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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: iverson Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74219 | ||
For information on how I arrived at the context argument of Apostles and Prophets used together to mean the 12 disciples, please refer to the Lexical Aid to the New Testament in the Key Word Study Bible word 4396. The Lexical aid uses resources from “A Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament” By John Parkhurst, 1767; "Biblical-Theological Lexicon of the New Testament” by Hermann Cremer, 1895; “Synonyms of the New Testament” by R.C. Trench, 1876; and “An Exposity Dictionary of the New Testament Words” by W.E. Vine, 1940. Thank you for the discussion. You have helped me examine, on a deeper level, what I believe. Your fellow Berean |
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2 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74203 | ||
In 1 Corinthians 14:29 the word prophet is used alone which has a different meaning in the context. There, prophet means one who is prophesying. In Eph 2:20 and 4:11 Apostles and Prophets are used together in the same context that refer to the 12 disciples and those were commissioned by Jesus. They didn’t have successors. Sometimes when words are used together the context of the words changes. For example, I could say, “He’s the tallest and he’s a basketball player.” Given the context we would know that I would be talking about the tallest basketball player. However if I were to say, “He’s the tallest player.” I may be talking about someone else. Using Apostles and Prophets in the same context is a qualifier for the persons that delivered the New Testament. Their roll, as an office in the church, is not needed. But what the Biblical Prophets and Apostles delivered as scripture will stand for all time. This foundation is what the church is built on. Jesus is the cornerstone of the foundation of the Body of Christ. Why isn't there the office of Jesus today? Because Jesus stands once for all in all power and authority in the Word. Just as the divinely inspired scriptures that were delivered to the Apostles and Prophets. Paul is telling the church in Ephesus that they are supposed to use what the Apostles and Prophets (along with Jesus) said and start equipping that saints and start building up the body of Christ. Paul is telling us how to equip the saints for the building up of the Body in Eph 4:11. First read and accept the scripture (apostles and prophets) then preach to the world (evangelists) while studding the Word of God and shepherding the sheep (pastors and teachers). This is how you equip the saints. This is how to build the Body of Christ. Paul stresses this because he knew that people would come along and say that they were speaking for God. But if the saints are equipped, “they will not be tossed to and fro by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine.” (Eph 4:14) I would suggest that any who come today proclaiming to speak for God as Apostles and Prophets, are the ones who are creating the “winds of doctrine.” This was going on during the time of Paul and has been going on ever since. If they are not the ones creating false doctrine, then whom is Paul talking about? The only people at that time that created doctrine where the Apostles and Prophets. Consider this disjunctive syllogism; there either is or isn’t true Apostles and Prophets today. Paul says that there are Apostles and Prophets yet that we are not to be carried away by winds of doctrine. What doctrine won’t carry us away? The doctrine that was delivered through the biblical Apostles and Prophets once for all. So who are the Apostles and Prophets Paul talking about in Eph 4:11 when referencing the equipping of the saints? The biblical Apostles and Prophets. The biblical Apostles and Prophets laid the foundation for the church with normative revelations of the Word of God. The church is in the processes of being built up. So the foundation is complete. The Apostles and Prophets are done. Apostles and Prophets, as directed in Eph 4:11, are rolls in the church that have been fulfilled though the giving of the Word. Therefore there are no Apostles and Prophets, besides the biblical ones, which are true today. |
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3 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74124 | ||
They are simply the persons in charge of equipping the saints and the Building up of the Body of Christ. Not that you were asking, but a Note on “The Five Fold” ministry: In Eph 4:11 the Greek bible (the original Greek manuscripts) only had four "ministries" being referred to; "pastors and teachers" are connected by kai -- a copulative -- and probably should be hyphenated (pastor-teachers), and definitely should be considered together in union as representing two aspects of the same office. In Greek, the passage reads: Kai autos edoken tous men apostolous, tous de prophetas, tous de euangelistas, tous de poimenas kai didaskalous. Note the copulative kai ("and") between poimenas (pastors) and didaskalous (teachers). |
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4 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74123 | ||
What Paul is saying in Eph 4:11 is that the teachings of Apostles and Prophets, and Jesus, are what the church needs to become one body, the Body of Christ. At the time, Christian Jews would not accept the Gentiles who claimed to be followers of the Messiah unless they were first circumcised and obedient to the Law of Moses. What Paul is pointing out in Ephesians is that Genitals are to be considered brothers in Christ, on an equal footing. Paul is stressing what the Apostles and Prophets have said through the Word of God, which was later called the New Testament. So when Paul is talking about Apostles and Prophets in Eph 4:11 he is telling the Church in Ephesus that they should use the teaching of the Apostles and Prophets as foundation for the Church. That is what you get from the context of Ephesians. Paul in not talking about an office that future Apostles and Prophets would hold. |
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5 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74114 | ||
Thus the role of Apostle and Prophet was temporary. They were eyewitnesses to the risen Christ that had normative relations of God’s Word. Once the Word was delivered, the foundation was laid for the Body of Christ. Note the requirement for the said positions: The following shows us the requirements of the replacement for Judas: Acts 1:21-26, "Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." The apostles claimed to be eyewitnesses: Acts 5:32, Peter and the other apostles stated, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him." Therefore, all the apostles were eyewitnesses to Christ and his Resurrection. Luke 1:1-4, "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to use by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the Word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." Another proof that an apostle must be an eye witness: 1 Cor. 9:1, "Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" Paul was the last apostle to see Jesus. 1 Cor. 15:8, "Then He [Christ] appeared to James, then to All the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." We can conclude that since Paul was the last to see Jesus, that the apostles didn’t have successors. Remember that Paul used the example of building a building so that we can understand this. And Paul makes it very clear what the jobs of the Apostles and Prophets were in Eph 2:19. Paul never says anything about them having another job to do. We can’t just assume that they have another job just because it suits us. Paul also makes it clear that the body of Christ needs to be built up. It is obvious from Paul's analogy that the foundation first had to be laid in order for the body of Christ to be built. And in Eph 2:19 Paul says that it has been laid. Therefore, once the foundation is laid, you can't continue to lay it. You must start building on it. That is what is happening now. You can't lay a foundation on a building if it's in the process of being built. That is why Paul uses this analogy. |
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6 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74109 | ||
In Eph 2:19-20 it says, “..but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.” Clearly Paul is talking about biblical Apostles and Prophets. In Eph 4:11 Paul again uses the words Apostles and Prophets. Why is it that we now think that Paul is talking about Apostles and Prophets that will arise throughout Church History? The context of Paul’s letter suggests that he is talking just about biblical Apostles and Prophets. And since their job was to lay the foundation for the church, their job is complete. Teacher, Pastors, and Evangelists are called to build on that foundation. | ||||||
7 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | Not Specified | iverson | 74090 | ||
Are the offices of Apostles and Prophets still needed today? | ||||||
8 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | iverson | 74106 | ||
Are the offices of Apostles and Prophets still needed today? | ||||||
9 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | 1 Cor 1:1 | iverson | 74100 | ||
Are the offices of Apostles and Prophets still needed today? | ||||||