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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: justanotherchristian Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 99098 | ||
You fellows and ladies are all missing the point. The same "authority" may come along next week and delete another scripture text - one that you care about. Both The Amplified and the new Spanish translation by Lockman have 1 John 5:7 in the text (even if qualified by a note) - that is a far cry from REMOVING it from the text and explaining why it should not be there at the bottom of the page. Did Lockman get it right with the AMP, or with the NASB? ....and if, they found "superior evidence" AFTER the AMP, then why did they put 1 John 5:7 BACK into the main text in their new Spanish version? justanotherchristian www.apostasynow.com |
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2 | why is this thread "restricted"? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 99097 | ||
viewer wants to know why this thread was "restricted"????? | ||||||
3 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98826 | ||
Some translators are engaged in a conspiracy to show themselves wiser than those that went before - and you cannot patent a Bible translation unless it varies significantly from one that is public domain. IT'S DA MONEY - | ||||||
4 | KJV "inspired"?? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98793 | ||
send me an e-mail and I will send you the Translators to The Reader preface..... jac@jacglobal.net |
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5 | KJV "inspired"?? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98792 | ||
send me an e-mail and I will send you the Translators to The Reader preface..... jac@jacglobal.net |
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6 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98775 | ||
I am not concerned about whether the KJV capitalized every pronoun for Deity - in any case, it was not a conspiracy to demean God, Psalm 35:27 justanotherchristian www.apostasynow.com |
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7 | WILL YOU ADD TO, TAKE AWAY FROM, OR LEAV | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98758 | ||
Mat 23:24 (KJV) Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. I do not accept the translation you quoted, for it changes the sense. It is obvious that Jesus was denouncing them for making molehills out of mountains and mountains out of molehills - but the translation (if it can be called that) you quoted has Jesus denouncing people who actually pay attention to what they read, hear and say. It seems to have been but a short step for you - from objections to insults. Why? I was only explaining WHY I went back to the KJV - and I already declared that the KJV could use some updating of the language and some clarification. The NASB pleases me well in some places where the KJV is obscure - but I cannot and will not acknowledge as "auhority" any Bible that simply deletes entire sentences from the text. Why do you make it a crime, that I answer promptly? SOMEONE suggested that I might be guilty of "adding to the word of God" if I acknowledge 1 John 5:7 as genuine and canonical - well that sets up a very interesting contest for us all to take sides on.... We have tacitly agreed that whoever either ADDS TO or TAKES AWAY FROM the Word of God is in DAMNABLY big trouble - as in "damnation"..... OK - I agree. Rev 22:18-19 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. SO - at the risk of DAMNATION, make your choice! I say that 1 John 5:7 IS part of God's Holy Word, and it was there before I got here, anyway. When I was converted to Christ - 1 John 5:7 was in the Bible that I began to read. I am serenely confident that 1 John 5:7 BELONGS in God's Bible because God put it there. SO NOW it's your turn to DECLARE - Well, that's enough. Galatians 4:16 justanotherchristian www.apostasynow.com |
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8 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98712 | ||
Dear Friend, You are missing the point. If you simply "entertain" yourself with religion in the comfort of your favorite chair, it's no big deal whether 1 John 5:7 should be acknowledged as "canon" or not. BUT IF you are actually living your life and making your decisions in such a way that IF you "got it wrong" you are sure to "crash and burn", then every jot and tittle in the Bible is life-and-death crucial. We need to know WHAT God wanted us to respond to, and we need to know that we understood it rightly. Take for example John 6:27 and Matthew 6:19-34. Some folks will be making crucial, life determining decisions based on what they think those words and phrases mean. Some - in the hope of obedience that is vindicated by God, will NOT buy life insurance nor wll they save up that retirement fund for their old age. If they were WRONG in what they thought those scriptures meant, there is a sore and sad reality waiting for them just a few existential moments away. When you are "betting" not only your "eternal condition (after this life)on the COUNSEL of the Bible - but when you are "betting" your temporal health and welfare on that counsel, it is infinitely crucial to BE RIGHT in your perceptions. To cast a doubt upon the veracity and authenticity of 1 John 5:7 at this stage of the game, is to bring the whole Bible into question. WHO KNOWS what "new discovery" will prove that this word or that passage was not authentic? This is the classic case of the "slippery slope" syndrome. For the unavoidable REALITY is that IF 1 John 5:7 is not inspired, authentic and trustworthy, we also do not know WHAT ELSE will sooner or later be changed or deleted or added. Can I beseech you to go to our main web-site and read just chapter 1 of THE GREAT DREAM? (only 5 letter sized pages long)? Tell me - are you willing to let Acts 8:37 and the doxology at the end of The Lord's Prayer go down the same hole as 1 John 5:7? AND WHERE does this thing end? Say The Lord's Prayer aloud to yourself - but just leave off these words: *For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.