Results 1 - 8 of 8
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: nwells Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The question exists in Paul's Theology | Rom 9:18 | nwells | 138279 | ||
Actually Angel I am not having trouble accepting God as a loving God - you were not reading my question correctly - I see no problem in God hardening Pharaoh's heart - Pharaoh and everyone else in the world deserves to go to hell. Pharaoh will not be able to say in the end at judgment that God made him do it - for it was after all Pharaoh's greatest desire at the time to not follow God's command (but I say that God was the first causation and Pharaoh was the second - it was God who hardened Pharaoh to not follow His command and Pharaoh in responce to God's hardening desired to not follow God's command. Pharaoh was not outside the control of God but did exactly as God had him do - God is clean and is not the source of evil or sin but He hardens men in such a way to be sure of their damnation and yet men still bare full responcibility for their actions). My question is one of our view of how God has mercy and how God hardens people. You said: "it is our choice that free us or condemn us!" So I will ask you: Can a fallen man (meaning a sinner, before regeneration) do anything to please God? If he can - what can he do? Second, you said: "God has no need for us to perish (eternal damnation in Hell)" If God did not want people to go to hell, would anyone go to hell? Did the world turn out differently than God wanted it to? Meaning that sin entered the world and Christ was needed to redeem men? Would God do things differently if He created a second world? Or is everything as He wanted so that He would receive the most glory possible from his creation? Thanks for your time :) Oh one more thing - You said: "we, in good intent, fall out of our Faith.." This is one of the many reasons thinking that the choices men make are above God is dangerous - For if our faith, our choice to believe in Christ comes from us that means we can quit believing. But if our faith is a gift from God then, if we are truly His - no one and nothing will ever take us away from our beautiful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If He is the author and the finisher - where is man in that? He started and so He will complete what He has started in me - I will not fail, because He started and so will work in me to become more like Him until the day I see Him face to face. |
||||||
2 | explain the details about grace and law | Bible general Archive 2 | nwells | 138276 | ||
Third Part: Gal 5:18-26 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. NASU I close with this: Phil 3:4-15 If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; NASU "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, " (Romans 8:3, NASB95) "“ Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden , and I will give you rest . “ Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart , and you will find rest for your souls . “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light .”" (Matthew 11:28-30, NASB95) "“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. " (Galatians 2:20, NASB95) |
||||||
3 | explain the details about grace and law | Bible general Archive 2 | nwells | 138275 | ||
2nd part: AND YET: Rom 12:1-2 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. NASU What about the moral Law? What about the Ten Commandments? First we need to make a distinction between the moral law and the judicial law. For if a man murders he is to be put to death on earth – the second part is judicial the consequence for his actions, but the first part is moral for if the people of God do not carry out the second part, meaning if Israel does not follow the judicial act that God set in place, the murderer is not home free even if no one ever finds out he murdered someone. Read Deuteronomy 28 "And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh that sanctifies them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them," Ezekiel 20: 11-13. Provision was made in the law to cover sins, yet the sins were not taken away – each year the same type of sacrifice was given and yet it would never make those for whom it was sacrificed, perfect – otherwise they would no longer need to sacrifice for their continued sin because they would have stopped sinning, having been made perfect through the sacrifice. Heb 10:11-12 11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, NASU And in verse 14 Heb 10:14-18 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, 17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. NASU While the commandment was on the outside men were unable to follow – but He has written His Law upon our hearts and has forgiven us. All of the law has been fulfilled in Christ – we no longer need to follow it. But we are not lawless, for we have the Law of God written on our hearts – so as to do it. |
||||||
4 | explain the details about grace and law | Bible general Archive 2 | nwells | 138274 | ||
