Results 141 - 160 of 190
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: zach† Ordered by Verse |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 33936 | ||
Curt: Carefully Re-read John 15:2 and you will see that it says "He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit" But nevertheless even though they were "cut off," they were still said to be "in him" That part of this text is over-looked by most. In Christ zach |
||||||
142 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 34296 | ||
Curt; I never said they "are still in him" The text says that there are some that are "cut off" who were a one time "in him" No branch can be cut off that has not been previously attached. Look at John 15:2 again John 15:2 EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT BEARETH NOT FRUIT HE TAKETH AWAY: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. In Christ zach† |
||||||
143 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 34300 | ||
Robert; Thank you for you response. I agree with your statements and just want to add to what you stated so well, that you may be able to understand my thoughts on this. You stated; "he saves us daily as we walk with Him" I say amen Jerry Bridges in his wonderful book made the following comment. "God has made it posible for us to walk in holiness. But He has given us the responsibility of doing the walking." Scripture says: Gal. 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, LET US ALSO WALK IN THE SPIRIT. Concerning the three-fold aspect of salvation which you touched upon I also agree, just my wording is a bit different as you will see as I now post it. Salvation is in 3 tenses. Justification (We have been saved - past tense) from the penalty of sin. Sanctification (We are being saved - present tense) from the power of sin. (and to get into another discussion of positional and on-going sanctification is a whole other topic that I won't go into detail about at this time Glorification (We yet shall be saved - future tense) from the presence of sin. In Christ zach† |
||||||
144 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 34320 | ||
Cur†; to answer your question: "The question is... does the warning apply to only people groups, or also to individual salvation." The following scripture initially comes to mind. Gal. 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. So from that text, I think is possible to say that leaven (which usually refers to sin) can begin in an individual and then spread corperately, through the body. But more importantly in John 15:2 which reads: John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. branch in this verse is treated as being singular. The termnology used for branch in this verse is "it' not they or them, etc. One last thought I have concerns some text in Rev. concerning the 7 churches of Asia. Rev. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. In the church of Sardis their were only a FEW which had not been defiled and had soiled their garments. Few can mean a remnant I believe. So although not all in Sardis were defiled, the majority were. In Christ zach† |
||||||
145 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 34334 | ||
Cur†; Matthew 10 is Jesus instructions to his disciples to prepare them. Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Mt 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. Jesus was telling his disciples about persecution, not whether they would or would not lose salvation. This text does not deal with whether or not salvation can be lost. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the (physical body, not spiritual) body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. This text In the next text you posted from John; John 10 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. Didn't Jesus say that no man can pluck us out of His hand? Yes He did. And in the preceding verse Jesus indentified those who are held securely in His hand. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW me;The ones who cannot be plucked out of Christ's hand are the sheep who hear His voice and follow Him. They are obedient to His teaching. if ye turn away, and forsake my ... commandments, ... Then will I pluck them up ... and ... cast (them) out of my sight (2 Chr. 7:19-20) The protection is from enemies without who seek to carry off the sheep, but not from unfaithfulness of the sheep who might choose not to follow any longer. This safety is only from forces outside the believer and God Himself. A backslider removes himself from the promises of safety and security. He is not removed against his own will. John 10:29 is a great promise that no man can pluck believers out of their Father's hand. That is what it teaches. It does not teach that you cannot, as a believer, walk out of His hands. It simply teaches that man cannot take you out of God's hands, but it does not talk about your own ability to choose to leave His hands. In Christ zach† |
||||||
146 | Thanks, but what about....? | Eph 2:5 | zach† | 35628 | ||
