Results 1221 - 1240 of 1251
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Results from: Notes Author: mark d seyler Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1221 | fifth seal martyrs | Rev 6:9 | mark d seyler | 150134 | ||
Some observations on the material presented by www.revelationcommentary.com: This web site is presented by the same people as Sola Group It did not take me long to notice numerous errors as I read this material. Please be advised to compare anything you read with scripture. Always study scripture for yourself, turning to commentators only to supplament your own individual study. Them “”The common trait of the last three seals is the wrath of God. The fifth seal martyrs request that God pour out his wrath on the living earth-dwellers.”” Me What this scripture actually says is: Rev 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. The souls of those slain for the word of God ask “How long until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” They as an informational question, not a request for action. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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1222 | When Does Wrath Begin in the 70th Week? | Rev 6:16 | mark d seyler | 175859 | ||
Revelation 11:3 “And I will give to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, dressed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:7 “And when they complete their witness, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war with them, and will overcome them, and will kill them.” LITV In Revelation 11 we are told of two witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. During this time, fire comes from their mouths to devour anyone who would try to hurt them. They can send any plague on the earth anytime they want. When they have finished their testimony, the beast from the bottomless pit (this is the beast that Mystery Babylon rides, with 10 horns which are 10 kings – Rev. 17:8, 12) will kill them. They will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, then come back to life and ascend into heaven. In the same hour there will be a great earthquake, and following this, we are told that the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly. In Revelation 8:13, following the sounding of the fourth trumpet, we are told of an angel declaring 3 woes of the 3 remaining trumpets, which will sound. Revelation 13 speaks of the beast from the sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his head 10 crowns. This same description is given of the beast that Babylon rides (Rev. 17), which we are told in Rev. 17:8 ascends out of the bottomless pit, which is locked until the fifth trumpet is sounded. Compare this beast with the one described by Daniel in Dan. 7:19-21. Each has 10 horns which are 10 kings. The beast from the sea, in Revelation 13:5-7, is given power to continue for forty-two months, during which time he makes war with the saints and overcomes them. Daniel also gives this prophecy in Daniel 7:25 “and they (the saints) are given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time (a year, 2 years, and half a year).” The standard year around the world until the 3rd century B.C. was 360 days. This was the Babylonian year, as well as the Jewish year. Extensive information is available explaining the reasons for a 360 day year, and when it was changed. The Bible uses a 360 day year in it’s prophetic computations. 1260 days equals 42 months of 30 days each, or 3.5 years of 360 days each. The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, until their testimony is done, and then they are overcome by the beast (Rev. 11:7). According to Daniel 7:21-22, the beast, whose 10 horns are 10 kings, prevails over the saints until the Ancient of Days comes, and the kingdom is given to the saints. The duration that the beast overcomes the saints is 3 1/2 years, or 42 months (Dan 7:25, Rev. 13:3-5). Jesus returns to earth to establish His rule, which the saints will share, at the end of the 70th week (Dan. 9:24-27, Rev. 20:4). If the beast overcomes the saints for 3 1/2 years ending at the Second Coming, and the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years until the beast overcomes them, then they must be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years. The first woe is the fifth trumpet, a plague of “locusts” from the abyss. The second woe is the sounding of the sixth trumpet loosing 4 angels bound at the Euphrates to kill 1/3 of mankind, and 200,000,000 ‘horsemen’ with power to kill. In Rev. 9:11, following the fifth trumpet, we are told that the first woe is past, and two more are coming. In Revelation 11:14, “the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly”. These judgments are happening sequentially, one finishing before the next begins. If the second woe is passed 3 1/2 days after the middle of the Tribulation, when the two witnesses ascend to heaven, the first woe, or the fifth trumpet, begins 5 months or more before the midpoint. Therefore, the seals are opened and first six trumpets are sounded prior to three and one half days after the middle of the tribulation. The first half of the tribulation as well as the second half will contain the outpouring of the wrath of God. The only question now that remains is when exactly does this wrath begin. We know it begins before the abomination of desolation. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1223 | Is Spirit removed from earth at Rapture | Rev 7:9 | mark d seyler | 158466 | ||