I will do this in parts: Are we under the Law? No. All those who walk in the Spirit, are no longer under the Law but under grace So is the Law worthless? Do we through it out like trash? No. Before we go any farther I want to make myself clear: The Law is not trash, it is not to be thrown away it is not blotted out. It is the Word of God and is not to be viewed as secondary in importance to the New Covenant Scriptures, for without the Old the New would be like a man with only half a head – half a head means dead. As I speak let us have this mind: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17, NASB95) There are three general categories of Law in the Old Testament Judicial Ceremonial Moral Judicial Law is the Law that held the penalty for certain actions: But we see that Jesus did not carry out the judicial law when confronted with the adulterous woman because the theocracy that existed does not exist any more – Israel is not led by God (nor is any other nation). Ceremonial – this includes sacrifices and things done in order that you might be kept clean and know when you are unclean and for how many days etc. before you were able to worship God again. Hebrews chapter nine gives us a beautiful picture of how the earthly is a representation of the heavenly. There were regulations of how to worship and there was a temple in which to worship. In the temple there was the holy place and behind the veil there was the Holy of Holies. Preists were always in the outer part, but only once a year did the high preist enter the Holy of Holies and in order to enter and not die he had to bring blood with him which he offered for his own sins and for the sins of the people that were committed in ignorance. Now this is what the author of Hebrews says: "The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. " (Hebrews 9:8-10, NASB95) This was a picture of things to come – it is a symbol – showing that it was yet unclear how one would become right with God so as to be able to go to the holy place at all times – for it was only once a year and each and ever time blood must be brought – therefore it was imperfect, not able to clean the conscience of the worshiper – pointing to the fact that there would be a time of reformation. And that reformation has come: "let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. " (Hebrews 10:22, NASB95) We have been declared clean by God – all of us who believe on the name of Jesus Christ therefore may draw near to God even in our bodily uncleanlyness – for it is written: Lev 13:45-46 45 "As for the leper who has the infection, his clothes shall be torn, and the hair of his head shall be uncovered, and he shall cover his mustache and cry, "Unclean! Unclean!' 46 "He shall remain unclean all the days during which he has the infection; he is unclean. He shall live alone; his dwelling shall be outside the camp. NASU A man with leprosy was unable to come into the temple to worship, cut off from the people. But now, even though we are a leper we can come to God and worship in His presence. BUT – this was all a shadow of what was to come, though we need not clean ourselves outwardly: 1 Cor 11:27-31 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. NASU Therefore the picture in the Law – one must be clean before God is shown to be true and we must examine ourselves before Him, is our conscience pure? The sacrifices fall under this category as well – they were a picture of Christ – the need of bloodshed for forgiveness of sins – He came and He paid, once for all (Heb 9:12) – I think we have seen that – there is no need for sacrifice any longer – |
||||||
5 | The question exists in Paul's Theology | Rom 9:18 | nwells | 138259 | ||
I would agree with you - that the vast majority of the Scripture narrative deals with God's wrath towards those who do evil. But I would argue - Romans is not a story or God speaking directly to a group of people that He is going to wipe out or punish but it is a book about God and the way God works. So if in Romans it says that, "...it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. " (Romans 9:16, NASB95) Then we should look at the rest of Scripture through this filter - That God is the reason things happen the way they do - not because men made a choice to do them, but that God wanted it that way. The argument that if there is one molecule outside of God's control than God is not God, rather that molecule is. Because that one molecule might prevent Jesus from coming back - therefore it would be more powerful than God and God is no longer God because the very definition of God is one who is in control of everything. I do not negate man's responsibility - I only am pointing out that if God has nothing to do with those being damned than the question Paul raises would never be raised - for if Pharaoh went to hell because he hardened his heart then we say that is justice - but Paul is saying that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart and so he went to hell - and then he raises the question - "If God did it, why does Pharaoh go to hell?" Do you see my reasoning? The question exists in Paul's Theology - should it not come up in our own? |
||||||
6 | Why does God still find fault? | Rom 9:18 | nwells | 138258 | ||
Freedom of the Will is from what I have read and heard a great book - I agree with your synopsys - We do what we desire most at the moment. I sin because I desire to sin more than I desire Christ. And when I don't sin, I do so because I desire Christ more than I desire sin. I totally agree that God must intervene for a person to be saved - my question was more along the lines of those who are not saved - those who are hardened: "What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; " (Romans 11:7, NASB95) I agree that God is unable to sin - but my question I guess is more about us as evangelicals protecting God from the problem of evil when, at least is seems that in Romans 9, Paul protects God in a different way - not by saying God let's evil men do what they do and so making them guilty - but that God is working, hardening them, making sure of their damnation - using them for His own Glory - and he is not guilty, but they are guilty for God can do anything He wants to with his clay - God has skill and knowlege that we do not have and so God does things we cannot understand. I am not advocating that God is guilty for our sins - but - that based on Paul's argument, that question should come up - Why does God still find fault? I guess it was more an observation - that most of the teaching in the church about God's role in hardening would never cause someone to ask why God still finds fault with us - rather we never ask that because we understand we did it, and God didn't make us do anything - but is that Biblical? If it is Biblical then why did Paul give us the question? |
