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Results		Verse	Author	ID#
1	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38390
	Joe; EdB corrected me. So at this time I would like to first of all apologize to you and all others in this forum. It wasn't my intention to purposely mis-quoted anyone. I am not the type of person that would do that intentionally. So I am going to withdraw my presence completely from this forum God bless
2	John MacArthur an antinomian?!?	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38388
	EdB; My false accusation definitely was not made intentionally, so that leaves only one choice left. I don't intentionally try to misrepresent anyone. I will apologize and withdraw from the forum Thanks EDB God richly bless and keep thee zach†
3	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38383
	Joe; I had the book. I read the book, and saved the quote I found in it to a file I have. I no longer have the book.I donated it to a church library. If someone does have the book, I would appreciate it if someone who does possess the book would quote not only what I posted, but also all that precedes that quote, plus any information that comes after it, and then let us see for ourselves. No one here has actually posted anything from the book except for me. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee. zach†
4	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38379
	EDB; Could you please post in more detail the actual words from the book which you found? I would appreciate it. Thanks zach†
5	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38377
	kalo's The reason for my reply to your post was in response to a Charles Stanley quote that you posted. I took the liberty for not only you, but for other individuals who might come here and then be able to see what else Stanley says concerning "Eternal Security" Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee zach†
6	How sinful is "fallen away"?	Mark 4:16	zach†	38357
	Joe; With all due respect. McArthur was the man i once looked to whenever I had a question about a certain portion of Scripture. I believed that if anyone would have the correct answer, then McArthur would. For years I daily listened to his radio program, read hi books and visted his web-site at gty.org. I actually personally made an icon out of McArthur. So it's not as if I haven't read, listened to, or studied what McArthur says; It was after time as I continued reading McArthur along side my Bible that the errors in McArthur's teaching became apparent to me. I still think highly of much of what McArthur teaches. But when it comes to scripture McArthur sides with Calvinism which to many is scripture, but for those like myself who see Calvinism as man's teachings we have to choose whether we will or will not believe scripture when it disagrees with what man teaches. Thats the bottom line Joe. So please don't hang us because we don't agree with men. We do believe what scripture says Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee. zach†
7	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38354
	Joe ok then prove it and when you do I will apologize and retract the quote
8	How sinful is "fallen away"?	Mark 4:16	zach†	38352
	Joe; In all sincerity; there is and has been a misunderstanding on this issue between those of the Reformed faith and those on the side of the Remonstrants. Whenever an Arminian trys to appeal to a Calvinist using scripture, we cannot help but get the sense that we are misunderstood, and the reply's we receive, indicate that many think that we believe that works maintain our salvation , even though we don't believe that. I never once mentioned works. What I have written is concerning "perseverance" and endurance which is scriptural. And endurance is perseverance. Also faith is a verb, and is not passive, we are to be pro-active in our faith. We are to pray, put on the full armor of God, we are to trust and obey, if you call that works, then I will remind you that even Scripure says: "faith without works is dead" James 2:20 that means life-less, less than saving faith, a dead non-existant faith is not a faith which can ever please God. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee zach†
9	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38349
	Joe; You asked; "The quote from MacArthur's book: was he citing his own beliefs or quoting someone else with whom he disagrees?" The quote is from McArthur The quote is not about someone he disagrees with The quote represents McArthurs own thoughts in the book which I mentioned. Please look it up, While your at it look up the following unScriptural quote from McArthur: "we have confidence that we cannot sin our way out of God's grace." page 336 The McArthur New Testament Commentary of Romans that sort of teaching gives license to antinomianism!!!!!!! Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee zach†
10	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38348
	Joe; No need to take offense. My reply was to kalos, but I welcome your response as well. Your accucastions of saying I am mis-representing McArthur for merely quoting him are uncalled for, since what i quoted was from him out of his book. John McArthur Jr. Is a great preacher, and I regard him highly, yet I don't think EVERYTHING he says is totally Bibical. I compare what McArthur says by what scripture says, not vice versa. Also John McArthur played a part in my receiving Christ Jesus as Savior and Lord, but as I continued to grow in the faith and as i continued to read and listen to McArthur some obvious Scriptural errors in his teaching became increasingly apparent. I believe that some of his teaching is denominational rather than scriptural as do many others besides myself. Nevertheless, the Bible is my final authority for all faith and practice. And if that means I must reject some teachings of men, then so be it.