Hi Kalos, I'd like to add one more verse to your list: Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call. (LITV) "and to all those afar off" - including during the Seventieth Week. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1224 | Is Spirit removed from earth at Rapture | Rev 7:9 | mark d seyler | 158468 | ||
Hi Kalos, That was a very interesting article. I am looking forward to re-reading it tonight in greater detail. Just at first look, there is something that greatly interests me here. Following is some of my study on 2Thess 2, which I have previously posted: Regarding the “falling away” of II Thessalonians 2:3 “apostasia”, this word has been either transliterated as apostasy (i.e. falling away from the faith) or translated “falling away” in nearly all translations of the past 400 years. It was translated as departure (i.e. rapture) in the 1599 Geneva and the 1535 Tyndale. This word is used only one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21. “And they were informed about you, that you teach falling away from Moses, telling all the Jews throughout the nations not to circumcise their children, nor to walk in the customs.” In this context, it can only mean a forsaking from belief. The verb form is used 10 times to mean departing, 2 times to mean withdrew, and once leaving the faith. The roots of this word are apo – away, and hestemi – stand, “to stand away from.” To quote Marv Rosenthal (something I never dreamed that I would ever do): "Michael does not "stand up" to help Daniel's people during the Great Tribulation. He "stands still" or "desists" from his normal role as defender of Israel, thus permitting the Great Tribulation to occur. In other words, the Great Tribulation is not the cause for Michael to come to Israel's defense. Rather, it is because he desists from defending her that the Great Tribulation occurs. The expression "stand up" is the translation of the Hebrew word amad. Amad simply means to "stand." It does not mean to "stand up," and it does not mean to "stand still." It simply means to "stand." If a man seated and inactive were said to amad, he would "stand up." However, if a man already standing and active were said to amad, he would "stand still," or desist, in his activity." While I disagree with Rosenthal's rapture view, this is a very interesting point he brings out, and I think it has very good exgetical support from 2 Thess. Thank you for sharing this with us! Love in Christ, Mark |
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1225 | "Two witnesses." When? Who? | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 136505 | ||
Hi Mommapbs, What part do you think our level of devotion to Christ plays in apostasy, or, for that matter, how well we learn true doctrine? Love in Christ Jesus, Mark |
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1226 | "Two witnesses." When? Who? | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 136564 | ||
2Th 2:1 And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived; 3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because--if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed--the son of the destruction, 4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God--the day doth not come. 5 Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, these things I said to you? Paul is talking about two things here, our gathering together unto Jesus, and the Day of Christ, otherwise known as the “Day of the Lord”. The Thessolonians were being told that the Day of the Lord, i.e. of judgement, had come, and that they had missed the rapture. Paul desires that they not be shaken, nor troubled, as if that day had already come – what day? The Day of the Lord. That day won’t come unless the falling away and revealing of the man of sin come first. Isaiah 13:9 Lo, the day of Jehovah doth come, Fierce, with wrath, and heat of anger, To make the land become a desolation, Yea, its sinning ones He destroyeth from it. The Day of the Lord is the time of wrath from which we are told over and over that we have been rescued. The Lord can return at any moment. Jesus, Paul, Peter, all teach expectancy. Expectancy goes right out the window if my escatology puts the revealing of the antichrist before the rapture. This is so much scripture pointing us towards the teaching of being removed before the Day of the Lord comes, as a sudden destruction, at the beginning of the seventieth week, it will not fit a posting on this site, and I invite any interested to e-mail me, and I would like to share the results of my just completed study on this subject. I truly wish to know only the truth as God gives it. After exchanging with some of you a few weeks ago, I undertook to again determine what the Bible says on this topic, and I am convinced more than ever that the pre-trib view is the correct one. Ialso happen to think we may well be persecuted before that comes, and I pray for the strength of the church. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1227 | "Two witnesses." When? Who? | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 136675 | ||
