Lockman - Bible questions and answers

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Results		Verse	Author	ID#
1	The Word Gifted to the People of God	2 Pet 1:17	Beja	243945
	EdB, I believe if something is wrong it should be called wrong. For example there is an example of whether or not to baptize infants. At the end of the day, either we are suppose to or we are not. One view must be wrong. And we ought to consider scripture carefully to decide. There is a time for all things as well. There is a time to focus on these things as we consider them and how they imply us ordering our lives and churches. And there is also a right time as you say to "down play those differences." As a baptist, I ought to be able to have edifying fellowship with a presbyterian, and not feel the need to constantly bring up our differences. All that being said however, there is a big differences between me for example deciding that infant baptism is wrong, and the forum enforcing that denominational conclusion. I am in support of me as an individual (in the appropriate course of studying individual passages and a respectful non-inflammatory way) to have the freedom to point out that a particular passage is against infant baptism and to articulate why I think that passage is against it. However, I do not want the "forum" taking that stance and then censoring those who believe in infant baptism. I want them to be free to show me why they think that passage does not come to my conclusion. We must distinguish between my ability to think (and say) something is wrong, with the forum enforcing my view. In my opinion, the real problem usually comes because none of us are discussing passages. We are only discussing theology in the absence of passages. For example, we might find ourselves discussing whether one can loose their salvation, but we aren't finding anybody studying and discussing Romans chapter 8. Or we aren't discussing those very interesting verses in Colossians chapter 1 that sound like they might be suggesting a loss of salvation as possible (though I don't believe they are.) I've not seen much actual "bible study" on here for some time. We are only discussing theological conclusions, not the passages that form the data upon which we must build those theological conclusions. In Christ, Beja
2	The Word Gifted to the People of God	2 Pet 1:17	Beja	243942
	EdB, Helpful clarifications, thank you. I do think it would be implausible to completely avoid denominational differences. But I agree that etiquette in such issues should be considered crucial. Not all wrong theology should be engaged as if heresy. Beja
3	The Word Gifted to the People of God	2 Pet 1:17	Beja	243939
	EdB, What doors? The best I can make sense of what you have said progressively throughout this thread, it sounds like you are against letting people read scripture for themselves, but rather the catholic church was right to tell people not to think about scripture, but rather just let the priests and pope authoritatively declare what it means. It sounds like you are saying we should have never messed with that. Now to be clear, I'm sure that you couldn't possibly be saying that. From what little I know you, I don't think you believe this. So that is why I'm asking, I'm letting you know that you are coming across as this being a possibility of what you are saying. Please correct me, sir. Because I feel confident you must mean something else. You are using so many phrases that we would need to be in your head to know the meaning you assign them. "man invented theologies," "simply following Christ," "Opening doors." And many more terms are things that each individual will fill with their own meaning; this makes your posts in this thread difficult to discern. In Christ, Beja
4	The Word Gifted to the People of God	2 Pet 1:17	Beja	243932
	I'm really lost trying to follow this discussion. What is the 1,500 year old teaching and the 600 year old new stuff? In Christ, Beja
5	How should we view Christianity.	Eph 4:24	Beja	243918
	...
6	How should we view Christianity.	Eph 4:24	Beja	243902
	EdB, You are arguing for rules that go beyond what God commands, and you are saying that we ought to have no dealings with the unclean untrustworthy sinners who are unbelievers, and then you are saying others sound as pharisees. You really ought to consider the irony in that. In Christ, Beja
7	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243890
	EdB, I can't keep up with the multitude of posts. I'm working from a smart phone and won't be back until tomorrow. Most of what I saw was just gobs of speculation, but you did ask one valid question: why do I assume the 2 cor passage doesn't apply to business. I will bow out with an answer to that. I think that passage is specifically appealing to the church. It should be believers only. Paul states extremely clearly in 1 cor 5 that he has never meant for Christians to abandon interactions with outsiders. So I don't have to make lists for the 2 cor passages. Because it's talking about just one thing. Try reading it in that light. In Christ, Beja
8	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243884
	EdB, I stand by my previous posts. I'm surprised that you cry out, "scripture alone" in the face of quotes from men far wiser than the two of us, yet when one cries out "scripture alone" rather than your words, you accuse them of being a Pharisee. I won't answer because I have zero interest in discovering our preferences or best practices. The question is if I sin by shopping from such places. And for that you must provide scripture. If standing on scripture alone means I'm a Pharisee. So be it. And for the record I believe abortion, heroin, and homosexuals in the pulpit can all be addressed with scripture. In Christ, Beja
9	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243880
	EdB, I could answer "why I would want to" and I could engage your logic, but it would only distract from the point I truely want to make. If scripture does not bind the believers conscience, none of us have any business adding a nonscriptural obligation upon a believer. We believe in the sufficiency of scripture. Part of that is the understanding that I can not please God further by adding my own moral additions. Give me scripture or let my conscience be free. In Christ, Beja
10	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243877
	EdB, No I do not. My personal opinion is that such thinking greatly hastened the collapse of American Christianity. We are called to purge sin from the church, not to police the broader culture. 1corinthians 5:9-13. In Christ, Beja
11	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243875
	EdB, Either that verse says I'm not allowed to do business with anybody but Christians, or it was never meant to apply to retail purchases. I suspect the second option. In Christ, Beja
12	smile.amazon.com	Acts 3:19	Beja	243866
	Justme, I'm just pondering, but I can't think of anywhere that scripture puts such a burden or obligation on us. As I search my memory for passages that would shed light on this, my mind goes to Paul giving believers permission to eat meat sacrificed to idols. He seemed to teach they need not burden their conscience with worry about "supporting" the practice. Feel free to eat the meat was the suggestion. Perhaps its apples to oranges, but I still can't think of any passage that would require somebody to meet up to Christian ethics before a christian may do business with them. In Christ, Beja