11	How sinful is "fallen away"?	Mark 4:16	zach†	38335
	popdzl; I enjoyed your post but concerning the following statement in you post in which you said. "Unless we reach the level of faith on which Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks, we will never fall out of grace " Let me ask you; What level of faith is needed by an individual before it is unlikely for him/her to not fall out of grace? Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee zach†
12	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38331
	Joe; First of all I used the example of the "trinity" for those who find no scriptural base for the very real possibilty of a believer being able to forfeit his salvation. Secondly; I did not come up with the McArthur quote, which is his own, off the top of my head, to try to promote one doctrine over another. It is not my nature as a born-again believer in Christ to lie, or promote falsehood. I gave the source for anyone desiring to look it up. Not only McArthurs quote but Stanleys as well. There are two sides in this "eternal security" debate, and my intention is to make sure both sides are well represented. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee. zach†
13	can you lose your salvation	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	38170
	Unscriptural Antinomianism quotes by "Eternal Security teachers; Now if you read the quotes below and agree with them and those that teach such error, then the Bible and Divine teaching must by necessity take a back-seat to human interpretation "believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation" (Charles Stanley) found on page 94 of his book: Eternal Security: Can You Be Sure? "When you are born again by the grace of Almighty God,...It doesn't make any difference how wicked and how vile you act." (Charles Stanley) (Eternal Security You Can Be Sure) (Part 2, Tape #4, RH190 "even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand." (Charles Stanley) from page 74 of from his book; Eternal Security Can You Be Sure? "Even if a believer, becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy." (Charles Stanley) from page 93 of his book: Eternal Security, Can You Be Sure? "You can sin like the devil down here and... you won't lose your salvation." (Charles Stanley) in his audio tape #3, MH190 "believers who become agnostics are still saved; they are still born again. You can even become an atheist; but if you once accepted Christ as saviour, you cannot lose your salvation, even though you deny God" as quoted in The Gospel According To Jesus by John F. MacArthur, p. 98, May God save us from accepting doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning. Quotes not found in the Bible: 1. Once saved always saved 2. Once in grace always in grace 3. Once a son, always a son
14	Depart from the faith	2 Thess 2:3	zach†	38167
	2 Thess. speaks of the great falling away or apostasy that will take place among individual Christian's as well as whole churches before the Lord's 2nd coming 2Thess. 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND [by] OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for [THAT DAY (meaning the day of the Lord's 2nd coming)], SHALL NOT COME EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, (Apostasy) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 1 Timothy 4:1 says In the latter times some SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH. I want to mention here that it is impossible for someone to depart from the faith unless they have first been in the faith. I cannot depart from Chicago unless I am first in Chicago. Just some scriptural food for thought
15	Fall away	Mark 4:16	zach†	38164
	They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for awhile believe, and in time of temptation FALL away. (Lk. 8:13 Mark 4:16-17) Fall in the above verse is the greek word aphistemi, which means to depart, or apostatize from ones once held profession of faith. In the above verse notice: 1. they hear the word 2. they receive the word with joy 3. But they have no root (this refers merely to the shallowness of their faith, or lack of depth) 4. They believe for awhile 5. Then FALL away (they don’t endure to the end) However they were believers for a time who did become apostates
16	"Once Saved Always Saved"	NT general Archive 1	zach†	38124
	Dear kalos; Your were correct to state that loose salvation and lost salvation cannot be found using search. However, "eternal security" "once saved, always saved" and "once in grace, always in grace" likewise cannot be found in doing a scriptural word search. We could also say the word "trinity" is not in scripture, but nevertheless is implied by scripture, therefore we believe in it. grace be multiplied unto thee. zach†
17	Some will depart from the faith	1 Tim 4:1	zach†	37464
	Robert; To what you posted I say AMEN Keep abiding in Him zach†
18	Some will depart from the faith	1 Tim 4:1	zach†	37384
	brother Robert; Thank you for your reply, and while we can both disagree on this subject, yet have mutual respect for each other. And of course I am not the final authority on what scripture truly means. I have just one comment on your reply. You quoted; "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 3:5) And because that is found in scripture I would be foolish to diasgree with it. But at the same time the following verse comes to my mind; Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. So I see between these two verses; The one you quoted and the one I posted a "being kept" and a "keep yourselves" So how do I reconcile the two verses? Thats easy for me. I see the "being kept" and the "keep yourselves" as the abiding. He in us, and we in Him. We have a relationship with the Lord Jesus, and relationships take two willing partners to continue. I would post more on this but at this time I will remain brief rather than overbearing on this topic. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee. zach†
19	Some will depart from the faith	1 Tim 4:1	zach†	37140
	Dear Robert; I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, but because of the length of some of your replys it took me awhile to fully look over them. I will just select one comment of yours from this reply and make a short rebuttal concerning it. In your reply you stated: "Christians can and will be deceived by false teachers and yet even though they have fallen, they are still part of the family of God." First off concerning the term "fallen" which to me is not the same as falling away. The first is remedial and the second is final and unremedial. So we first have to distinguish exact terms to better understand each other. Let me post the following comment, while it is not Scripture I still believe the thoughts in it are Scriptura,l for those like myself who believe Scripture states that one can depart totally from the faith he/she previously held. I have listened many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die. Doctors do not admonish parents about the dangers of their child being "unborn" but rather about proper care of the child to keep it from dying. In fact if the baby is not fed it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53 Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee; zach†
20	How do I study the bible?	Bible general Archive 1	zach†	37137
	Brother Tim; I went to your churches web-site to look around, and the most amazing thing I found there was a picture of you. Now whenever I get correspondence and reply's from you I have a face to attach to the replys. I think that makes a difference in your replies. I also have a confession to make; I believe I have unknowingly become an Arminian. I started out in my new life in Christ as being in agreement with the Reformed position, but after continually studying God's word, I came to a fork in my spiritual road. I had to either believe God's word or certain denominations positions on doctrine. When push came to shove, God's word became my final authority and now I can no longer accept as true all of the Reformed faiths position. The point I am trying to make is: It was not through any man's teachings that I gradually began to move gradually more and more away from Calvinistic teaching and more and more in the Arminian direction, but that has come about only through the clear teachings of Scripture. So today even if I am an Arminian, I consider that to be because I am a Biblicist first. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee brother; zach†

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