Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Godinus Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223870 | ||
Beja Do you remember my first post on this subject? "Excuse me but haven't these opinions everyone is voicing been argued for over 500 years don't they all come down to each one's own doctrinal beliefs?" You then made mention of "a divisive search for truth" that's sort of an oxymoron isn't it? Although I can agree to a certain extent there can be a divisive search for truth but only if the persons involved are starting from the same point of view. "unless two be agreed how can they walk together." Or with the same objective in view such as the clarifying of a scripture for better understanding of their mutually held doctrine. But if they are coming from diametrically opposed points of view it becomes what I have said where both parties come to the table with the truth in their possession with the viewpoint that the other doctrine is categorically wrong. So you see it isn't a search for truth as much as it is an espousing of the truth one already professes. Taking into account the discussion the four of us have had my original post was correct. There have been three that agree on a single doctrine "saved by grace through faith" and the discussion that has ensued has only been to show the forth as being categorically wrong. That is by definition "already possessing the truth". There have been no exchange of ideas or even a mutual investigarion into the others beliefs in a search for truth there has only been one in depth viewpoint expressed thus far where all the other posts have been nothing but an overwhelming condemnation of said belief. In order for this Utopian discussion to take place there has to be a mutual questioning of each of the opposing beliefs a willingness on both sides to say "I was wrong". But as you know the difficulty with this is that all beliefs are interlocked making it neigh unto impossible to lay down just one belief without destroying the integrity of the whole belief structure. But without a true openness there cannot be a search for truth between two opposing sides on a question. In illustration - - A person comes to Christ being without any belief structure he starts attending a church where he is indoctrinated into the belief "a person can lose their salvation" from that point on everything that he reads will reinforce that belief permeating everything he believes thereby building a belief structure where everything is interdependent on everything else. Knowing that "we cannot lose our salvation" how can we ever hope to show him his error we would have to tear down his whole house. Don't you think he thinks he is already following the truth and you are wrong? My point is you can't search for something if you already know where it is can you? To show you there are no hard feelings I do fully agree with at least one of your statements:-) "lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration." Have yourself a good Lords day Godinus |
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2 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223860 | ||
Part 2 CDBJ Coming to your last argument Ephesians 2:8-9 (AMP) 8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] Don't you see in your own choice of scripture v.9 "Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast." The works which are spoken of are the works of the law to us those are the dead works spoken of earlier those are the works where by a man try's to justify himself as worthy before coming to Christ. But let's move on to the works we are supposed to do You say it is by faith alone. Is it really? James 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. James 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God. James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. So the conclusion of the matter is. Yes we have the work of baptism but this work was ordained of God before the foundations of the world. The difference being this is not a work of the law whereby we seek to be justified by our works. It is not of ourselves. Yes we seek salvation through baptism because it is the extension of our faith unto justification of life. James ask's the question "if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him" Then he goes on through the rest of the chapter to expound on the fact that faith without works is dead he shows that Abraham and Rahab were justified by works being mingled with their faith. James uses them both as examples to us because they were not the dead works of the law but the works of God. Godinus |
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3 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223859 | ||
Part 1 CDBJ Acts16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Why did you neglect to mention that Paul did express that all the household were baptized immediately. Acts16:33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. You make this statement 1 "Anyone depending on their works by being baptized by water for salvation has actually destroyed their hope for salvation." 2 "Faith for salvation must be an “undivided trust” in what God did for mankind in the person of His Son Jesus Christ." This is the point where you are missing the understanding "Anyone depending on their works by being baptized" In order for this statement of yours to be true and fill the position of their works like you are saying then the act of baptism itself would have to come from their own head that baptism was something they could do in order to gain salvation but as you can see it was a mandate to the disciples from Jesus Himself. By that mandate it is showing that baptism is not in the realm of - - their works. Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Moving on we see that Paul says we have repented from dead works. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, By our accepting Christ for the forgiveness of sin we have ceased from our works. Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Take note that these two verses in Ephesians are the same as the one in Titus except the one in Titus shows us how this takes place. That through baptism we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. You can then see this work as you call baptism is something God through the Holy Spirit does not us because we have come into His rest the work of baptism having been ordained before the foundations of the world that we would walk in it. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Godinus |