* Does it not feel and sound WRONG? Matthew 23:14 is also gone along with 1 John 5:7 - no problem? Have you really thought this ALL THE WAY THROUGH? WHAT is it, in your present life, that is dependent on your understanding of something in the Bible? Is there anything in your present life that is at risk if you "got it wrong"? What might that be, that is at risk if you misunderstood the Bible (in this present life)? Are you risking your health, or your money, or the approval of your friends and family on the idea that you understood something from the Bible that was CONTRARY to the common wisdom that ALL MEN share? WHAT you decide about 1 John 5:7 has infinite ramifications for your life: for the entire Bible is truly on trial with just this one question about this one verse. 1 John 5:7 is part of the Bible I am depending on to guide me through this sick, sad, treacherous and dying world. If I concede to let 1 John 5:7 go, then I cannot but wonder about what's next. It sure would be easier to "not be ashamed" of the teachings of Christ if we could just delete that annoying and disconcerting little section of Luke 14:26-33 (especially that SCANDALOUS verse 26). Someone wanted to tell me that Psalm 68:11 COULD BE translated to "women singing and dancing" or some such thing. I already knew that - but is that really where we want to go? Should we take a "could be" and make that cancel out an "always was"? This is THE DIMINISHING GROUND OF THE ABSOLUTE, when the longer and harder you look, the more faint everything becomes..... 2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. justanother(needs a reliable Bible)christian jac@lacglobal.net www.apostasynow.com |
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9 | What problem? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98701 | ||
I do not remember precisely - but it does occur in some Latin tetxs before 1000 - write to me and I will send you the extended article on 1 John 5:7 jac@jacglobal.net Just Another Christian, and, "US" 1 John 4:6 Main site front page www.apostasynow.com The Great Dream Book: http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html |
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10 | KJV "inspired"?? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98700 | ||
Makarios - I say (and believe) that theKJV is "inspired" in the lesser sense of the word; very much like when we say that a sermon or a piece of music was "inspired". I do believe that God superintended the translation and revision process for THIS VERSION PARTICULARLY so that it would NOT mislead anyone. When and if you look into the principles of translation that were set out for the 47 men who did this, you will see unique features in the production of the KJV, that are not present in any other translation. The "rules" that King James laid out for them effectively PREVENTED the translators from heavy-handed editorializing in their choice of words. You would be well informed to read the "TRANSLATORS TO THE READER" preface, which is rarely included in any edition of the KJV. I have that on file and can send that you in an email, if you will write to me at jac@jacglobal.net ONE MORE THING - the last people to get their hands on the KJV translation were the poets and linguists... this accounts for the majesty and grandeur of the text, and this also prevented the translators from having a free hand to "bend" the text to suit their preferred doctrines (as much as they would like to). The only other Bible version that was done in a fashion SIMILAR to the KJV is THE NEW ENGLISH BIBLE - and if you are one to compare translations, you will see that the NEB is the most 'eloquent' of all the modern versions. I loved it and read it a lot for a long time - but still, they JUST HAD TO include the damnable errors of Westcott and Hort in that translation, so I cannot give it as a gift or recommend it to anyone but someone who would understand these limitations and weaknesses. I would NEVER give the NEB as a gift to anyone that I did not know intimately. I would really like though, a KJV/NEB parallel Bible - that would be cool! We have a NEB Annotated Study Bible w/Apocrypha here, and everyone takes turns reading it. I still like it - but I hate those notes on the page. The people who composed those notes were out to PROVE that no Bible can be trusted. Just Another Christian, and, "US" 1 John 4:6 Main site front page www.apostasynow.com The Great Dream Book: http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html |
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11 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98696 | ||
Hank - I live "just up the road" from you in beautiful Crossville, TN | ||||||
12 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98691 | ||
