Results 1 - 13 of 13
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: LionsDenSurvivor Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 94124 | ||
To be quite honest with you, my whole purpose in this thread has been to try to defend the WoF movement and our beliefs. The truth of the matter is this: Kenneth Hagin is a modern day prophet of God and my spiritual grandfather (he is my spiritual father’s spiritual father). Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland, et al. are all highly respected and esteemed men and women of God. I have the utmost of respect for them and their teachings. I will speak all day long about the things that I have PROVEN TO MYSELF to be true in the Bible. However, now we are getting into an area which I have not studied and which I do not recall my pastor ever having taught on. Keep in mind, though, that I have only been going to this church for a year and that most of that year was spent just trying to get a grasp on what it means to be a Christian. I have been a Christian since I was eight years old and I am now twenty years old, yet I have never really identified with who I am as a Christian. In the past year I have been totally changed and have learned who I REALLY am . . . who my spirit is. If you want to talk about and learn more about your recreated spirit and what it means to be born again then I will talk to you. However, if you simply want to engage in a meaningless theological debate, then I will forego that headache and look for someone who wants more of God. This is not directed at you, DL5, but to all who wish to simply squabble over whether or not the WoF view or their view is right. If you're hungry for more of God and for some real Biblical truth as far as who you are in Christ and your authority as a believer is concerned, then please feel free to seek me out or gracefull or DL5 here. But if your purpose is simply to lambast the WoF movement and the people involved in it, then I urge you in all Christian love and patience to just stop while you're ahead and keep your mouth shut. You have no idea what you're talking about. :) In Christ, LDS |
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2 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 94093 | ||
The only place that I have ever heard that particular doctrine is here on this forum. The doctrine that I have been taught since I was a child and that I am continually taught in my church is that Jesus, the Son of the Living God, came to earth as a man and defeated sin, death, sickness, poverty, and the grave for EVERY believer and EVERY person who is willing to become a believer. As far as Jesus going to Hell and all the like . . . I've never heard that. What I hear every Sunday, every Wednesday, week after week is Romans 10:9-10, that if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. All you have to do is believe that Jesus is Lord and say it with your mouth. That is what I have been taught. I have also been taught that Jesus not only defeated the devil and every demonic power in heaven and on earth, but He beat them "no contest" and then paraded them around for the whole world to see (Col 2:15). But as far as the act of "becoming" a Christian, it just takes believing in your heart and speaking it with your mouth. That is what I have been taught because that is what the Bible says. In Christ, LDS |
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3 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 94085 | ||
Not all in this movement are so blindly accepting all of the teachings. I think that you base your perception of the WOF movement off of bad sources. In a nutshell, this is what I have learned in the WOF church that I attend (This is, of course, not a comprehensive listing of the teachings of WoF, but it is just a few of them as relates to this topic.).: 1. I have been recreated as a new creature in Christ and all of the old spiritual problems that I had are now gone and everything about my spirit has been made new. My spirit has been recreated in the image of Christ. I am dead to sin, spiritually, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. (2 Cor 5:17 and Romans 6:11) 2. Because my spirit is new and made in the image of Christ, I press on in life to make my flesh line up with what my spirit has already become. (Phil 3:12-15) 3. Because I am a new creature in Christ, I have authority in the earthly and in the spiritual realms. I have power IN CHRIST, not of my own account. (Eph 1:20-23 and Eph 2:4-10) We are seated in heavenly places with Christ and we have been ordained to do good works on the earth by His authority. 4. Because I have authority in this life, I AM NOT A VICTIM!! I do not have to let the devil beat my brains out every single day! I am VICTORIOUS in Christ. (2 Cor 2:14) 5. One way to exercise my authority is by speaking in faith. This does not mean that the words themselves have any inherent power or that if you speak a certain way or by a certain formula you’ll get whatever you want. NO, that is DEAD wrong. SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD!! (Matt 6:33) That is what I have been taught! If you seek God, blessings will overtake you (Deut 28). If we do not desire HIM first and foremost and if we do not walk in HIS LOVE toward us and let that love flow through us toward others . . . we shall be as powerless as the heathens. It is not a doctrine of seeking wealth or health or whatever. It is a doctrine of seeking God