Hi mommapbs, It was considering the pre-wrath rapture that led me to re-look at these things. I realized that the rapture was more directly tied to wrath than to the 70th week. The question I ask is, “when does wrath come?” God does not wait until after the abomination of desolation. Since the Two Witnesses prophesy 3.5 years until overcome by the beast from the abyss (Rev 11), and the beast from the abyss overcomes the saints for 3.5 years until his power is taken away when God sets up His kingdom (Dan 7), the two witnesses prophecy for the first three and one half years of the 7 year tribulation. If that is true, then the seals are opened, and the first 6 trumpets sounded by the time the witnesses arise from death, 3.5 days after the middle of the tribulation (Rev 11). Since the 5th trumpet begins a plague that last 5 months, then these plagues must have started before the abomination of desolation. When I compare the events of the sixth seal and the first trumpet, this seems to be describing the same events prophesied in Ezekiel 38, which begins a 7 year time during which God performs a work in Israel, the beginning of which is also referred to as the day that God’s wrath comes up in His face. Like CDBJ pointed out, the same day sudden destruction comes is the same day the church is raptured. Isaiah 2 and 13, Ez 38, Rev 6, all speak of this day that is coming. Rev. and Ez let us know that it is at the beginning of the seventieth week, not the middle or end. Roman 11 adds to this, in that “hardness in part has come upon Israel until the fullness of the gentiles is come in” – the completion of the gentile bride before resuming the focus on Israel. The letters in Revelation show the close of the church in the Laodicean letter, before the unfolding of the seals, trumpets, and bowls. These are some of the reasons I have come to pre-trib. This is not comprehensive by any means. God bless you! Love in Christ, Mark |
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1228 | "Two witnesses." When? Who? | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 136746 | ||
Hi mommapbs, One of the beauties of the Lord is that He is faithful - no matter which view is the right one, He will take us in His time, and He will keep us until then. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1229 | rapture before wrath | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 150151 | ||
In Revelation 11 we are told of two witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. During this time, fire comes from their mouths to devour anyone who would try to hurt them. They can send any plague on the earth anytime they want. When they have finished their testimony, the beast from the bottomless pit (this is the beast that Mystery Babylon rides, with 10 horns which are 10 kings – Rev. 17:8, 12) will kill them. They will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, then come back to life and ascend into heaven. In the same hour there will be a great earthquake, and following this, we are told that the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly. In Rev. 8:13, following the sounding of the fourth trumpet, we are told of an angel declaring 3 woes of the 3 remaining trumpets, which will sound. Revelation 13 speaks of the beast from the sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his head 10 crowns. This same description is given of the beast that Babylon rides (Rev. 17), which we are told in Rev. 17:8 ascends out of the bottomless pit, which is locked until the fifth trumpet is sounded. Compare this beast with the one described by Daniel in Dan. 7:19-21. The beast from the sea, in Revelation 13:5-7, is given power to continue for forty-two months, during which time he makes war with the saints and overcomes them. Daniel also gives this prophecy in Daniel 7:25 “and they (the saints) are given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time (a year, 2 years, and half a year).” The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, until their testimony is done, and then they are overcome by the beast (Rev. 11:7). According to Daniel 7:21-22, the beast, whose 10 horns are 10 kings, prevails over the saints until the Ancient of Days comes, and the kingdom is given to the saints. The duration that the beast overcomes the saints is 3 1/2 years, or 42 months (Dan 7:25, Rev. 13:3-5). Jesus returns to earth to establish His rule, which the saints will share, at the end of the 70th week (Dan. 9:24-27, Rev. 20:4). If the beast overcomes the saints for 3 1/2 years ending at the Second Coming, and the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years until the beast overcomes them, then they must be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years. The second woe is the sounding of the sixth trumpet (loosing 4 angels bound at the Euphrates to kill 1/3 of mankind, and 200,000,000 ‘horsemen’ with power to kill). In Rev. 9:11, following the fifth trumpet (a five month plague of demonic ‘locusts’), we are told that the first woe is past, and two more are coming. In Revelation 