THE GREAT DREAM was a "commitee" product. I did write the first draft, which was 1/3 shorter, but countless reviews and proofreadings brought out weaknesses and deficiencies in the text. When we got done plugging all the rat holes and polishing the language, we ended up with the 472 page book that is now in print and being read all over the world. The 1611KJV uses true Elizabethan English, which is very hard for the average person to understand. "Thing" is "thynge" in the 1611, and then, the type face of the 1611 leaned more towards the artistic at the cost in clarity. The 1611 also included the 15 books of The Apocrypha between the OT and the NT (another fact that sorely embarrasses the superstitious KJV only crowd). I have confronted and refuted many of these "KJV only" partisans with the fact that what they love to call the "Original 1611 KJV" is REALLY the 13th revision out from 1611. They actually use the 1769, and it drives them crazy to have to face this and answer to it. YES, I wrote to the Lockman Foundation, but I do not expect any kind of responsive answer - rather - just a dismissal I did rather like the NASB a lot - I wish I could quote it as authority, but I cannot lend credibility to a Bible that butchers the text and throws other verses right out. IF you're looking for an alternative transliteration which conforms closely to the Greek and Hebrew without replicating the inverse grammar forms of the Greek - I recommend the Darby translation. Of you want to see a simple and typical example of WHY I cannot replace my 1769KJV with the NKJV, just go to Psalm 17:13-14 and compare. There is a WORLD of difference there... and the KJV is right. I will use the NKJV with younger children, but with my 11 and 14 year old kids, I use the 1769KJV. I sometimes send the NKJV to the Kenyan Brethren (but only because it's the only version available in a certain study Bible that the Kenyans like) The most "honest" modern translation is the Amplified Bible (IMO), and an Amplified/KJV Parallel is a great reader - BUT (despite their claims), the Lockman people DID editorialize heavily in their translation of the OT Prophets. Spend a little time in the OT Prophets in the AMP Bible and you can see their (particular) brand of Dispensationalism leaking out. I believe that GOD Himself is presently voting for the 1769KJV as THE STANDARD ENGLISH BIBLE. Psalm 35:27 Just Another Christian, and, "US" 1 John 4:6 Main site front page www.apostasynow.com The Great Dream Book: http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html THANK YOU Lockman Foundation for providing this forum! Now please fix up that NASB so I can recomend it! |
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13 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98690 | ||
The faith of Abraham proves the point I made in the previous post. Abraham believed God for a single and particular promise, and this FAITH was accounted unto him for righteousness. Now think about it - Abraham had no "Gospel doctrines" - all he did was affirm (strong in faith) that one thing that he got from God (about being the father of many nations) - and yet, THAT was accounted as SAVING FAITH! This can only be so IF that faith of Abraham in that singular matter was evidence that Abraham was "in touch" with the whole and entire revelation of Jesus Christ. Here we see that faith in any bonafide particular of God's revelation IMPLIES faith in all the rest of what God chooses to reveal. Liken it to a piece from a jig-saw puzzle that will only fit with a certain puzzle - it will NOT match and be harmonious with any but a certain puzzle. In this case, Abraham's simple faith in that one promise stands as testimony that HAD HE KNOWN MORE from Jesus or Peter or Jude - he (Abraham) would have embraced that knowledge as well, because it would be "just more of the SAME" from the One God. 2 Timothy 2:15 is MEANINGLESS unless we can settle on a fixed, reliable and unchangeable record of what God would "tell" the whole human race. I have a Dutch Brother (Holland) who translated THE GREAT DREAM into Dutch for publishing. Along the way, he checked every single scripture quotation from the KJV that I used in the English version of THE GREAT DREAM - not only against the Dutch - but he also parsed every central word in the Greek and Hebrew JUST TO MAKE SURE that I took no scriptures out of context and to make sure that I did not MISdefine any words. He says there was NOT ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE!! In other words, his Dutch Bible says and sounds in Dutch EXACTLY like the KJV says and sounds in English. I just communicated with our Kenyan Brethren - they say that the Bibles in Kiswahil and Swahili they have over there BOTH have 1 John 5:7 in the text and it reads just like the 1769KJV. God took care of this business! Psa 119:89 (KJV) For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. justanotherchristian jac@jacglobal.net www.apostasynow.com |
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14 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98689 | ||
