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Results from: Notes Author: nimrod2 Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 24 hour days are based on what? | Gen 1:2 | nimrod2 | 43533 | ||
Hi Steve, Romans 1:20 happens to be the verse that cinched my salvation. I was skeptical of God for many years until I was forced to look a little deeper at the question and meaning of creation. Peace and Grace to you also, Doug aka nimrod2 |
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2 | 24 hour days are based on what? | Gen 1:2 | nimrod2 | 62472 | ||
The answer was so nice he posted it twice! | ||||||
3 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59429 | ||
That's odd you'd say that Ed. We allow for love offerings when someone comes to speak at our church or play music that glorifies God. Afterwards, meaning after the service, if someone wishes to purchase a book or CD, they can do so. We don't hold auctions in our sanctuary on Sunday. The few times we have had these events the church has given ALL the proceeds to missionaries. We also have aerobics classes, basketball, volleyball and variety of events like dinners there. Why? Because our sanctuary is our gymnasium on certain days other than Sunday. Believe me, when we invite someone to a concert or dinner, or to any event, we plant seeds. Their first reaction is they're amazed what we do for others. All for the glory of God. If that's wrong tell me why. |
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4 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59668 | ||
EdB states: "I’m also baffled why churches resort to worldly ways to raise funds instead of being blessed by sacrificial giving." I think when someone gives their used automobile to the church instead of trading it in and the church then either gives it away to a needy family or sells it, that's sacrificial. Then again, for some folks, anything anybody else thinks or does that is not completely inline with the way they were brought up in the church is wrong. Kind of like some people thinking dancing is a sin. In answer to your question Ed, no I don't consider it okay to "merchandise" the church. |
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5 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59750 | ||
ED states: "we have churches full of free loaders" Oh Ed, I really can't believe this is how you feel! What shall we do? Have an auction and sell the free loaders to the Muslims? |
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6 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59840 | ||
Apology accepted. I pray that you might understand that some people are devoted to the Lord but may not have the same ability to excercise monetary giving. Giving is important. Therefore, if they serve in another capacity, meaning, they have a giving heart and that they serve willingly and freely, they are no different than somebody who tithes 15 or 30 percent of their income. I for one don't believe God loves us any less if we don't write a check every Sunday. We absolutely should if we can. Getting back to the selling issue. This is another example. Betty may not have a lot of money but she can sew or bake. Linda may not have a lot of money but she loves kids and babysits while moms and dads go to praise and worship. Dan was bankrupt a year ago, but he loves Jesus and mows the Church grounds regularly. Bob is mechanic who lives in a trailer, he can't give much money-wise, but he can fix a car. I think diversity is the beauty of Christianity. Rich and poor. Remember, as the Lord said, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God! Are you a person who sees the glass half-empty or half-full? |
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7 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59875 | ||
EdB "you seem to jump to many conclusions about me of which you have no concept" Other than the fact you dislike any type of selling within or near the church structure, I have not come to any conclusions about you Ed. Frankly, I respect your opinion to a certain degree and I definitely agree with you on the photographers issue, who I think try to exploit a vulnerable situation. Had I not been in church when they made their pitch to me I would've given them a good tongue-lashing for their price gouging. "please stop putting words in my mouth" Could you elaborate on that, I don't know what you mean? Are you referring to the "freeloader" comment you made a few posts back? I'm really not following you here. My only point is this. People like to go to my church. It isn't a Sam's CLub or a Costco. We have a few fundraisers now and then. The youth group may do a car wash once a summer. Certain other small groups do their thingy, whether it be a bake sale or something else. When someone or some group shares their God gifted talent on our stage, we make sure the glory goes to the Lord. We don't market them, I guess in a sense we market the great commission. Even though we may have tapes or CDs, books or cookies, most people still come here for one purpose only. To speak and listen to the Manager. The Manager of All Creation. |
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8 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59903 | ||
Well Ed, you're so busy with terse replies you didn't even realize the opening sentence I replied to you with were your own words. Look in your message titled "NimRod2 Where did you get the opinion I...." and look at the last paragraph. Quote, "Nimrod I thank you for your concern about me but you seem to jump to many conclusions about me of which you have no concept. If you have something to add to this discussion either pro or con then by all means let us hear it. But please stop putting words in my mouth." That doesn't seem to be the problem here, the problem is you want to make your words my words. before you get angry, I have something to add Ed. LIGHTEN UP! Jesus was referring to the den thieves in Luke. Not Christians who love God so much they'll make up for the 80 percent who don't tithe by holding a bake sale or a carwash. But in any case, agree or disagree, this was an interesting dialogue. I do respect your opinion and I am sure your heart is for the Lord. Blessings and big honking humorous laughs to you. |
