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Results from: Notes Author: jalanlambert Ordered by Verse
Results		Verse	Author	ID#
1	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	115641
	EdB, I agree that both the person being prayed for and the one praying both benefit, however I get the impression from my own church family that somehow the individuals that pray earnestly for a lost love one for 20 years, believes that their prayers are the reason that the loved one got saved. I believe whether or not that person prayed for 20 years for their loved one is not the determining factor as to whether that person gets saved. To often we become prideful concerning our prayers and GODS answer to these prayers. We are told to pray for GODS will not our own. I believe that GOD would not allow any soul to go to hell without first making sure that the person had every opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as his/her personal Savior. Therefore I believe the greater value to the person praying for a loved one is the growth of that individual to GOD. As we develope a close prayer relationship with GOD our own desires in life now conform to what GODS will is for us thus we are able to pray more accurately to reflect the FATHERS perfect will in our own life. We then claim the fruits of the spirit mentioned in Galatians as the characteristics of our personality. All because we desire GODS will and not our own. EdB, I realize this is just my opinion, and that I did't use any Bible references to help explain my position. I'm interested in what you believe about prayer, and what I just wrote.
2	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	115879
	I have enjoyed this discussion regarding who receives the blessings from our prayers, us or the person we are praying for. BradK, EdB and others have hit the nail on the head. We are spiritual beings and the examples given in the Bible reflect spiritual truth. We are so self obsorbed that we can't see God and His power because we think somehow we can control circumstances in our lives because we think we know best. We don't. Most of the time we look at our circumstances from a very shallow fleshly point of view. God is on His thrown and is in control of this world. You and I can be a part of his will or we can choose to play God with our good deeds church attendance and the like. The Bible says that God looks on the heart. He knows our motive in service to Him and works day and night to reach our hearts in order to use us to His Glory. We on the other hand are lazy and fail Him continually. If it were not for His great love and His plan for each one of us we would be of no effect. I work with criminals and have discovered that short of God providing opportinities in my early life, and even now I would be just like them. Do I think I am better than them? No! On the contrary, I believe that God through His infinate wisdom and mercy chose to use me to Glorify Him. Shame on me for my failures. Praise be to God. HE is able, I must be wlling. As you follow the train of thought on this discussion I once again think that I need to ask the Question again. Who benefits most from our prayer life, us or the person or circumstance we are praying for. I believe God already knows the outcome of every situation that we are confronted with. He already knows at what time it is best for Him to intervene on behalf of the person in need. We must be small minded to believe that we can improve on Gods timing. That's what leads me to believe that the very act of caring about someone else and their need is a quality(love thy neighbor as thy self) that God desires in order for us to be used of Him. The outcome of our prayer is not nearly so important as the relationship we develope with the Father. In eternity only our relationship with Him will matter. As for the lost. God would not allow one soul to be lost without first giving them every opportunity to accept His Son Jesus Christ as Savior. He couldn't be God and do that. By our praying for the lost we again are practicing what Christ showed us, LOVE. I'm sorry for my rambling, I just felt a need to share what God has revealed to me as I strive to know Him better. Love in Christ.
3	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	115997
	ischus, Thanks for your insight. While I believe God is pleased that we desire to communicate with Him, I would hardly believe that we do anything to bless God. I agree that prayer is a relationship that all parties involved benefit. You mention in point two of your note that strength, comfort and healing are directly related to our praying. I believe there is value in our praying for someone or some circumstance, however I wonder if the answer we receive is not a product of Gods will in this situation rather than our prayers. Would God withhold a miracle of health or salvation simply because we didn't pray or because we only had 30 members of our church praying instead of the 500 praying at a much larger church? I believe God is motivated by His love for us and his desire to give us what is most need for us at that time in our life. I agree with you that the greater value of prayer is spiritual. I believe it is a means of developing our relationship to God for now and eternity. I don't believe that the non western world have a better understanding of prayer than we do. I think that they might exercise the privelege of prayer more consistantly. However, if they aren't praying to the One and Only Living God, then they pray in vain. Your brother In Christ.
4	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	115998
	ischus, Thanks for your insight. While I believe God is pleased that we desire to communicate with Him, I would hardly believe that we do anything to bless God. I agree that prayer is a relationship that all parties involved benefit. You mention in point two of your note that strength, comfort and healing are directly related to our praying. I believe there is value in our praying for someone or some circumstance, however I wonder if the answer we receive is not a product of Gods will in this situation rather than our prayers. Would God withhold a miracle of health or salvation simply because we didn't pray or because we only had 30 members of our church praying instead of the 500 praying at a much larger church? I believe God is motivated by His love for us and his desire to give us what is most need for us at that time in our life. I agree with you that the greater value of prayer is spiritual. I believe it is a means of developing our relationship to God for now and eternity. I don't believe that the non western world have a better understanding of prayer than we do. I think that they might exercise the privelege of prayer more consistantly. However, if they aren't praying to the One and Only Living God, then they pray in vain. Your brother In Christ.