11:14, “the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly”. These judgments are happening sequentially, one finishing before the next begins. If the second woe is passed 3 1/2 days after the middle of the Tribulation, the first woe, or the fifth trumpet, begins 5 months or more before the midpoint. Therefore, the seals are opened and trumpets sounded, at least through the fifth, and possibly the sixth trumpet, well before the middle of the 70th week. In Revelation 9:20, the trumpets are referred to as “plagues”, a transliteration from the Greek. In Revelation 15:1, the bowls are called “the last seven plagues”, indicating that they are part of a larger group of plagues, of which the trumpets are also part. The bowls are called the wrath of God in Revelation 16:1. In Revelation 15:1, we are told that the wrath of God is completed in the bowls, which implies His wrath is begun elsewhere. The judgment of Babylon is referred to as “plagues” in Revelation 18:4 and 8, and verse 8 specifies this comes from the Lord. So the trumpets, bowls, and the judgment of Babylon are all part of the same group of plagues, and are called God’s wrath. The trumpets and bowls are the wrath of God. The trumpets begin well before the middle of the 70th week, and well before the time that the pre-wrath view teaches that the church is raptured. The church will not experience God’s wrath, and will not wait until sometime in the middle of the 70th week to be removed from the earth. Rejoice, and lift up your head, for your redemption draws near! |
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1230 | timetable of the two witnesses | Rev 11:3 | mark d seyler | 159333 | ||
Revelation 11:3 “And I will give to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, dressed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:7 “And when they complete their witness, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war with them, and will overcome them, and will kill them.” LITV In Revelation 11 we are told of two witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. During this time, fire comes from their mouths to devour anyone who would try to hurt them. They can send any plague on the earth anytime they want. When they have finished their testimony, the beast from the bottomless pit (this is the beast that Mystery Babylon rides, with 10 horns which are 10 kings – Rev. 17:8, 12) will kill them. They will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, then come back to life and ascend into heaven. In the same hour there will be a great earthquake, and following this, we are told that the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly. In Revelation 8:13, following the sounding of the fourth trumpet, we are told of an angel declaring 3 woes of the 3 remaining trumpets, which will sound. Revelation 13 speaks of the beast from the sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his head 10 crowns. This same description is given of the beast that Babylon rides (Rev. 17), which we are told in Rev. 17:8 ascends out of the bottomless pit, which is locked until the fifth trumpet is sounded. Compare this beast with the one described by Daniel in Dan. 7:19-21. Each has 10 horns which are 10 kings. The beast from the sea, in Revelation 13:5-7, is given power to continue for forty-two months, during which time he makes war with the saints and overcomes them. Daniel also gives this prophecy in Daniel 7:25 “and they (the saints) are given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time (a year, 2 years, and half a year).” The standard year around the world until the 3rd century B.C. was 360 days. This was the Babylonian year, as well as the Jewish year. Extensive information is available explaining the reasons for a 360-day year, and when it was changed. The Bible uses a 360-day year in its prophetic computations. 1260 days equals 42 months of 30 days each, or 3.5 years of 360 days each. The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, until their testimony is done, and then they are overcome by the beast (Rev. 11:7). According to Daniel 7:21-22, the beast, whose 10 horns are 10 kings, prevails over the saints until the Ancient of Days comes, and the kingdom is given to the saints. The duration that the beast overcomes the saints is 3 1/2 years, or 42 months (Dan 7:25, Rev. 13:3-5). Jesus returns to earth to establish His rule, which the saints will share, at the end of the 70th week (Dan. 9:24-27, Rev. 20:4). If the beast overcomes the saints for 3 1/2 years ending at the Second Coming, and the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years until the beast overcomes them, then they must be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years. The first woe is the fifth trumpet, a plague of “locusts” from the abyss. The second woe is the sounding of the sixth trumpet loosing 4 angels bound at the Euphrates to kill 1/3 of mankind, and 200,000,000 ‘horsemen’ with power to kill. In Rev. 9:11, following the fifth trumpet, we are told that the first woe is past, and two more are coming. In Revelation 11:14, “the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly”. These judgments are happening sequentially, one finishing before the next begins. If