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9 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59919 | ||
Dear Ed You seem to have some issues. None of them are really worthy of my time and effort because I don't foresee you as someone with a compassionate heart(especially based on the "freeloader" comment) but rather someone who likes to argue. Which is a shame because we probably have more issues we agree upon than disagree. Quote (of yours not mine) : You said my understanding of this was wrong and I'm just trying to find out what scripture you are basing that comment on. Where did I say that Ed? That we have a difference of opinion, I did likely imply that. I never once said you were wrong. In fact early on I said that I do not think "merchandising" the church is okay. I never condoned selling on Sunday. I never condoned profiteering. I have never condoned retail thievery. I do not condone the desecration of a house of worship. You demand scripture, for what? For your personal satisfaction? For your personal condemnation of another? You have surely read the scripture for yourself. John 2:13-22, Luke 19:45-46 Jesus cleansed the temple twice, once at the beginning of his ministry and once towards the end. Jesus protested the turning of his Father's house into a market. He did not protest the sacrificial system itself. His protests were against abuses. The abuses were many. The religious leaders made money off the sale of animals for sacrifices, people were also taking shortcuts through the temple and the money changers were also basically just profiteers. A den of thieves. Abuses have existed and do exist, one could learn a lesson from the examples of many televangelists and preachers (Jim Bakker comes to mind). If you care to go back through any of my replies to you on this entire thread and point out where I said it was okay to be a profiteer or condoned the commercialization of Jesus Christ, just point it out. Otherwise, the only abuse going on is your attitude towards me. I have nothing further to add of any constructive use. Do you? |
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10 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59939 | ||
It's closed as far as I'm concerned and thank you for your concern as well. | ||||||
11 | is selling in a church building fine? | John 2:13 | nimrod2 | 59941 | ||
Sorry Ed, we will have to agree to disagree on the issue of selling in the church. Whether my position on that issue is right or wrong, it was egregious for me to take it this far on a personal level. It was my fault, I realize it and I apologize to you for that. |
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12 | time | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 43857 | ||
Hello Scott, Again, very valid points on the issue of days and of time in general relationship to literal interpretation of Genesis. I would add to your comments that even very early on, "church fathers and other Biblical scholars interpreted the creation days of Genesis 1 as long periods of time. The list of such proponents includes the Jewish historian Josephus (1st century); Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons, apologist, and martyr (2nd century); Origen, who rebutted heathen attacks on Christian doctrine (3rd century); Basil (4th century); Augustine (5th century); and, later, Aquinas (13th century), to name a few." from Reasons.org Also regarding : Gen 2:4 The Hebrew word for generation, toledah, always refers to a long time period, never to anything as short as a week. In fact Genesis 2:4 uses the plural form, generations, indicating to me that even more time must have passed. |
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13 | Year Long Sabbath | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 43910 | ||
I don't know how it can be any plainer than the nose on my face. The land is to have a year of rest. |
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14 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44068 | ||
Hello Steve, I can appreciate your concern with the way that was phrased. If I had stated, "Here we clearly see the land being subject to year long Sabbath instead of just one day." would it make any difference? Not likely, because those that hold to the 24 hour creation days are unlikely to change their views based on my persuasion to the contrary. Fortunately the issue doesn't impact on one's salvation. In any regard, I will restate the obvious, the first three days might be 24-hour days but they were NOT solar days. My purpose in bringing up the Lev. scripture was to highlight and contrast the uses of day, ie. that the "six distinct days" could also be "six distinct years of time". The Hebrew word yôm, "day," is obviously used in the Bible, like our English word 'day,'to mean a period of 24 hours, however, also like its English counterpart, it may be used to distinguish from the night and therefore represent a period less than 24 hours, such as "in the cool of the day," and it is capable of meaning a period of unspecified length, as in the prophetic references to "the day of the Lord." In Genesis 2:4 the word yôm is used in the singular to describe all that transpired in God's creation as described as a period of six days in Genesis. Here it is evident that all six days of creation—however conceived—are summarized as "the day when the Lord God made the heavens and the earth" —where the NIV simply translates "the day" as "when." |
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15 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44082 | ||
I'll give an amen to that! | ||||||
16 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44090 | ||