FOR God. But it INFORMS you that you WILL be blessed. In the end it all comes down to motive. God knows your heart. If all you want is more money, then you know what . . . you’ll get money. Now, you may get what you want, but you may not want what you get. It is MY belief (not WoF teaching) that God will sometimes give us what we want just so that we can see how empty it is. Of course there will be those churches which blow it out of proportion and teach what is not biblical! That happens in denominational churches all the time but no one attacks them and calls them a cult and all the like. I know that I have had my eyes opened about SO much since joining my church. I know that GOD put me there, not some random bit of chance and circumstance. God speaks to me and tells me which teachings to accept and which to throw out. We are not about ONLY prosperity or ONLY healing or ONLY speaking in tongues or ONLY faith. This morning our pastor spoke on God being a god of MERCY. He spoke of how it is only by His MERCY that we have power and authority. It’s because of His MERCY that we are even alive. We do not exalt ourselves above the status that God has given us. We are sons and daughters of the Living God, yes indeed, but not by birth or by right . . . we have been granted that status by MERCY and we walk in that mercy by faith. I am fully content to live a live of poverty, sickness, and seeming defeat if it would further the kingdom of God. I say seeming defeat because there’s no such thing as being defeated and in the will of God. You may look defeated and even FEEL defeated, but God will ALWAYS cause a victory for you (2 Cor 2:14). I am happy at my church and the Holy Spirit has witnessed to me in numerous ways that HE put me here. Would God put me in a place that has false teachings? Certainly not. Would I be drawing ever closer to God if I was in a place that is cursed by God for having false teachings? (2 Peter 2) The answer is no. I will testify that, as far as MY church is concerned, the doctrines of WoF are biblical and powerful. They have saved my life and my Christianity. In Christ, LDS |
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4 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 94059 | ||
You told me to read Hebrews 11 as a start for seeing what faith really is and what it really does and all the like. Well, I have and I did and this is what I came up with: verse 3: AMP “By faith we understand that the worlds [during the successive ages] were framed (fashioned, put in order, and equipped for their intended purpose) by the word of God, so that what we see was not made out of things which are visible.” Let’s use a little bit of reasoning here. If God fashioned, put in order, and equipped the worlds for their intended purpose BY HIS WORDS, and we have the Spirit of God living on the inside of us . . . hmmmmm. Doesn’t it stand to reason that we should at least have SOME of that creative power lurking in our recreated spirits? If we are being made into the image of God then shouldn’t we also be sort of “coming into” the power of God? I’m not saying that I’ll be able to speak a coffee cup into existence out of thin air, but shouldn’t our words at least have some power? I know that I have discovered that words DO have power. The Bible even says so. Read these verses: Proverbs 6:2, Proverbs 18:21, James 3, Matthew 12:37, Numbers 14:28, Hebrews 4:14. All of those verses and chapters emphasize the power of the tongue. That verse in Numbers is especially freaky because God told Moses flat out that He would do to the people of Israel exactly as they had been saying. Proverbs 6:2 says as plain as day that your words can put you in a snare and a trap. In the Basic English Bible it says “the sayings of your lips have overcome you”. That’s pretty straight forward. Now, as far as us being able to speak things into existence out of thin air . . . you’re right. It’s nonsense. We can’t create something out of nothing on our own. But God can cause what we need to be created for us or to be brought to us. Take the woman in 1 Kings 17 who never ran out of meal or oil because she acted in faith and gave food to Elijah. Then there was the Shunammite woman’s son (also 2 Kings 4). Her son died and her husband thought that it was nonsense to go get Elisha and she responded “It will be alright (AMP)”. Then, when Elisha saw her from afar, he sent his servant to ask her some questions, among which was the question “is it well with the child?” and she responded “It is well”. She never said, “well, maybe I’ll get the man of God or maybe he’ll come and do something . . . “ her faith moved her mouth to say that IT SHALL BE WELL. IT WILL BE ALRIGHT. IT IS WELL. She didn’t say, “You lied to me! You said I would have a son and now he’s DEAD!” No, she spoke in faith and her faith was what moved her. So then we see that faith speaks and moves. According to James 2:17, faith without works is dead. According to 2 Corinthians 4:13 the spirit of faith believes and speaks. Here Paul is talking about speaking the word of God to the believers at Corinth to admonish them, but it still applies to us in other areas of our lives. If I have faith that God will provide me with money to buy a new car, I’m not going to start saying that the money isn’t coming and that I’ll be driving around a clunker for the rest of my days. NOOOOOOOOO . . . I’m going to say “Yes, my God WILL supply ALL of my needs according to the RICHES of His glory in