God preserved His Word in the 1769KJV for this time. There was a 1611 KJV (and I have a copy) and it does contain language forms that are SO outdated that it is nearly inscrutable. What we commonly read as the KJV is #13 in a series of major and minor revisions of the 1611 KJV, and none of those revisions affected ANY doctrine in the least way. If the world were to last another 1000 years and language should change so much that even the 1769 revision was inscrutable, then God would providentially provide us with yet another updated revision to replace the 1769KJV. I wish it would happen, now. As to the other part of your question - there are foreign equivalents to the KJV available now in most major languages. and again - where there is no equivalent to the KJV, that is where the population is so isolated from the endless chatter of apostate Christendom that they do not NEED such a rigidly codified record of the Word of God to protect The Saints among them from being decieved by slick and clever false prophets and teachers. In the Middle Ages, people who could not read Latin had no access to any Bible at all - but the custom was to provide a reading from the Gospels at every mass - and if that soul grabbed onto that bit of gospel and took it seriously, that soul would be adequately guided into all connected truths. Every part of The Word of God is like a part of a single Person or Object. If you touched Jesus' hand, you touched Jesus Himself. Jesus said that the bare grain brought forth fruit after it's own kind - and so that little snatch of Gospel Truth (if not meddled with or bent to fit something) will extrapolate itself out into all other Gospel truths. That man in the Midle Ages was NOT subjected to the torrent of disinformation that we are, and thusly he was left with hs conscience, the Holy Ghost, and the few people he had fellowship with. We (today) are being POUNDED from every direction by a flood of DISinformation which all conspires to convince us that the Bible is either a sham, or simply cannot be understood. The 1769KJV is just the latest faithful and reliable update on the language of revelation that we have. How much do you really know about how we got the KJV and how we got the other versions? Will you suggest that the more centuries we are REMOVED AWAY from the originals, the more likely we are to identify what WAS the original? It is unfortunate that MOST ALL of the KJV ONLY crowd are barely more than superstitious people - but that does not change the underlying reality - that the KJV Bible has in the past and still today accompanies the most potent and sober Saints. I am NOT a "KJV only" person - I am a "KJV PRIMARILY" person. I will and do consult other versons, and somethimes (rarely) will quote them. But the practice of "version jumping" is the spirit of infidelity. Each one OF US ought to say "You can correct me and reprove me with the language in THIS Bible" and then pick a version. I remain publicly subjected to the language of a single version - the 1769KJV. If you "get me" with a quote from the 1769KJV, I do not jump off to another version whch better suits my fancy. I allow for definitions and clarifying commentary (and it's somethimes necessary) - so no, I do not think that the language of the 1769KJV is inviolate: but I will and do nsist that the *contents and message* of the 1769KJV IS inviolate. While the 1769KJV may be weak or obscure in some places, it is (at least) not misleading. I can show you numerous places where the language needs to be tidied up or updated. But I simply CANNOT CANNOT DARE NOT AND WILL NOT offer as "authority" some Bible that rejects the doxology at the end of the Lord's prayer (and all the other deletions which I absolutely ABOMINATE). The new text replaces the words "Day of Christ" with "Day of The Lord" in 2 Thessalonians 2:2. That "little"(?) change makes a mountain of difference in the implications of that verse. I have the "death bed confession" of one of the (very) men who instigated and sponsored the creation of the NASB - and IS HE EVER SORRY for what he did! He tells us to go back to the KJV and fears for his fate! The Lockman Foundation does not want you to see this! E-mail me at jac@jacglobal.net and I will send that "confession" to you. |
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15 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98667 | ||
yes, we had God's Word before 1769, but as humanity became more organized and mass propaganda became possible, God saw to it that His Word was ever-more codified and available in order for The Saints to have something to refute the superstitions, traditions and errors that unsaved men would produce. As the power and means of disinformation increased, the ready availability of The Word of God increased. Today, because of instantaneous communications, heresy and lies can be sent all over the world in a flash. To counter that, God has probvidentially made access to religious knowledge cheaper and easier for all. Only TODAY (in this time) could persons like you and I actually do a "search" through the 5000 pages of The Church "Fathers" to locate information on certain subjects or to see how they used and interpreted the Bible. The Vulgare was the equivalent to the KJV in the world for 1000 years until the Reformation. There has always been ENOUGH of God's Word readily available to Christians for them to have something to regard as a standard to which all policy and practice could be compared. The KJV is NOT perfect: but is IS better than any of the other English translations - see here that God promises to KEEP His own words safe and intact througout all history - Psa 12:6-7 (KJV) The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. and...... Psa 68:11 (KJV) The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it. God promised to preserve and protect His word and see to it that it was adequately available to all generations. Just Another Christian, and, "US" 1 John 4:6 Main site front page www.apostasynow.com |
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16 | Why would you include 1 John 5:7? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98634 | ||