Please excuse me for butting in here Concerning the question: is salvation a process or one time event, the answer is yes. The new birth is a one time past tense event for each born-again believer. Salvation is a broad term which I like to say is like an umbrella. Underneath the umbrella of salvation is, justification, sanctification, and glorification, which understood in their proper forms indicate that salvation is also a process or ongoing work in each and every believer. We are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior. I would like to add a few points to this "ship and shore" illustration also. First: In Scripture we read of two who made shipwreck of their faith. 1 Tim. 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. Their ship of faith crashed against the rocks and was busted up and sunk. Maybe their faith was too shallow. I use that pun because the rocks were in shallow and troubled waters Secondly if you like illustrations on this, I will provide this one: Bill Jones is fishing several miles out in the ocean. His boat capsizes and sinks to the bottom. He is unable to swim to safety. Just then another fishing boat comes along, but it is so heavily loaded that it is impossible to take on another passenger. Because they want to rescue the doomed man, however the crew throws him a rope. "Here take this rope," they say. "We will tow you to shore." As he takes the rope, Bill Jones says, "Thank God, I am saved!" And he is saved, as long as he holds on to the rope. Salvation is his, but he has to play a part in it. If he should at any time release his grasp on the rope and refuse to take it again, he would be lost. So it is with a person who has been rescued from sin. He remains saved as long as he holds on to the hand of Christ. If he should decide to release that hand, he would be lost. Actually one can properly speak of salvation in three tenses - past, present, and future. He can say, "I have been saved" when he takes the rope, "I am being saved" as he is being towed to shore; and "I shall be saved" when he plants his feet firmly on shore. Does the fact that the man must cling to the rope to be saved, mean that we can earn our salvation by our works? Absolutely not. Remember he was being towed by a power other than his own. He was merely co-operating with that power. He was holding onto the rope. He had to do that in order to be pulled to safety. Grace and peace zach† |
||||||
147 | Thanks, but what about....? | Eph 2:5 | zach† | 35666 | ||
Bgg you said: "no man can pluck us from His or His Father's hand but we can walk or jump out?" and to that we can agree then Grace and peace zach† |
||||||
148 | Thanks, but what about....? | Eph 2:5 | zach† | 35760 | ||
Dear charis; Greetings in the name of Jesus! "I take it that you have not served in an inner city mission for the homeless." Well I have and still do volunteer work inside our local food kitchen, and clothing closet. I don't know if that counts. "Even a few weeks of serving meals and preaching to the derelicts and addicts and 'professional welfare recipients" I would say that basically describes the people I come in contact with at the food kitchen. It appears to me that you work in evangelism and ministering to the lost, and thats excellent. PTL However most things I discuss are not evangelistic in nature. So I think part of the problem we have in our discussions is you try to bring all discussions into an evangelical train of thinking. And if your God given giftedness is in evangelism, again I say PTL. The issues I speak on are more doctrinal, rather than evangelical in nature. It is highly unlikely that I would discuss the same things I have mentioned in most my my replys with babes in Christ, or those with seeker sensitive hearts. My reply's were intended and geared more for those who have reached some level of maturity in their walk with Christ Jesus. In scripture we read of new born babes who need milk and are not ready for meat. And even for those who are serving as evangelists, the scriptural command to them is clear: Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. So please don't try to fit all my thoughts into an evangelical mold. They were not intended to be evangelical in nature. I merely present my thoughts, and open them up for discussion. For agreement or disagreement. Finally Cultures may change, but Jesus never changes. (Christ Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever Heb. 13:8) Jesus can transcend cultures Grace peace and love zach† |
||||||
149 | Do not quench the Spirit | 1 Thess 5:19 | zach† | 34891 | ||
Ray; Thanks Let me ask this: Is the Holy Spirit God in us? 1Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? In Christ zach† |
||||||
150 | Depart from the faith | 2 Thess 2:3 | zach† | 38167 | ||
2 Thess. speaks of the great falling away or apostasy that will take place among individual Christian's as well as whole churches before the Lord's 2nd coming 2Thess. 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND [by] OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for [THAT DAY (meaning the day of the Lord's 2nd coming)], SHALL NOT COME EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, (Apostasy) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 1 Timothy 4:1 says In the latter times some SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH. I want to mention here that it is impossible for someone to depart from the faith unless they have first been in the faith. I cannot depart from Chicago unless I am first in Chicago. Just some scriptural food for thought |
||||||
151 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33442 | ||