Christ Jesus!” Now, before you start calling me down for that, look at Hebrews 11:6. AMP “But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the REWARDER of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out].” I do not think that faith is some meta-physical force which can manipulate creation. However, I do know without a doubt that words have POWER on earth and in the spiritual realm. How did Jesus overcome Satan when He was tempted? By the word of God. We can speak the word of God from the Bible or we can speak what we know to be true. I know that God is going to give me a wife. I’m willing to be single and could be quite happy as a single, but I know that God is going to bring me a wife. So I do not whine and complain about it. God’s bringing me a wife. Until she gets here, it’s just me and Him, but I still speak expectation. It works. Not by Copeland’s testimony or by Hinn’s testimony or by anyone else’s testimony, but by MY testimony. You can believe what you want. I know what is truth and I have tested it. I appreciate your concern, but I am quite happy to live my life by the Word of Faith. In Christ, LDS |
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5 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93894 | ||
This will be very brief as I am very busy with getting ready for my new semester and the like. The more you trust God and the more you believe God and His word, the more He is able to work in your life. If faith is believing and trusting God, then it really can be a force to move things in our life. In Hebrews 11, it DOES talk about the "heroes of faith", but I want you to note that it talks about how they did it BY faith. It's kinda like traveling. You go BY boat or BY car or BY plane. In the same way, their faith was what carried them into the blessings of God. LDS |
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6 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93641 | ||
So then, tell me, in all honesty . . . what exactly do you see the Word of God telling us to do when we are sick or needing money or needing some sort of emotional healing? What do you see the Word saying is necessary to heal us in our souls when we are disappointed or when we get our hopes up and they are smashed into a million tiny pieces? Please, since you purport to know, tell me so that I can do that. I am not being facetious in the least. The teachers that I have sat under in the WoF church have given me keys to break the chains that bound me for so long. I have a clearer understanding of the Scripture than I have ever had before. I am no longer depressed or sick. My finances still lag behind, but they are coming around even now. If you can give me something that tops what I have been taught, something that will build up my faith and encourage me, something that will give me a fresh revelation of God and of who He is and of what He intends for us . . . then by all means, post those scriptures and I will gladly read them and abide by them. Till then, LDS |
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7 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93572 | ||
I finally have a comrade in all of this. Well . . . besides Jesus, that is. Thank you and I apologize for making a fool out of myself by posting in anger and reactionism rather than posting in love. Please forgive me. LDS |
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8 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93571 | ||
Here's Part II: Let’s look at scriptures relating to financial prosperity (all in NKJV): Galatians 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 24:7) who is Christ. What promises is Paul talking about? Well, let’s look back in Genesis and see what they are. Look in Genesis chapter 12. That’s a few of them. But since we are children of Abraham through Christ, we have all of the promises of God that the children of Israel had as descendants of Abraham. Let’s look in Deuteronomy 28: 1-14. All of those blessings have passed on to us, too. Proverbs 10:22 - “The blessing of the Lord makes us rich and adds no sorrow with it.” Deuteronomy 8:18 – It is the Lord who gives you power to get wealth. Romans 8:32 – He who spared not His OWN SON but delivered Him up for us all How shall He not WITH HIM (Jesus) FREELY give us ALL things? That’s pretty cut and dry. God will freely give us ALL things. Hebrews 11:1 – Now faith is the substance of things hoped for. NIV - Now faith is being sure of what we hope for NASB - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for AMP - NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses] NLT - What is faith? It is the confident assurance that what we hope for is going to happen. CEV - Faith makes us sure of what we hope for BWE (Bible in Worldwide English) - If people believe God, then they know they have the things they hope to get. DARBY - Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for One way that I’ve had the traditional KJV version of it explained to me is that faith literally produces the spiritual matter to create whatever you have faith for. Tell you what, read Matthew Henry’s commentary on Hebrews 11:1 . . . it’s a real eye opener. Moving on . . . A few scriptures on happiness (all in NKJV unless otherwise noted): Romans 14:17 – “17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” If we’re heirs to this kingdom, then I’m sure we must be righteous, and full of peace and joy. Matthew 13:44 – “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.” Apparently, the kingdom of heaven, Jesus’ kingdom, brings joy. Matthew 25:21 – “His lord said to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.” We see this passage as a depiction of how God will someday reward us, right? Enter into the joy of your lord? Apparently, there’s joy to be found with the Lord. Luke 2:10 – “Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.” What were the good tidings of great joy? Why, Jesus the Christ, of course. John 16:24 – “Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full” You will receive that your joy may be full. I think that’s pretty self explanatory. Jesus wants our joy to be full and He wants us to ask in the authority (or the name) of Jesus for pretty much whatever we want. But if we don’t keep Him as the focus, then we get nothing. Just as God commanded the Israelites to have no other gods before Him, He has commanded us in Mark 12:30 to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. He goes on to say that this commandment, coupled with the command to “love your neighbor as yourself” fulfills all the law. Acts 13:52 – “And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit” Acts 20:24 – “But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.” Finish my race with JOY. Galatians 5:22-23 – “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” Joy is a fruit of the spirit. I just have to believe God that it’s mine. I have to trust Him that His word is true. You don’t think faith grows? It’s grown in me and Paul says that believers are “living epistles”. I will testify to the power of faith and that it DOES grow. I only hope that you will read this and see that it is the will of God for you to be healthy, wealthy, and happy. I know that I haven’t covered faith that much, but I intend to do so in a later post. Till then, LDS |
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9 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93570 | ||
This will be the first of a two part post. Please bear with me. First, John Reformed and everyone else who has read my last post, I must apologize. When I wrote that last post I was reacting instead of presenting a clear view of the Scripture written in love for the reader. You see, this teaching that you are calling “false” has empowered me and made me a better Christian than I ever hoped to be. It has grown my faith in God to levels that I never thought possible. It has lifted me out of a TEN YEAR depression that I thought would never go away. I applaud gracefull for saying what I have desired to say and for saying it with more love than I did. I originally had quite a long post which I intended to submit which would have more than proven that God intends for us to be healthy, wealthy, and happy. But I accidentally deleted it somehow. Keep in mind, though, that those in the Word of Faith movement who are TRULY teaching what the Word says will not teach that these are the goals, but rather, blessings of God upon our lives for following hard after Him. My focus is God. I want to do His will and I want to do it in grand style. In other words, I don’t want to live my Christian life crawling to Heaven. My biggest question before I got involved in a WOF church was this, “Who cares if I’m going to go to heaven when I die? Who cares if I’ll be happy THEN? I’m miserable RIGHT NOW!!” No one ever told me how to, in essence, take control of my life. But the key to that is that I’m not taking control of my life. Every day I voluntarily place my life and my every step into the hands of God. But it’s not like I don’t know what God will do with my life. He tells us in His word. Here are a few scriptures about healing (all in NKJV): Isaiah 58:6-14 – if you read it in context, God it talking to the Israelites about their disobedience and wickedness in regards to the fast, but He tells them that if they obey Him and use the fast for what He intended (verses 6 and 7) then “Your HEALING shall spring forth speedily” Jeremiah 33:6 – God is speaking of the people of Israel and of the houses of Israel and he says “I will HEAL them and reveal to them the abundance of peace and truth.” Malachi 4:2 – “But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With HEALING in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.” Note that not only does Jesus bring healing but also prosperity . . . because I’ve never known a fat calf that didn’t have more than enough to eat ;-). Matthew 4:23 – “And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and HEALING all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.” Jesus also said that He came to do the will of Him who sent Him, that is, God. John 5:19-23 “19Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, BUT WHAT HE SEES THE FATHER DO; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. If you look at just that one passage, you can clearly see that is says that Jesus only did on earth what He saw the Father do. Then it reiterates it by saying “for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” Jesus healed so many people that John says in John 21:25 that if you were to try to write them all down that he supposed the volumes it would take to write it all would fill the whole world! So, if Jesus came down and was doing the will of the Father on earth and He was CONSTANTLY healing people then it must be the will of God Himself for people to be healed, right? But what about those people who have believed and still aren’t healed? Let me tell you what Jesus said to two blind men whose desire to be healed was so great that they, though blind, followed him into a house and stayed with him until he healed them. This is what He said in Matthew 9:29 “According to your faith be it unto you.” Believe it or not, a LOT of the problem in our lives stems from our own lack of trust in God. Do you believe it? Do you keep believing it? Satan comes but to steal, kill, and destroy. If he can steal your faith, or destroy it so that you don’t believe God any more then you will surely stay sick or stay broke or depressed or whatever. End of Part I |