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4 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223838 | ||
In your use of 1 Peter 1:3, he says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," How has God "caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," if not through baptism? Isn't this being born again which is spoken of the regeneration of baptism whereby the believer becomes united with Christ in the likeness of His death and his resurrection? It appears to say we walk in newness of life through baptism v.4 Rom.6:3-5 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, Sounding pretty salvific to me. Godinus |
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5 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223837 | ||
Beja What I am saying is you have a doctrine you believe clsx2 has his doctrine. Both seem to be mutually exclusive. Through this "divisive search for truth" concerning the subject now under discussion what would be the truth which you are seeking? My point being if you could be brought to the point of accepting the doctrine of clsx2 what else within your doctrinal belief structure would also have to change? Would you not concur that once a person has used wood, hay, stubble, in their building that there would be a grater likelihood that they would continue to use those building materials? The wood, hay, stubble being representative of false doctrine and thereby leading them to deception. There have been two definitive answers to the question "YES" "NO" they are diametrically opposed. I say answer the question as best it can be answered by each side then allow God through the Holy Spirit to impress upon the heart of the one asking the question which answer to accept. In the debating of these issues neither side ever changes their doctrinal belief is this because the search for truth isn't as high on the agenda as the defense of one's doctrine because both sides are coming to the table with the truth as they believe it to be so neither side in the debate is looking for truth per se they both already possess the truth it then again becomes a defense of doctrine. Godinus |
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6 | is water-baptism needed for salvation? | Eph 2:8 | Godinus | 223835 | ||
Excuse me but haven't these opinions everyone is voicing been argued for over 500 years don't they all come down to each one's own doctrinal beliefs? As long as it can be agreed that were all saved and that arguing doctrine causes division that then should be the end of it. Unless the deeper meaning of each one's respective doctrine says that anyone not believing their doctrine is a heretic (not saved) then the whole discussion takes on a whole new meaning. According to Mk.16:16 there is a two part understanding to salvation the believing part which would be the forgiveness of sins and the baptism part which would be our resurrection from the dead unto newness of life. In reference to 1 Pet.3:21 when Peter says "corresponding to that" what is baptism being corresponded to? Also could you tell me what the brackets in this verse are for? Godinus |
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7 | HELP! Having questions and no answers | Bible general Archive 4 | Godinus | 223830 | ||
The context of what you are referring to is, "God WILL" take care of all our needs, leaving us with only one responsibility, "To seek Him". Mat 6:31 31) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32) (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33) (BUT SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD), (AND HIS RIGHTOUSNESS); and all these things shall be added unto you. 34) Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. You can see from this summation of the chapter, it has been all rendered down to it's most important parts. Jesus was saying, God knows we are in a physical world, having physical needs, but don't you place these temporal needs first in your life, Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Jesus is telling us to seek, Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom for this is the will of God for our lives. Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Pro 2:2 2) So that thou incline thine ear unto (WISDOM), and apply thine heart to (UNDERSTANDING); 3) Yea, if thou criest after (KNOWLEDGE), and liftest up thy voice for understanding; Pro 2:8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and (PRESERVETH THE WAY OF HIS SAINTS). 1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Those were all the things Jesus was expressing to the people in Matt. 6. If we keep our eyes on our needs we have taken our eyes off of God. In doing so we are saying we will take care of the things that pertain to this life, and God can help us. When it is supposed to be all God, YEA YEA or NAY NAY not lukewarm. Christianity is not something we do in our lives, it isn't another aspect of our lives, Christianity is OUR LIFE! 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be (MADE ALIVE). Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless (I LIVE); yet not I, but (CHRIST LIVETH IN ME): and (THE LIFE I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD), who loved me, and gave himself for me. Godinus |
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