13	True fact of future sin	Heb 6:4	Beja	243817
	EdB, I have no problem with you arguing that a person can loose their salvation. I think you are wrong, but I think this forum is a place where you out to be able to discuss that position from scripture if you wish. So don't think I'm objecting to that. But you are mistaken when you think the only people who disagree on Heb 6:4-6 are calvinists. I wrote a paper on this for a Ph.D. seminar, and then I had to give a public defense against the brutal onslaught to my stance. Which does not make me an expert, but it ought to lead credence when I tell you it is hotly contested from many many views. I'm merely letting you know that throwing out "Heb 6:4-6" isn't like throwing out some clear passage where everybody looks at it and says, "oh, that is very plain." I assure you have thought carefully about the passage, and I don't agree with your interpretation. Now I may well be wrong. But all I can say is that if I am wrong then I am honestly wrong. I'm not playing games with it to make it say what I want to say. Finally, I am extremely confident that Doc does not think the quotes from men trumps scripture. He absolutely agrees that scripture is the final measure of truth from which we ought to judge all sstatements. What's more, I'm willing to bet that every single man he has quoted also agrees with that. NOBODY is suggesting that quotes from men trump scripture. But quotes have their value. Not a value of defining what we believe, but there is some value to seeing that Christians throughout history have held to a certain position. And there is also value in knowing when a position has been debated throughout history. Further sometimes people of the past have thought deeply and then stated things in ways much more clear and compelling than we could ever manage. This is valuable too. Doc is not asserting that things are true BECAUSE certain men spoke it. He is simply sharing things he believes were always true, but somewhere throughout the history of the church somebody said it in a particularly edifying way. That's ok. I would equally welcome you quoting great Christians from the past who hold to your view. I would guess John Wesley would be a good place to start as he was opposed to the calvinistic viewpoint and he was a true treasure from Christian history. And I promise, none of us will think you are suggesting something is true simply because John Wesley said it. In Christ, Beja
14	True fact of future sin	Heb 6:4	Beja	243814
	EdB, Hebrews 6:4-6 is a hotly debated passage. Nobody can simply quote it in passing as if it can settle a discussion. You would need to defend your interpretation of it at length. I actually think it is not referring to loosing salvation. I believe it is talking about somebody who has been within the church and has been a participant in the blessings of the various ministries of the church over length and yet ultimately reveal themself to have never belong to Christ. Now I am certain you don't believe that, but my whole point is this: you can not simply say "see heb 6:4-6, discussion won." In Christ, Beja
15	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243801
	EdB, Thanks, Beja
16	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243797
	EdB, Response to post 243796. I shall go even a little further and I will respond with what I THINK you said in post 243788 which has me confused and then tell you what I think I hear in the verses you shared. This way you can best identify where I am going wrong. To ease my copy and paste efforts I'm backing up and making this a reply to post 788. So you said, "To clarify I believe there actions both Christians and non Christian can do that give Satan access into their lives. I am not talk about sinning as such but rather things that open our spirit being to attack." So not sin in general, but specific sins are central to "opening" ourselves to demonic attack. Then you identified these sins as messing with the occult, mediums, tarot card readings, ouija boards, drugs, and alcohol. 1.) So the first thing I'm looking to be explained/substantiated in the verses is that the bible teaches that these specific things, and not sin in general are the avenues through which spirits are allowed to attack us. Moving on, you also said, "what defines a Christian the name or a behavior within them or the fact they have closed all e trances into their being except those that Christ Himself opens." Which ofcourse you defined as participation in the aforementioned specific sins. Then you fleshed this idea out by saying, "I believe to truly be a Christians we must be active in protecting the portals of our mind giving access to only to the things of God." 2.) So the next thing I'm looking for in the verses you supplied, is what is the relationship of obstaining from these to being Christian. Are you saying that obstaining makes you a Christian? That God will see to it that a saved person will therefore not do these things? What? So I come to the verses for answers to these two questions. Here is my take away on the verses. 2 Cor 11:4 You are indulging preachers of a false gospel/Jesus when you shouldn't be. Lev 19:31 Do not consult mediums or necromancers and if you do you will become unclean. Lev 20:6 Messing with these things causes you to be an enemy of God and seperated from God's people. So though these verses mention a couple of the sins you spoke of, nowhere do these verses explain anything about your specific assertions. They dont' seem to me to be saying that these specific sins are the very precise avenues by which we open ourselves to demonic attack. More, they say nothing at all about drugs and alcohol. Nor do they explain to me precisely how these things relate to being a Christian so that I know what you mean when you say obstaining from these is what "defines a Christian." I hope this clarifies my confusion. In Christ, Beja
17	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243793
	EdB, But those say nothing about demons or opening ourselves up to demons. Beja
18	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243791
	EdB, I'm still not understanding. Though I will grant the fault is likely in me rather than your explanation. Maybe it would help if you pointed me to which passage of scripture teaches this, and then I can process it at my leisure. In Christ, Beja
19	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243786
	EdB, You said, "Is it a name only or does it require a person to close all entrances to their being except that which is opened only by Christ?" I admit I can't discern what you mean by this. Can you clarify? In Christ, Beja
20	Do demons exist today?	Bible general	Beja	243778
	Justme, Btw, I'm not as certain as you that possession of a believer is categorically impossible. I wonder what passage persuades you of it. In Christ, Beja

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