Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Fox Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150521 | ||
No offense, but I've read this already. Many times in fact. I will admit, this is what could be the strongest evidence against homosexuality in the bible. But yet... as I have said, this seems to be describing a “fall from grace” or something. They knew God, but then turned from him. But at least in some cases of homosexuality that isn't true. This does not explain Christians that struggle with homosexuality, since they obviously have not turned from God (would God just abandon his children like that?). In fact, from what I've found it seems that most Christians that struggle with homosexuality long to get rid of it and be closer to God. Often praying continually to be released from what they see as a prison (due to beliefs that it is sin). This seems to contradict Romans 1:28 “Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God...” So if I take Romans 1 to mean homosexuality is wrong, then is does not account for these people. On the other hand, if I take it to be talking of homosexual idolatry (which I have heard several accounts that such things were fairly common at the time) then it -does- fit the model that they'd have to turn from God first. (since they'd be putting some other god before Him). And it does speak of things that suggest idolatry in that passage. So, I'm not saying that this passage (Romans 1) is for sure not talking about pure homosexuality. Only that I see other equally plausible possibilities. Anyways, when I said “Can you point me to that then?” I was meaning that I want to know the reason. Why? If homosexuality is sin, what about it is so harmful? A problem I see with that here though, is that as far as I know, the Bible does not say. And the posts on this forum are suppose to remain Biblical. (I've also tried to find non-biblical proof of why it's wrong and have not found that either. One problem being that it's hard to trust the “evidence” from either side of the issue.) |
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2 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150512 | ||
I do see one little problem with this though. If homosexual sex is all these men were after, why did they not do so among themselves since there are obviously many of them? The only answer I see, is that it'd be due to lust, and this kind of uncontrolled lust would in itself make the act wrong. Thus making it impossible to tell if the homosexual nature of it had any bearing. Do you really think it'd have been ok if they did choose to rape Lot's daughters instead? I don't see Gen 19 as proof either for or against homosexuality. From what I can tell, it really doesn't say. |
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3 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150477 | ||
Hank said: “In Matthew 19:11 Christ was referring to celibacy but not enjoining it. To infer the remotest possibility that He had homosexuals in mind is playing the mother of all wild cards. ....” Hold up! Back up a bit. In Matthew 19:4-6 which WOS quoted, Jesus was talking about divorce, yet WOS inferred that Jesus had homosexuality in mind there. And I did not say that he was talking about homosexuals in Matthew 19:11, only that he clearly says that what he said in Matthew 19:4-6 is not for everyone. And if it's not for everyone then you can't use it to say that homosexuality is wrong. A plus B equals Good does not mean that A without B cannot be. In the same way, A plus B equals Good does not mean that A plus A or B plus B cannot be. Anyways, I wasn't trying to start some heated debate, I merely was sharing my belief on the issue. Beliefs I might add, that came from a great deal of bible study on the issue. (basically with the idea that, if this is such a terrible thing as I was taught, then I better find out why so I can better stand up against it.) And by the way, I don't know if you noticed but I never said the bible was not against it, just that if it is, it isn't “clearly” so as people always seem to say. |
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4 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150465 | ||
Can you point me to that then? If the Bible really is against homosexuality, then I want to know. | ||||||
5 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150464 | ||
Hank said: “The plain truth of the matter is that you are looking for, and perhaps think you have found, ways to explain away what Scripture clearly states “ This is completely untrue. I was brought up believing as I was told: that the Bible is against it. I accepted that it was wrong, however I never understood why. And it was only after deeply studying the issue, mostly through reading the bible trying to find out what it actually says about it, that I came to the conclusions I now have. I started with the conviction that it was wrong and I was looking for the proof and found none. Why is it that the position against it always comes to “The Bible clearly says...”. Like somehow I have to just take your word for it that it's clear. When the reason I don't think it is is because I could not find the proof I wanted to find. I could not find the reason why. If it were really as bad as it's made out to be, the reason should be clear. (kinda like with murder or thievery) Anyways, I don't want a heated debate about this. I was merely sharing my beliefs on the subject. Or is that not allowed? |
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6 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150453 | ||
True he did say that. But the issue he was addressing was divorce, not homosexuality. Homosexuals are a minority, and I'd think he'd likely be talking about the majority. In fact, just shortly afterwards he mentions how this does not apply to everyone. Matt 19:11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.” |
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7 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150447 | ||
Nope. Romans 1:26-28 Problem here is taken in context it's obviously taking about it as a result, a “fall from grace” or such. They knew God and turned from him, and then “because of this...”. This does not fit with accounts of people learning they are gay. Especially Christian accounts of such. They sounds far more like they felt pushed from God because they were gay, not the other way around like Romans 1 seems to say. So I must conclude that it's talking about something else. (a form of idolatry maybe?) Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 Problem with these is that the “homosexual” here is a word that is only used in the bible twice; here in these two passages. It's exact meaning is not really known, and as such it has been translated in a number of ways. And it seems a bit cruel to accuse people of sin based on something so uncertain. |
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8 | Homosexuality, sin or not? | Lev 20:13 | Fox | 150439 | ||
As for Sodom and Gomorrah, personally, I don't see how anyone can think the city was destroyed because of homosexuality. I've heard some argue that “know” used here does not means “to have sex with”, but honestly it doesn't matter. Even if the men of the city wanted to have sex with the men (angels) that were in Lot's house, it is clear that it would be a forced sex. That is to say, rape. Rape is sin regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual. So therefore I don't believe that whether homosexuality is sin or not can be shown or even supported by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Also note that the bible mentions the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah elsewhere, but never specifically mentions homosexuality among them.) Just because Jesus didn't mention it does not mean that it is not sin, however, it also doesn't mean it is (obviously). As for Leviticus, one thing that bothers me about that is that it makes no mention of women with women. Yet it does specifically mention women with animals. This makes me think there must be something else to it. (there are other things about the context that lead me to think this as well) I could go on, but to keep this relatively short, I have found nothing in the Bible that shows it to be “clearly against” homosexuality. In fact, I'm not convinced that the Bible is against homosexuality at all. |
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