the second woe is passed 3 1/2 days after the middle of the Tribulation, when the two witnesses ascend to heaven, the first woe, or the fifth trumpet, begins 5 months or more before the midpoint. Therefore, the seals are opened and first six trumpets are sounded prior to three and one half days after the middle of the tribulation. The first half of the tribulation as well as the second half will contain the outpouring of the wrath of God. The only question now that remains is when exactly does this wrath begin. We know it begins before the abomination of desolation. Any changes to the sequence of events in the Revelation would be arbitrary, since this book is filled with words and phrases such as "after this", "after these things", "and then". When taken as is, the Revelation is in complete harmony with the rest of the word, with no distortion required. |
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1231 | The Timeline of the Two Witnesses | Rev 11:7 | mark d seyler | 165845 | ||
A Basic Timetable In Revelation 11 we are told of two witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. During this time, fire comes from their mouths to devour anyone who would try to hurt them. They can send any plague on the earth anytime they want. When they have finished their testimony, the beast from the bottomless pit (that which Mystery Babylon rides, with 10 horns which are 10 kings – Rev. 17:8, 12) will kill them. They will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, then come back to life and ascend into heaven. In the same hour is a great earthquake, and following this, we are told that the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly. In Rev. 8:13, following the sounding of the fourth trumpet, we are told of an angel declaring 3 woes of the 3 remaining trumpets, which will sound. The first key here is that they prophesy until their testimony is done, and then they are overcome (Rev. 11:7). According to Daniel 7:21-22, the beast, whose 10 horns are 10 kings, prevails over the saints until the Ancient of Days comes, and the kingdom is given to the saints. The duration that the beast overcomes the saints is 3 1/2 years (Dan 7:25, Rev. 13:3-5). Jesus returns to earth to establish His rule, which the saints will share, at the end of the 70th week (Dan. 9:24-27, Rev. 20:4). If the beast overcomes the saints (Greek Hagios, or holy ones – those set apart for God’s use. This would include the two witnesses) for 3 1/2 years ending at the Second Coming, and the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years until the beast overcomes them, then they must be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years. Does it make any sense that when the beast is given power to overcome the saints, at the mid-point of the Seventieth Week, these two will withstand him, resisting him with their own works of power? If they are killed at the end of the second half of the Seventieth week, are they lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days after Jesus returns? You cannot say that certain saints will only be able to be overcome 3.5 years after the beast has been given to overcome “the saints”, i.e. all the saints. The two witnesses fulfill their mission during the first half, along with the 144,000. Then they are killed, the 144,000 translated to heaven, and angels take over the proclaiming of God’s message. This leads us to our second conclusion: The second key is in the second woe, the sounding of the sixth trumpet (loosing 4 angels bound at the Euphrates to kill 1/3 of mankind, and 200,000,000 ‘horsemen’ with power to kill). In Rev. 9:11, following the fifth trumpet (a five month plague of demonic ‘locusts’), we are told that the first woe is past, and two more are coming. In Revelation 11:14, “the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly”. These judgments are happening sequentially, one finishing before the next begins. If the second woe is passed 3 1/2 days after the middle of the Tribulation, the first woe, or the fifth trumpet, begins 5 months or more before the midpoint. Therefore, the seals are opened and trumpets sounded, at least through the fifth, and possibly the sixth, before the middle of the Tribulation. The seals are opened with sudden destruction as God removes the Church, and the Seventieth Week begins, as the world makes a deal with the Devil. God maintains a human witness, as a series of judgments, the Wrath of God, begin, affecting 1/3 portions of the the earth, water, and sky. 3 1/2 years later, the world worships the devil. The human witness is gone, and the angelic witness begins. A new series of judgments, the filling up of God’s wrath, begins, affecting the entire earth, water, and sky. This is timeline of the Seventieth week does not distort facts, does not re-arrange events that have been written sequentially, and accomodates all scriptures written of the end times time of judgment. If in fact the pre-wrath rapture were correct, and Jesus raptures the church following "the wrath of Satan" (this phrase comes from Rev. 12:17, as Satan, having great wrath, makes war with the remnant of the "seed of the woman" - those Jews who resist Satan but didn't flee to the wilderness.) anyway, if Jesus returns in glory, raptures the church, then procedes to judge the earth, then these two witness are prophesying for what must be well over 5 months, while Jesus and the armies of heaven kind of hang in the sky until all these plagues are finished, then as the two witnesses are being killed, Jesus is setting foot on the Mount of Olives. As the two witnesses are lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem while the whole world parties and sends presents to each other, Jesus is throwing the antichrist and the false prophet into the lake of fire. As the two witnesses come back to life and are called into heaven in the sight of all, Jesus is gatherering the nations to the valley of Jehosaphat for judgment. It just doesn't work. markdseyler@yahoo.com |