5	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	116009
	ischus, I understand what you are saying, but I don't see anywhere in the Bible that God is blessed by our relationship to Him. There are many scriptures that speak of how we are blessed of God. The chosen, the chastened, those who trust, those who fear, those who delight in God, those who hear and obey, those who know Him, those that believe, those that suffer for Christ, those who endure temptation, the undefiled, the pure, the faithful, the poor in spirit, the meek, the merciful, and the peacemakers. There are others, and if you want I can give you references for each. I agree with you totally about numbers not mattering regarding answered prayer. I was being sarcastic. What I am a little confused about is if faith is what motivates God to answer prayer, then why doesn't he answer the prayer of a faithful servant right away? Like Paul who had the thorn in the flesh. He asked God to remove it 3 times, but God didn't. The answer to Pauls prayer was not to remove the thorn (physical), it wasn't Gods will. What was His will was for Paul to endure it and grow by trusting (spiritual) that God knows best even if we think we have the answer. The thorn was a reminder to Paul to trust God no matter what the physical circumstances may appear to be telling him. The physical answer to prayer is always secondary to what God wishes to teach us spiritually. I understand now what you meant by "worldview". I believe people can be in the same community and with faithful christians have extreme differences in preception of faith based on their circumstances. It seems to me that the more difficult the circumstance the more our desire is to know Him. It speakes of how shallow we are. You might be right about other countries as a whole. I'm not that familiar with believers from other countries. jal
6	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	116017
	ischus, Thank you for the references. I believe that God is awsome. We can come from such different backgrounds and still speak as brothers. Bound by the love that God has for us, knowing that he created each of us so unique, yet so much alike through is Son. Praise be to God forever and forever. We will someday meet. jal
7	who benefits most from prayer?	Bible general Archive 2	jalanlambert	116019
	ischus, I thank God for your fellowship. I will be going home now. Have a good weekend. jal
8	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123132
	I personally don't believe there is a need for being a church member. I believe that it is important for every believer to attend and support a local assembly. However, for me to think that membership will some how draw me closer to God or other brothers and sisters in Christ is stretching it a bit. I believe there are people with church memberships across this country who believe that this membership guarantees them eternal life. This is a problem. I believe that the membership idea is man made and reflects mans need and not Gods. The Bible does teach that we are to continue to fellowship with other believers, and to assemble ourselves. My committment should never be based on the accepted doctrinal belief of the local church but to the entire word of God. Jal
9	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123133
	I personally don't believe there is a need for being a church member. I believe that it is important for every believer to attend and support a local assembly. However, for me to think that membership will some how draw me closer to God or other brothers and sisters in Christ is stretching it a bit. I believe there are people with church memberships across this country who believe that this membership guarantees them eternal life. This is a problem. I believe that the membership idea is man made and reflects mans need and not Gods. The Bible does teach that we are to continue to fellowship with other believers, and to assemble ourselves. My committment should never be based on the accepted doctrinal belief of the local church but to the entire word of God. Jal
10	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123148
	Everything you have spoken of is true. We do have Church membership, and afforded the privilege of sharing Our Lord with other brothers and sisters in Christ any where we gather. However I don't believe there is a need for me to put my name on some Church roster to access all the privileges you speak of. The welcome you recieved from the church you visited came not because you had a membership card, or paid dues. You were welcomed by the body of Christ because of the common bond, which is the love for God. Jal
11	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123224
	I personally agree with your understanding of Gods word. However I don't believe that the body can be identified by man. God looks upon the heart and knows who the true body of Christ is, even in the local Church. We do a poor job of identifying what part of the body we really are. Often times members of the body don't function as they should, then other body parts take on their responsibility. The idea that some group of believers needs to label each other as Church Members is a human need and serves no benefit to God. The true believer will serve the Lord no mater where God has placed him.