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10 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93306 | ||
No, you're trying to sharpen your own opinion. I've told you what the Scripture has to say and yet you refuted what I said. The very nature of this post is accusatory and belligerent. The very first post started out with "A question for the false teachers . . .". You see what I believe and what I have shown you the Bible says as false. I will let you believe that it is false. I know what the Word says. You think that faith for healing, finances, and happiness is nonsense. I say that you are ignorant of the Word of God and that you are being deceived. I have used my faith to make my finances grow and I have used my faith to heal my body and keep it healthy. My faith in God alone is what brings me the greatest joy. So you just keep on believing what you believe and I'll stay healthy, wealthy, and happy through FAITH. LDS |
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11 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93293 | ||
You are seeking to prove that you are right and that people who believe the same as I do are wrong. For this reason, I will take my leave of you. I know what the Word says about faith and it has increased my faith TREMENDOUSLY. What you believe is biblically wrong. That's all I have to say. LDS |
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12 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93180 | ||
Keep in mind that I'm not trying to defeat you or your argument in this discussion. I am more concerned with what the Word of God has to say about it. If you are in this discussion simply to try to have a nit-picking philosophical argument, then I will take my leave of you. However, if you are truly looking for what the Word says, then I will gladly go with you on this journey. I realize that you are going from the NASB in your understanding of this scripture, but perhaps you should take a look at the Amplified translation of this scripture. He said to them, Because of the littleness of your faith [that is, your lack of firmly relying trust]. For truly I say to you, if you have faith [that is living] like a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, Move from here to yonder place, and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Faith is a "firm relying trust in God" and trust can and does grow. According to this translation of the verse, faith is also a living thing (like a seed). There is also such a thing as a spirit of faith (2 Cor 4:13) that can work in and through you. Look up 2 Thessalonians 1:3 where Paul thanks God in the Scriptures that their faith GROWS. It is evident in these verses that faith can and does grow and that sometimes your faith may not be big enough to tackle whatever problem you may be facing. As far as this particular verse is concerned . . . Even Jesus said that they couldn't cast out the demon because of the "littleness" of their faith. |
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13 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | LionsDenSurvivor | 93134 | ||
First off, before you start calling something a false teaching, be sure that you have researched it thoroughly :). I am one of those Christians who whole-heartedly believes that your faith has to be at a certain level in order for some things to happen. Why do I believe this? Well, it's because I have seen it at work in my own life. You can't expect a 10,000 dollar miracle with nickel and dime faith. Faith must be defined before we attempt to tackle this issue. Faith at its simplest definition is just acting like the Bible is true. A little more detailed definition would be that faith is believing and trusting God. When Jesus said that if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed you can move mountains, He was referring to the properties of your faith, not the size of your faith. A mustard seed is a very interesting plant. Its seed is the smallest seed (or one of the smallest seeds) on the planet, yet when the mustard tree is fully grown, it becomes just that . . . A TREE! Jesus was speaking of having an ever-increasing faith that will constantly be working to keep you built up and strengthened in the Lord. Romans 1:17 calls it living "from faith to faith". As though your faith were a set of steps which you can climb into the fulness of God's purpose for your life. Also consider that perhaps what you consider to only be a little bit of faith may really be a GREAT amount of faith. When you believe God, things start to happen that you never thought possible. But with God ALL things are possible. However, your faith must be built up to the point that you honestly believe that. Study the healings of Jesus and see how many times He told someone "Your FAITH has made you whole". I'm sure you'll be quite surprised. | ||||||