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1232 | When will 2 witnesses finish their work? | Rev 11:7 | mark d seyler | 175871 | ||
Why (imo) the Two-Witnesses Must have their ministry during the first half of the Seventieth Week: How is it that the two witnesses would lie dead in Jerusalem for 3 days AFTER the end of the Seventieth Week? And then ascend into heaven After Jesus stands again on the Mount of Olives? Why would the two witnesses be immune from the beast when both Daniel and John specify the beast has power to overcome the holy ones during the second half of the Seventieth Week? We would have to insert "Except" - Rev 13:7 And it was given to it to war with the saints, and to overcome them (Except the Two Witnesses), but that's not what it says. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1233 | The Timetable of the Tribulation | Rev 11:14 | mark d seyler | 175605 | ||
Revelation 11:3 “And I will give to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, dressed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:7 “And when they complete their witness, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war with them, and will overcome them, and will kill them.” LITV In Revelation 11 we are told of two witnesses who prophecy for 1260 days. During this time, fire comes from their mouths to devour anyone who would try to hurt them. They can send any plague on the earth anytime they want. When they have finished their testimony, the beast from the bottomless pit (this is the beast that Mystery Babylon rides, with 10 horns which are 10 kings – Rev. 17:8, 12) will kill them. They will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, then come back to life and ascend into heaven. In the same hour there will be a great earthquake, and following this, we are told that the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly. In Revelation 8:13, following the sounding of the fourth trumpet, we are told of an angel declaring 3 woes of the 3 remaining trumpets, which will sound. Revelation 13 speaks of the beast from the sea, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his head 10 crowns. This same description is given of the beast that Babylon rides (Rev. 17), which we are told in Rev. 17:8 ascends out of the bottomless pit, which is locked until the fifth trumpet is sounded. Compare this beast with the one described by Daniel in Dan. 7:19-21. Each has 10 horns which are 10 kings. The beast from the sea, in Revelation 13:5-7, is given power to continue for forty-two months, during which time he makes war with the saints and overcomes them. Daniel also gives this prophecy in Daniel 7:25 “and they (the saints) are given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time (a year, 2 years, and half a year).” The standard year around the world until the 3rd century B.C. was 360 days. This was the Babylonian year, as well as the Jewish year. Extensive information is available explaining the reasons for a 360 day year, and when it was changed. The Bible uses a 360 day year in it’s prophetic computations. 1260 days equals 42 months of 30 days each, or 3.5 years of 360 days each. The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, until their testimony is done, and then they are overcome by the beast (Rev. 11:7). According to Daniel 7:21-22, the beast, whose 10 horns are 10 kings, prevails over the saints until the Ancient of Days comes, and the kingdom is given to the saints. The duration that the beast overcomes the saints is 3 1/2 years, or 42 months (Dan 7:25, Rev. 13:3-5). Jesus returns to earth to establish His rule, which the saints will share, at the end of the 70th week (Dan. 9:24-27, Rev. 20:4). If the beast overcomes the saints for 3 1/2 years ending at the Second Coming, and the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years until the beast overcomes them, then they must be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years. The first woe is the fifth trumpet, a plague of “locusts” from the abyss. The second woe is the sounding of the sixth trumpet loosing 4 angels bound at the Euphrates to kill 1/3 of mankind, and 200,000,000 ‘horsemen’ with power to kill. In Rev. 9:11, following the fifth trumpet, we are told that the first woe is past, and two more are coming. In Revelation 11:14, “the second woe is past, and the third comes quickly”. These judgments are happening sequentially, one finishing before the next begins. If the second woe is passed 3 1/2 days after the middle of the Tribulation, when the two witnesses ascend to heaven, the first woe, or the fifth trumpet, begins 5 months or more before the midpoint of the Tribulation. Therefore, the seals are opened and first six trumpets are sounded prior to three and one half days after the middle of the tribulation. The first half of the tribulation, containing the first through fifth, and perhaps sixth, trumpets, as well as the second half will contain the outpouring of the wrath of God. The only question now that remains is when exactly during the first half does this wrath begin. We know it begins before the abomination of desolation. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1234 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | mark d seyler | 166240 | ||
Hi Ocelot, This 12th chapter of Revelation is a very interesting one to understand. I do not have the time at present to delve too deeply into it, but I will say these things. That it opens with the words "and a great sign appeared in heaven..." lets us know that this drops out of the narative, and begins a parenthetical section, which will contain symbolic imagery. Each of the symbols used come directly from the Old Testament. This chapter has references to Genesis, of who the woman is, Psalms and Isaiah, of Who the child is, and in vs 9 tells us who the dragon is. Verse 10 connects this chapter to the rest of the Revelation, allowing us to see how it fits. This verse begins, "then I heard a loud voice in heaven...", so this is no longer part of the sign, but re-enters the narrative. As the narrative reveals Satan had only just been thrown down, we know that happened just prior to the events the narrative is now describing. It's an extremely interesting chapter. But aren't they all? Love in Christ, Mark |
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1235 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | mark d seyler | 166285 | ||
Hi Kalos, Certainly this is true. While I disagree somewhat on the particular divisions of narrative and interlude, for instance I understand that sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude are part of the sequential narrative, clearly John's experience with the angel and the little book are not, as well as other portions. I always look for specific textual cues to let me know how to outline this book, and I find it is quite specific. We cannot have a correct understanding of this revelation unless we understand how these parenthetical passages fit. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1236 | Scriptural Support? | Rev 12:9 | mark d seyler | 159798 | ||
David, If what you say is true, then we have a serious problem, because John wrote that all the children of God will be like Him. 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." Jesus is not "like God", because Jesus is God. Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe in the doctrine of the Triune God - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit? Love in Christ, Mark |
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1237 | What Does 666 Mean? | Rev 13:18 | mark d seyler | 152996 | ||
This is a quote from Dr. Thomas Ice: Many have tried to figure out the identity of the Antichrist through numerical calculations. Such approaches will always fail and should not be attempted. Phone books are full of names that might add up. The wisdom of "counting the name" is not to be applied in our day, for that would be jumping the gun. Instead, it is to be applied by believers during the tribulation. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul teaches that during the current church age the Antichrist is being restrained (v. 6). Antichrist will not be "revealed" until "his time." The Holy Spirit's selection of the word "revealed" indicates that the identity of the Antichrist will be concealed until the time of his revelation at some point after the rapture. Thus, it is not possible to know before "his time" the identity of the Antichrist. Revelation makes it clear that when the time comes the identity of the Antichrist will be clear to believers. As noted above, Revelation makes it clear that every believer during the tribulation will know that to receive the mark of the beast means the rejection of Christ. This will be universally understood by Christians at that time. None of the suggestions of the past or any before the tribulation have merit. Revelation 13:17,18 clearly says that the number 666 will be the mark proposed for the right hand or forehead. No one in history has even proposed such a number in anything like tribulation conditions, so past guesses as to his identity can be nullified on this basis. The better part of wisdom is to be content that the identification is not yet available, but will be when the future false Christ ascends to his throne. The person to whom 666 applies must have been future to John's time, because John clearly meant the number to be recognizable to someone. If it was not discernible to his generation and those immediately following him-and it was not-the generation to whom it will be discernible must have lain (and still lies) in the future. Past generations have provided many illustrations of