WARNING re: 1 John 5:7 Rev 22:18-19 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. now....... did the God who inspired these words KNOW that the Revelation would eventually be part of a bigger book? I say, YES. I insist that the warning applies: especially when you consider that 1 John and The Revelation were both penned by the same human writer. justanotherchristian jac@jacglobal.net www.apostasynow.com .....have a look at our "missions" program! KENYAN ministries we support http://www.jacglobal.net/kenyans/index.html |
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17 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98632 | ||
Radioman - what you said is barely worth responding to. Of course Paul did not have the KJV, and you are DEAD WRONG about the differences between the texts. There are 5000 differences, and some of them are major. The new text also delets Acts 8:37, and the removal of that little "problem" opens the door for the infant baptizers to claim legitimacy. Leave Acts 8:37 in, and their claim is illegitimate. Try reading John 8:25 in the New English Bible and then in any other version and see what you get..... and yes, that affects doctrine, to. You must not have read through the string of posts - for I admitted that any translation was better than no Bible at all. I am just saying that the 1769KJV is the most reliable to NOT mislead, and my judgment is not superstitious: it is the product of education, prayer and research. I barely glanced at the KJV from 1973 until 1990, and I even published a tract against the KJV in 1973 or thereabouts.... I am sure glad that none of those are still around! justanotherchristian jac@jacgl;obal.net www.apostasynow.com |
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18 | What problem? | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98630 | ||
1 John 5:6-8 (KJV) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. I have removed the challenged text - look at how it reads. In order to avoid this embarrasing "gaff", some translations remove the entire verse, but even then, you end up with an awkward expression. The bare fact (admitted) that there is a 4th century quotation proves that the verse did not originate in the 10th century (as some claim). I have a more extensive article on why 1 John 5:7 cannot be excluded without harm to the Bible that I can send to you, but it is too large for this forum message service. Please write to me at jac@jacglobal.net and I can e-mail the article to you (it was not written by me). BY THE WAY - the same "source" that deletes the Johanine Comma also delets the Doxology from the Lord's Prayer..... this is definitely one of those situations where if you give up that inch, you are going to lose the mile... justanotherchristian www.apostasynow.com |
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19 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98587 | ||
Colin----- it was when I was going to "go public" with my opinions that I thought it necessary to make a decision about a Bible version to quote and submit myself to PUBLICLY. I truly believe that ANY version is better than none - and once, God showed me in a dream that even the NIV (which I loathe) was "workable". But are you willing to lose, not only 1John 5:7 - but also, the doxology at the end of The Lord's Prayer? The "critical" text excludes the doxology.! There comes a time in which matters are serious enough that the Lord does not leave us to "grope and speculate" about which way to go: and I am convinced that the Lord wants me to HONOR the 1769KJV above all other versions and submit to it as authority. Please send me your e-mail address and I can send you some material on this matter - and please consider reading just chapter 1 of HE GREAT DREAM (book) on this matter (on web-site, below). Thanks for taking the time to read and answer me. Just Another Christian e-mail jac@jacglobal.net Main site front page www.apostasynow.com The Great Dream Book: http://www.apostasynow.com/tgd/index.html new Dutch language site http://apostasy.info/ Highly recommended reading from 1912: War On The Saints, by Mrs. Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts; the definitive address to the Pensacola and Toronto "revivals" http://www.apostasynow.com/wots/index.html Matheeno! New Educational Math Game for children - developed specifically for homeschool www.matheeno.cc NEW! www.jacglobal.net Just Another Christian Global Business Network FRIENDS to our faith may inquire KENYAN ministries we support http://www.jacglobal.net/kenyans/index.html |
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20 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | justanotherchristian | 98547 | ||
Dear Hank and All..... PLEASE.... I have done my homework on this matter and on this verse. It is directly quoted in the early 4th century by some latin writer in Spain (cannot remember the name just now) -Polannasius? (Sp). It is alluded to in apparent inference a few times in the Pre-Nicene "Fathers" - and then, there is a peculiar dangling participle left hanging off the end of the shortened quote of verse 7 that does not match up properly with the beginning of verse 8. Can't you see what is happening here? THE WHOLE BIBLE's authenticity is called into doubt by such things as this. EVEN the Vulgate and the Douay (taken from the Vulgate) have this verse, intact. This verse was never seriously challenged until Westcott and Hort..... think of that.... I will be glad to receive person e-mail at jac@jacglobal.net you can visit our main web-site at www.apostasynow.com |
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