charis; They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for awhile believe, and in time of temptation FALL away. KJV(Lk. 8:13 Mark 4:16-17) Fall in the above verse is the greek word aphistemi, which means to depart, or apostatize from ones once held profession of faith. In the above verse notice: 1. they hear the word 2. they receive the word with joy 3. But they have no root (this refers merely to the shallowness of their faith, or lack of depth) 4. They believe for awhile 5. Then FALL away (they don’t endure to the end) However they were believers for a time who did become apostates There is an eternal "if" in every consideration of eternal security. IF we walk in the light; IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son; IF any man draw back; IF a man abide not in me, he is cast forth; IF a man keep my saying: IF thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off: IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall; IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; IF we endure; IF we deny Him, He also will deny us; IF we sin willfully..there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; IF ye forsake Him, He will forsake you; ye are my friends IF ye do whatsoever I command you; IF ye live after the flesh, ye shall die. proponents who deny that salvation can never be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin's lamp can go out; (Matt. 25:8) that no promising harvest be chocked with thorns; (Matt. 13:22) no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from fruitfulness; (John 15:6) that no name blotted out of God's book! (Rev. 3:5) They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; (mat 5:13) salt that loses its saltiness, no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot. Matt. 5:13 that nobody can ever "receive the grace of God in vain"; (2 Cor. 6:1) bury his talents' (Matt. 25:25) "neglect such great salvation"; (Heb. 2:3) "look back" after putting his hand to the plow. (Luke 9:62) That Nobody can "grieve the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) till He is "quenched," (1 Thess. 5:19) nor "deny the Lord that bought them" nor "bring upon themselves swift destruction." 2 Pet. 2:1 That Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. Rev 3:16 They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found; that if one falls, he never stood. If one was ever cast forth, he was never in and if one ever withered, (John 15:6) he was never green. And that if one draws back, (Heb 10:38) he never had anything to draw back from. That if one ever falls into spiritual darkness, he was never enlightened; that if you again get entangled in the pollutions of the world, (2 Pet. 2:20-22) it shows that you never escaped. That if you put salvation away, you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of your faith, (1 Tim. 1:19-20) there was no ship of faith there. In short they say: If you get it, you can't lose it: and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning. (John Wesley) Heb 13:5 he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. God will never just decide to forsake any believer, ever! Yet, the believer may decide to forsake Him. Once a believer has forsaken God He then will give them up to themselves and forsake them. This does not contradict that He will never leave or forsake a believer, rather it affirms that God is not the one who does the forsaking. If we fall from the faith, it doesn’t reflect negatively upon God’s faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness Backslidding, or drifting from the faith (Heb.2:1) can also be Grieving (or saddening) the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30). Lukewarmness sets in, Rev 3:15-16… Continued backslidding results in the conscience becoming seared (1 Tim. 4:2) and the heart becoming caloused and hardened (Heb 3:13). Then we quench (1 Thess.5:19) (put out) the Holy Spirit's spark of spiritual life that He began within us. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! |
||||||
152 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33446 | ||
Robert; Sorry I took so long to respond, but I have been super busy, and will at this time only give one short comment for your consideration. Security for branches depends on their remaining connected to the vine. Read John 15:1-6 |
||||||
153 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33448 | ||
Robert; I appreciate your comments and will post some scripture for you to think about and possibly comment on. The same Saviour who said, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish" (Jn. 10:28) also said, "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Lk. 13:23-24) The same apostle Peter who said, "In his great mercy he has given us new birth . . . into an inheritance that can never perish" (1 Pet. 1:3-4) also said "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure" (2 Pet. 1:10) Paul who said nothing "will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 8:39) also said, "I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize" (1 Cor. 9:27) |
||||||
154 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33516 | ||
Robert; Thank-you for your response. I totally agree with your post. Another good verse is: Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you - unless indeed you fail the test? 2 Cor. 13:5 Christian's will desire to examine theirselves to see what evidence there is of saving faith and salvation. I don't think this is a once for all time done examining process, but we should desire to continually examine and test our profession. Thank you again Robert |
||||||
155 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 33932 | ||
Tim; Thank you brother, and I fully agree with your response. Thank you for all the supportive scripture also. Let me add that John 15:2,6 is also very good scripture to use concerning this sensitive subject. John 15:2,6 talks about those "in him" who do not continue to "abide" (meaning remain in him) that they will be cut off, become withered and dry, gathered and cast into the fire. God bless you in your service of Him In Christ zach |
||||||
156 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 34739 | ||