||||||
7 | More on God's role | Rom 9:18 | nwells | 138257 | ||
You are right when you say the Bible does say that Pharoah hardened his own heart as well as God hardened it. But I would point attention to this verse: "The Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. " (Exodus 4:21, NASB95) Many times people say, "God was able to harden Pharoah's heart becauase Pharoah did it first and so God just did it a little more but only because Pharoah did it first. If Pharoah had not hardened his heart first than God would not have been able to harden Pharoah's heart and Pharoah still be guilty for his sin." But I see one problem with that idea: God said He would harden Pharoah's heart from the very beginning and we can see God was at work in every hardening (whether by Pharoah or by God) as we see here: "Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had said." (Exodus 7:13, NASB95) The key part is, "...as the Lord had said." So I grant that Pharoah hardened his own heart, but I also see that God was behind the whole situation - Pharoah had a hard heart because God willed him to have a hard heart. Thus comes again the question that is raise not by me - but by Paul in his writing: "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” " (Romans 9:19, NASB95) Remember this is not my own question - but I would say that - if Pharoah hardened his own heart, apart from God, meaning that God only hardened Pharoah's heart AFTER Pharoah had made the choice that this question cannot be raised - because Pharoah earned it - Pharoah earned the Judgement of God. But the question is not - "Hey, why does Pharoah get what he deserves?" The question given is, "Hey, why does God find anything wrong in Pharoah, because God was the one who hardend his heart?" So I guess what I am wondering is if any one else sees the connection or if I am alone in my thinking. |
||||||
8 | Does God "pass-over" or does He "harden" | Rom 9:18 | nwells | 138239 | ||
For your consideration: I wanted to ask a question about the understanding of God’s giving of mercy and God’s hardening with a view to this verse: "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." (Romans 9:18, NASB95) I have heard people say this - referring to what is said in verse 13 (that God loved Jacob but hated Esau, not based on their work, but based on God’s choice) that they rest in the fact that their belief system is correct because of the question that always pops up. If God did actually choose to love Jacob and to hate Esau unconditionally - that is not based on anything they did or would do but wholly on God’s good pleasure then we say, “Hey, God can’t do that because that’s not fair!”, which is the exact same question the Apostle Paul gives in saying: "What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!" (Romans 9:14, NASB95). If God chooses one just because he wants to we feel it would not be just because, for example in this situation, no matter what Esau did God would not love him because God had already chosen to love Jacob and hate Esau and so basically Esau had no hope - and so we say - HEY THAT’S NOT FAIR! Does that make sense? I am not going to go into the depravity of man here - though I do believe man is fallen and has no ability to come to Christ on his own - as Christ said - believing is not our work but God’s, "Jesus answered and said to them, “ This is the work of God , that you believe in Him whom He has sent .” " (John 6:29, NASB95) And farther: "“ No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day . " (John 6:44, NASB95) Paul then expands on his argument in verse 18: "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." (Romans 9:18, NASB95) This is why God is not unjust - I won’t talk about why God is not unjust long - only to say if there are two criminals sentenced to death and a governor pardons one, the governor is not unjust but is merciful - both deserved to die one received justice and the other received non-justice, that is , mercy. So God can show mercy to one and justice to another - but the word here that Paul uses is not justice - it is hardens. Many would say this hardening referred to is a “passing over” by God (which I think is a very good use of words since they are borrowing words from the Exodus story of which Paul refers to in talking about Pharoah). But if that is the case - that God passes over some (passive) and shows mercy to others (active) then there is no question to raise against this position - all we need to think about is whether or not God is fair and we already know He is beyond any doubt. But there is a question raised by Paul - because he knew his readers would have a question for him - because they understood the word was not “pass over” but “hardens”. The question is this: "You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” " (Romans 9:19, NASB95) To restate - If God hardens, making sure those who He has not shown mercy to go to hell (meaning that God commands them to follow but then actively causes them not to follow) and then on the flip side makes sure that those He has chosen to have mercy on go to heaven by actively working in their lives to make them follow His Word then this question comes - WHY DOES ANYONE GO TO HELL? HOW CAN GOD JUDGE ME, OR ANYONE FOR THAT FACT BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE THAT MADE ME DO WHAT I DID. I SINNED BECAUSE HE MADE ME DO IT - OR I BELIEVED BECAUSE HE MADE ME DO IT. Does that make sense? That question does not even enter the mind if in fact God “passes over” people - is that not true? Tell me what you think - Does God pass over (passive) or does God harden (active)? |
||||||