary: HERESY From a Greek word signifying (1) a choice, (2) the opinion chosen, and (3) the sect holding the opinion. In the Acts of the Apostles (5:17; 15:5; 24:5,14; 26:5) it denotes a sect, without reference to its character. Elsewhere, however, in the New Testament it has a different meaning attached to it. Paul ranks "heresies" with crimes and seditions (Galatians 5:20). This word also denotes divisions or schisms in the church (1 Corinthians 11:19). In Titus 3:10 a "heretical person" is one who follows his own self-willed "questions," and who is to be avoided. Heresies thus came to signify self-chosen doctrines not emanating from God (2 Peter 2:1). From: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia APOSTASY a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. In Christ Tim

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