12	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123232
	You speak as if I don't believe that we need church membership that we are somehow going it alone and have no checks and balances. I attend a local assembly that has memberships, however I choose not to belong to this Club with its rules. Isn't Gods order for the Church enough? Must I play the game of being accepted by the Church body because I tell them that I want to belong? I don't think so. Why must we call ourselves members of something that we already have membership in. Is the local church membership a better one than the Lord as given? It is entirely mans effort to control. JAL
13	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123245
	I support the local church, however, not because of the church orginization, but because of my committment to God and His work being accomplished there. I agree with the function of the local church, just not a need for membership. God does not need your money. He is able to acomplish His will with the use of believers committed to Him and His will, not because of some membership that says I am something. Many people give to the church as a means of satisfying themselves and God, not out of committment to God. I say to them keep your money, God will do just fine without it. We have been brainwashed in this society to believe that God needs us. We are the ones in need, and when we really understand this we will do Gods will no matter what our circumstances are. And church membership is not a requirement. Jal
14	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123249
	What that verse doesn't say is that in order to be fully accepted in that assembly, one must be a member. Why didn't God tell us to be members of the body of Christ, and members of the local assembly and its rules and regulations?
15	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123251
	The membership that you refer to is founded wholly on being a member of the body of Christ. Not what the church memberships of today require. We have managed to put requirements on membership that are not necessary. God said in order to be a member of the body of Christ we only need to be saved from our sins. Nothing more nothing less.
16	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123257
	EdB, Thanks for your thoughts. I will consider your points regarding the Govt, and legal aspects of the local assembly. Also the ability to vote on important issues. However, you know that if the committment you spoke of is caused by some obligation to the church or a desire to please someone in the church, will not be serving God but man. They will still be selfish and self centered regarding the Lord, only now it is better disquised because they have conformed to the Church standard. This is a dangerous practice, because we can lose our focus and become member in good standing just taking up space feeling pretty good about ourselves. Jal
17	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123267
	Rowdy, I appreciate your comments and your understanding of the Word of God. I believe that your goal in answering on this subject is to help. Thank you for that. The place that I differ with you is regarding the need for registered members of the local church. You said that it is important for us to be an active part of the local assembly, and devoted to a hard bunch of christians. I couldn't agree with you more. However, why would I need to do anything more? What is it that requires my name on some church roster. If I am already doing Gods will for my life and active in the church ministries, why would God ask me to sigh on to something that I have already committed to? The problem I see with mans membership is that it can't add one thing to bring glory to God or the furtherence of the Gospil that the born again christian can't do withoout church membership. Jal
18	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123271
	kalos, I will agree with the scripture you have posted, and the others posted on this thread regarding the believer being a member of the body of Christ. ( 1st Corinthians 6:15 )However, I believe we are members of the body of Christ when we are saved from our sins. Kalos, show me how you transition from being a member of the body of Christ to being a member of a local church. Also, my intention is not to do harm to this forum, but to learn. I learn best when I am shown concrete, not abstract. If Gods Word in the Greek refers to my being a member of the local assembly as opposed to being a member of Christ please show me. I would like to learn this principle if it is true. If you refer to the early church as being members, show me how that membership is different than being a member of the body of Christ. And what are it's qualifications, and how do they differ from our being members of the body of Christ. I am not the enemy kalos only trying to learn. Jal
19	Where does membership come from?	NT general Archive 1	jalanlambert	123336
	Angel, I totally agree with you kalos and Rowdy concerning the establishment of the local church. I agree that it is an absolute necessity for the furtherence of the gospel and the building up of the saints. I believe in working in the local church as a member of that body and the submission to it's leadership. We as believers are to present our bodies a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God, which is our reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1) I have listened to your posts for a couple of months and enjoy and appreciate the committment you have shown to teach and share the gospel of Christ. Thank you. What I am having trouble understanding is the value of placing our name on a church roster. It seems fleshly to me. God already knows the true members of the body. It can't be for His benefit or glory. So why do we do it? I know of members of our local church that are members by name only. They don't participate in the body function, but now because they have membership in our church they represent us all while in the community. Sometimes this is quite embarassing and reflects poorly. I worry that unsaved might mistake membership with the church with being saved. My local church lets the congregation vote on new members by lifting hands while the person watches. It appears to be more of a popularity vote, and of course everyone wants to see new members. Shouldn't it be enough to love the Lord, fellowship with the body while using the God given talents He has given us to carry out His Great Commission, while in submission to the leaders in that body. I personally don't see how my name being added to our church roster in any way benefits me or God. Thank you for your patience and willingness to let me speak. The forum is a great tool for learning. Jal
20	Santa Clause or Jesus Christ? or both?	Deut 5:6	jalanlambert	128380
	Brad K Thank you for your response and reference. I am leaving my office now but will respond tomorrow. Thank you again. JAL

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