Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: MrHappyface Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? | Rom 9:21 | MrHappyface | 61476 | ||
So, to follow up, I have decided I don't particularly want to be a Calvinist, or an Arminian (though apparently my beliefs coincide with his more so than calvins). In fact it was wrong of me to even address this topic to Calvinists, You know what this all reminds me of? "I follow Paul" "I follow Apollos" "I Follow Cephas". Plus I was an idiot for bringing this up on a forum, you would think by now I would have discovered the complete and utter uselessness of the Internet as a means of Discussion. Not only does it make people hide behind an on-line persona, it results in a merry-go-round of misquoted scripture being refuted with misqouted scripture. | ||||||
2 | Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? | Rom 9:21 | MrHappyface | 61472 | ||
Whoa! Well with the response I have been given I think I see the futility of this argument. My only conclusion is this. Any argument where by both sides are 'defending' their position for the 'faith', when in reality they are defending their belief frantically (I speak of both sides) because they feel that if they are incorrect, they are somehow 'bad'. An Arminian (which is apparently what I am, though I have never read anything by him) or a Calvanist (Someone I also have no knowledge of) will look at one another and think, if I believed what THEY believed I know how I would act, so how can their beliefs not negatively affect their walk? We defend our beliefs because if, God forbid, the other person is right, where does that leave us? Truth (and I am borrowing heavily from a website I found here) is not the sum total of all true things, it is a person. Jesus says that he is the truth, and the truth will set you free. Not, it should be pointed out, our relative understanding of the truth, yet this is how we behave. If the 'truth' of Arminianism (Am I even spelling that right?) or Calvanism means we usurp another truth, that we are undivided in Christ, then what value is it? And yet, being human, we allow it to divid us, resulting in many denominations and arguments. I am not saying it is wrong to discuss things, or that some beliefs are clearly incorrect, I am just suggesting that our motivation for argument is a little different than we think. |
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3 | Sovereignty and Free-Will | John | MrHappyface | 61334 | ||
But what of John 6:44 - 45? Jesus says "No-one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day". Okay, God must draw us out our boxes, as you call them, but what then of the following verse? "It is written in the Prophets: 'They will ALL be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me." And boxes? IS each man in a box? I don't think so, God created Man as a corporate identity, he created Adam and Eve, and through them all sin entered the world, and we lost out corporateness. But through one man, Jesus Christ, our corporate nature is restored, when his people are brought to completeness, then again we will be living in complete harmony with each other and God. In the mean time, through Jesus, the word in our hearts, we are used by God to reach others. The fields are ripe for harvest but the labourers are few, not the fields are ripe for harvest but what does it matter anyway, cause they cannot be reached by any means. Every decision we make clearly affects people around us, to say otherwise is ludicrous. We are in relationship with these people, if our actions and decisions had no affect on them at all, we wouldn't still call it a relationship. in fact that is the very definition of relationship. How then, can we have a relationship with God without him allowing us to choose things? And why would he punish us for sins he made us commit? Back it up with scripture (and both sides of this debate can clearly do that), say what you like to me, but this is not something so difficult to understand it makes our heads swim, its something so obviously incorrect it makes our heads swim. I don't think God is changing things that happen as they happen, based on Man's decisions, God is outside of time, he created time, clearly he isn't running around going "oh no Oh no what will happen next". But just as I don't blame God for decisions he sees me making now, I don't blame him for decisions he sees me make in the future. God isn't a puppet in our hands through my view, he is a loving father who willingly allows us to make decisions. It doesn't mean he doesn't have the power to take over, it simply means he doesn't. |
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4 | Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? | Not Specified | MrHappyface | 61333 | ||
I am wondering if a calvinist could explain to me why God, if all things are ordained by him, would judge people? what I mean is, if God made us all, and God chose everything we would do, why did he give us the 'illusion' of freewill, and why would he judge us for things he made us do? I can understand it if I except God delegates Authority to man so that we may choose to love him, then I can see why all the suffering and death and pain are worth it to God, because some will "choose" to love him, But if in the end we cannot choose, why did he not simply make us perfect in the first place? God is outside of time, so to me words like foreordained, and foreknew, are meaningless in the context of God himself, though they obviously have meaning to man. |
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5 | Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? | Rom 9:1 | MrHappyface | 61345 | ||
I am wondering if a calvinist could explain to me why God, if all things are ordained by him, would judge people? what I mean is, if God made us all, and God chose everything we would do, why did he give us the 'illusion' of freewill, and why would he judge us for things he made us do? I can understand it if I except God delegates Authority to man so that we may choose to love him, then I can see why all the suffering and death and pain are worth it to God, because some will "choose" to love him, But if in the end we cannot choose, why did he not simply make us perfect in the first place? God is outside of time, so to me words like foreordained, and foreknew, are meaningless in the context of God himself, though they obviously have meaning to man. |
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6 | Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? | Rom 9:21 | MrHappyface | 61343 | ||
I am wondering if a calvinist could explain to me why God, if all things are ordained by him, would judge people? what I mean is, if God made us all, and God chose everything we would do, why did he give us the 'illusion' of freewill, and why would he judge us for things he made us do? I can understand it if I except God delegates Authority to man so that we may choose to love him, then I can see why all the suffering and death and pain are worth it to God, because some will "choose" to love him, But if in the end we cannot choose, why did he not simply make us perfect in the first place? God is outside of time, so to me words like foreordained, and foreknew, are meaningless in the context of God himself, though they obviously have meaning to man. |
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