Dear Makarios, I do my best to keep an open mind. As is typical with many literalists I have encountered over the years, you are more interested in making my viewpoint out to be heresy, to witness your comments: "false substitution" "at best, is misleading, and a misapplication of Scripture." "what else will you misapply or distort within Scripture?" What else indeed dear brother. I know your kind. End the slap in the face with a "Blessings to you". Thank God opinion is still free in this country. The idea that an opinion is not legitimate because it is "based on his own conception of how or when God created" negates every opinion possible... even yours, because that is exactly all anyone has to go on, even after reading and studying the Bible; each of us has a conception of how God should be. Even you. And peace be with you. |
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17 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44099 | ||
Thank you Steve You might also want to consider is that your conception of what the Bible reveals about the creation account is skewed more by your own opinion than it is correct hermeneutics. A host of impressive Biblical scholars feel the same way I do and a host feel the same way you do. Specific biblical examples of evidence for long creation days include: 1.The "Day of the Lord" refers to a seven year period of time. 2.Genesis 2:4 refers to all 6 days of creation as one day, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." 3.The seventh day of Genesis is not closed. In all other days, "there is the evening and the morning, the ___ day." 4.In the book of Hebrews, the author tells us to labor to enter into God's seventh day of rest. By any calculation, God's seventh day of rest has been at least 6,000 years long: For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"... Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:4-11) 5.The psalmist (Moses, the author of Genesis) says "For a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or as a watch in the night." (Psalms 90:4). 6.The apostle Peter tells us with God "A thousand years is as one day" (2 Peter 3:8). 7.The events of the sixth day of creation require time beyond 24 hours. On this day, God created the mammals and mankind. He also planted a garden, watered it, let it grow, and put man in it, with instruction on its care and maintenance. Then God brought all the animals to Adam to be named. This job, in itself would take many days or weeks. Next, God put Adam to sleep and created Eve. It is very unlikely all of this could take place in 24 hours, since much of it was dependent upon Adam, who did not have the abilities of God. 8.The Bible itself states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (Deuteronomy 7:9, 1 Chronicles 16:15, Psalms 105:8). Even if a generation is considered to be 20 years, this adds up to at least 20,000 years. A biblical generation is often described as being 40 years, which would represent at least 40,000 years. However, since the first dozen or more generations were nearly 1,000 years, this would make humans nearly 50,000 years old, which agrees very well with dates from paleontology and molecular biology (see Descent of Man Theory: Disproved by Molecular Biology). Do you believe in the Appearance of Age arguement? God does not deceive. If you have seen the stars being born (Hubble Space Telescope) in the distant universe you would realize it is not a deception. There are clear evidences from God about the age of His creation. I have done a great deal of citing my opinions and reasonings for long creation days and an old earth, how about you cite some evidences for a 24 hour creation day and a young earth? |
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18 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44187 | ||
Dear Steve Thank you for clarifying your position on the age issue. I have no qualms or arguements with you. This may sound kind of cheezy but I have many friends who are also Young Earthers, including my Pastor. We discussed the issue early in an open and forthright manner. The conclusion? It has no bearing on a person's salvation which is secured only through trusting Christ. We have learned to repsect each others position on the issue. Someday, we will find out exactly how God did it. When we do, you will owe me a double mocha latte! Until that day, keep your eyes fixed on Christ. Blessings, Doug (aka nimrod2....a mighty warrior for God!) |
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19 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44245 | ||
Another good example of how an individual's interpretation of "day" and "night" are skewed by what they have been exposed to and not what may or may not have actually occured in the pre-solar days of creation. It is a hot topic. One that threatens some literalists so badly they'll not only question your motives but your integrity too. Don't ever stop thinking, looking and exploring. See you around the message board. Blessings to you, Doug |
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20 | What was infused? | Acts 1:3 | nimrod2 | 44325 | ||
Hank I respect your right to believe in a young earth. In fact i would be willing to fight and die to protect that right. But I do not respect anyone who suggests that I would falsify or distort scripture because of my position on the age issue. It should not be a big issue. I usually don't get this torqued over it. I do get wound up by a couple of things, specifically, bad science, like moon dust arguements, bad logic, arguements from incredulity, straw man arguements and bad theology, meaning believe what I believe or you're not really a Christian. This boy don't play that game. As for ICR, I visited there and Answers-in-Genesis. Frankly, you don't want to know what I know about their "science". I don't mean that disrespectfully either. Thanks for your input and Christ be with you. |
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