this future personage, but all past candidates have proven inadequate as fulfillments. Some have suggested that the mark of the beast will be the universal product code, a chip implanted under the skin, or an invisible mark requiring scanning technology to recognize it. Such applications do not align with what the Bible actually says. The mark of the beast-666-is not cashless technology or biometrics. The Bible speaks precisely about what the mark will be. It will be: • the Antichrist's mark, identified with his person • the actual number 666, not a representation • a mark, like a tattoo • visible to the naked eye • on you, not in you • recognized, not questioned • voluntary, not involuntary, thus not given through deception • used after the rapture, not before • used in the second half of the tribulation • needed to buy and sell • universally received by non-Christians, but universally rejected by Christians • show worship and allegiance to the Antichrist • promoted by the false prophet • the destiny of all receiving the mark will be eternal punishment in the lake of fire Probably no other number in history or in Biblical studies has captivated the minds of both Christians and non-Christians as "666." Even those who know nothing of the future plan of God as revealed in the Bible know there is significance to this number. Secular and religious writers, filmmakers, artists, and cultural critics allude to, portray, and expound upon it. It has been used and abused by evangelicals as well as others and has been the subject of much fruitless speculation. Too often sincere students of prophecy have tied the number to contemporary technology and its potential in an effort to demonstrate the relevance of their interpretation. Yet to do so is to put the "cart before the horse," for prophecy and the Bible do not gain authority or legitimacy because of culture or technology. You can read his entire article at: http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessage.cfm?MessageId(equal)EB0070X3(ampersan)GroupID(equal)2B005ZPE(ampersan)UCD(equal)pl2 (replace the three occurances of (equal) with the equal sign, and two occurances of (ampersan) with that symbol) |
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1238 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | mark d seyler | 161103 | ||
Thank you, Tim! There is one thing, however, that I must address, that my brother pointed out to me. I would like to subtract the following: As much as I would like to think that those who reject Jesus will one day no longer exist, will no longer be aware of the agonizing consequence of their choice, I do not believe that is what the Bible teaches. The fact is that I made that statement initially to SBoone trying to softpedal a truth which he did not want to accept. That was my error. I do not normally share this, but when people ask "how can we be happy in heaven when Mom didn't make it?" well, the time will come when we do not remember them anymore, but before that, we will understand the true meaning of their unrighteousness, and the righteousness of God's judgment. We will worship Him for our salvation, and we will worship Him for the righteous punishment of the wicked. That doesn't sound as nice to the natural man, but there it is. The fact is, all have the chance for mercy, these did not want it. Their choice. So to say that "I'd like to think that they would just be anihilated" would by implication say that God is not just, and may that be far from me. But thank you for your compliment, I will gladly accept it for the remainder, and thank you to my brother who chose rather to remain anonymous than to risk the appearance of division. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1239 | The Trinity and being tormented forever | Rev 14:9 | mark d seyler | 161160 | ||
Hi Towanda, What is the forever punishment of the unsaved? Here is some of what we are told: Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Matt 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Over and over we are told that the wicked will burn, and we know what that feels like, at least most of us do. Fire, burning, is torment. Eternal burning is eternal torment. We can only speculate as to why this is declared to be fire. But the Bible is clear that eternal, everlasting burning is what the unsaved can expect. This may simply be God giving fallen man their final wish, as they reject God, and want nothing to do with Him. Since God is the source of light, they have no light. Since God is the source of love, they have no love. Since God is the source of comfort, they have no comfort. Since God is the source of every good thing, they have no good thing. The only place left for them is the one which God prepared for the Devil, and his angels. Does this help? Let me know. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1240 | is the mark of the Beast in our minds? | Rev 14:9 | mark d seyler | 169819 | ||
Hi Brenda, That could be where they are getting it from. I checked the Greek for this verse, and it's definitely "on", or "upon", from "epi". So this would be a case where the NIV is truer to the original than the KJV. Love in Christ, Mark |
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