dear brother charis; I was just getting caught up on some of the many responses I have received, and couldn't remember if I had sent the following article your way for consideration on this topic or not. If I haven't I would appreciate your comments on it. If I have or if you have previously read this account please forgive me and ignore it. So here goes: Denying Christ: Has Bradley Lost His Faith? "I've made my choice," wrote the young basketball star. "I love Jesus Christ and I try to serve Him to the best of my ability. How about you?" Who is this--David Robinson of the San Antonio Spurs? It may surprise you to learn the tract was written 30 years ago by former Senator Bill Bradley. Bradley has since renounced his Christian beliefs,and his actions are a warning of the perils of political expediency--and of not holding our fellow believers accountable. The pamphlet, titled "I've Made My Choice," was published in the 1960s by the American Tract Society when Bradley was a rookie with the New York Knicks. In it, BRADLEY RECOUNTS HOW HE HAD ACCEPTED CHRIST while a student at Princeton. "I knew I had been giving my life to the wrong goals," he wrote. "I knew then that I wanted to give my life to Jesus Christ and His service." Not anymore, it appears. In his 1996 memoirs, Bradley says he was put off by the exclusive truth claims of fundamentalist Christianity. He was also bothered by the uncharitable attitudes and racism displayed by some Christians. Bradley now disavows his Christian beliefs and,according to "Investor's Business Daily," says he "now embraces all religions" from Buddhism to Islam, so long as they seek "inner peace." These are chilling words from a man who was once very active in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It appears that he has either renounced his faith entirely--or he has decided, for political reasons, to renounce it publicly. Now, since I believe that a person once saved is always saved, I have to conclude that either Bradley was not truthful in his earlier testimony, or that this is purely a political move--that deep down, Bill Bradley does know the truth. Bradley's story is a cautionary tale, not just for Christians who go into politics, but for all of us. HERE WAS A MAN WHO WAS CONVERTING OTHERS TO CHRIST, and somewhere along the line, he got off the rails. It's a warning that we need to constantly keep ourselves fresh in the faith, to attend discipleship classes, and to hold one another accountable. It's a cautionary tale, as well, as to what the political system does to candidates. It does seem to reward politicians for turning their backs on unfashionable commitments, like Christian faith or pro-life positions. As for Bradley, I hope and pray he will to reconsider the words that he himself wrote in that long-ago tract: "The choice is simple. It is between the eternal and the passing, between the strong and the weak . . . between Jesus Christ and the world." -------------------------------------------------- So how do we explain a senario like this, and other like senarios of other individuals? Your comments will be highly regarded In Christ zach† |
||||||
157 | fall upward? | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 34757 | ||
CDBJ; Ok but how do account for the fact that, HERE WAS A MAN WHO WAS CONVERTING OTHERS TO CHRIST? In Christ zach† |
||||||
158 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 37140 | ||
Dear Robert; I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, but because of the length of some of your replys it took me awhile to fully look over them. I will just select one comment of yours from this reply and make a short rebuttal concerning it. In your reply you stated: "Christians can and will be deceived by false teachers and yet even though they have fallen, they are still part of the family of God." First off concerning the term "fallen" which to me is not the same as falling away. The first is remedial and the second is final and unremedial. So we first have to distinguish exact terms to better understand each other. Let me post the following comment, while it is not Scripture I still believe the thoughts in it are Scriptura,l for those like myself who believe Scripture states that one can depart totally from the faith he/she previously held. I have listened many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die. Doctors do not admonish parents about the dangers of their child being "unborn" but rather about proper care of the child to keep it from dying. In fact if the baby is not fed it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53 Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee; zach† |
||||||
159 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 37384 | ||
brother Robert; Thank you for your reply, and while we can both disagree on this subject, yet have mutual respect for each other. And of course I am not the final authority on what scripture truly means. I have just one comment on your reply. You quoted; "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 3:5) And because that is found in scripture I would be foolish to diasgree with it. But at the same time the following verse comes to my mind; Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. So I see between these two verses; The one you quoted and the one I posted a "being kept" and a "keep yourselves" So how do I reconcile the two verses? Thats easy for me. I see the "being kept" and the "keep yourselves" as the abiding. He in us, and we in Him. We have a relationship with the Lord Jesus, and relationships take two willing partners to continue. I would post more on this but at this time I will remain brief rather than overbearing on this topic. Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee. zach† |
||||||
160 | Some will depart from the faith | 1 Tim 4:1 | zach† | 37464 | ||
Robert; To what you posted I say AMEN Keep abiding in Him zach† |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ] Next > Last [10] >> |