Results 1201 - 1220 of 1251
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Results from: Notes Author: mark d seyler Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1201 | Is asking for money false? | 2 John 1:10 | mark d seyler | 143702 | ||
NewCovenant7777, You have had much to say about "selling all", not being a part of the "mammon system", and many other terms that you do not define. I find for all your words there is little of substance that I understand you to be saying. Do you deny that Paul, and others which I think we would agree on the genuineness of their walk in Jesus, worked for a living, and in so doing, participated in the economy of the world? Do you suppose that, to sell his tents, Paul may have had to purchase tents? Believe me, I appreciate what you are saying towards our commitment to Christ. Certainly Jesus told some to sell all their possessions. But consider Zacchaeus, Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. 9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house. Salvation is come to this house. Before you add to this scripture, to tell us that Jesus would have later told Zacchaeus to "sell the other half", tell me where in the teachings of Paul, or Peter, or John, or Hebrews, etc. does the Bible teach us to follow this practice of selling our possessions? Certainly as God leads us individually. But to cast aspertions (sp?) with such a broad brush on the body of Christ, and such are of the ones you have been dialoging with, without either personal knowledge of their lives and walk, or actual scriptural backing to your statements, actively works against your message of, IF I understand you, the call to live holy, sacrifices lives. Jesus did not tell us all to sell our things. He does tell us all to deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him. The "sell out" required is in the heart, when I have not held back anything from Him. Again, I could not agree with you more that we must be crucified with Christ. This is a condition of the heart, not the wallet. God tells me to Luke 16:9 "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. Luke 16:11 "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? use the resources in this world, resources He has entrusted me with. If I follow a formula and not His leading in my life, how much blessing will I not receive for not being a part of His purposes? I would like to echo Brad's questions to you: At what church to you attend and fellowship? Love in Christ, Mark |
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1202 | Is asking for money false? | 2 John 1:10 | mark d seyler | 143758 | ||
Luis, My difficulties in discussing these things with you are these: You claim that this is not you speaking, but rather Christ speaking through you, yet you mis-quote me (I did not say Jesus never said "sell all", I said He did not say it to everyone), and misquote the Bible (Jesus slain from 'before' ? the foundation of the world - my Bible says from) - are these the words of Christ? You make the claim that the USA is Babylon - but where is this in scripture. I believe that what the Bible says is what it means, and Babylon is Babylon. If this is the statement Christ wanted to make (if He speaks through you) why did He not make it in scripture? Are you, or are you not, saying to me personally "You are calling good evil and evil good. You are guilty of the same thing the wicked servant was in Matt 25, you are calling The True God/Truth a "Hard God" because He doesn't sow or reap in your rebellion" You give a disclaimer at the beginning that this is not directed personally to me, yet your writting seems to belie this. So I am confused. The point is, you don't know me. Nothing I have written is contradictory to the Bible. I challenge you to peruse my profile and past posts, written about many subjects, to gain a greater understanting of who I am, before you judge me. All that I have, and all that I am, is the Lord's. My works, though you do not see them, show this. Have I given you any indication that I "blend in" with my culture", that I compromise my faith? But we do live on the earth. Paul taught that we should not seek to change our station in life, but rather to use it towards God's kingdom. The one whom you mention that was punished by the Lord he had called "a hard man", was punished for failing to use the money God had entrusted him with! He expected to receive it back with more. This is not that I advocate playing the market, but we must follow and obey as God leads us. I work for a living, and pay rent for a roof. I give sacrificially, and God takes care of my needs. My time is a more valuable asset, and I give of that even more. My faith in the faithfulness of Christ is my sabbath rest. God requires us to live dead to the flesh, and alive to Christ. Risen with His resurrection, we walk in the newness of life. These are very plain truths, expressed plainly in the scripture. We need not add to them, or confuse them by esoteric terminology. Not everyone is called to be an apostle. Not all are called to be pastors, nor is the entire body an eye. Some of us are called to bless our employers and be faithful to work, to tithe to our church, to provide for our wives, to give to the poor, to let Jesus' light shine through us in the supermarket line. "Judge not, lest you be judged." Love in Christ, Mark |
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1203 | Is asking for money false? | 2 John 1:10 | mark d seyler | 143767 | ||
Thank you Brad! I personally think that I was just the lightening rod for the strike that was going to come anyway to someone. Really I just feel like "What was that?????" I fellowship at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa CA. As a church, we have been used by the Lord to plant over 1400 churches, in nearly every country of the world. We have sent out hundreds of missionaries, have established several Bible Colleges including Russia and Romania, and our newest will also include an orphanage in Brazil. We have established an international radio network (CSN) with not only our church's teaching, but other churches as well. We have active home fellowships, probibly 25 weekly large group Bible studies, and many small discipleship, fellowship, and prayer groups. We give clothing to the forest fire victims, and turkeys to the poor at thanksgiving and Christmas. We are sending a team to provide finacial and physical assistance to the tsunami victims. We established "For Zion's Sake" at Calvary Chapel Jerusalem, supplying the material needs of ingathered Jews. We have sent, with our own couriers, literally hundreds of thousands of Bibles into China. Our internet resources are access by millions, including books on doctine, commentary, and our Pastor Chuck's sermons for the past 12 years of verse by verse teaching, and without cost. Of course, I say "we", but I really mean He! Praise Him!!! It is the LORD Who has done this through us, all bought with money, with the world's money, using the world's internet, and the world's radios, and so on. We go to work and we go to church and we do our best and that seems like very little, but God is incredible, going so far beyond our dreams! I rejoice in the way our Lord redeems us, and not only us, but what we had previously squandered on our own pleasures, now He uses it (our resources) to His glory, and then gives us eternal reward! Thank you for your kind words, and your encouragement, as others also have been encouraging to me. And especially, thank you for your lucid and meaningful posts! ;-) Love in Christ, Mark |
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1204 | Is asking for money false? | 2 John 1:10 | mark d seyler | 143768 | ||
Thank you Brad! I personally think that I was just the lightening rod for the strike that was going to come anyway to someone. Really I just feel like "What was that?????" I fellowship at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa CA. As a church, we have been used by the Lord to plant over 1400 churches, in nearly every country of the world. We have sent out hundreds of missionaries, have established several Bible Colleges including Russia and Romania, and our newest will also include an orphanage in Brazil. We have established an international radio network (CSN) with not only our church's teaching, but other churches as well. We have active home fellowships, probibly 25 weekly large group Bible studies, and many small discipleship, fellowship, and prayer groups. We give clothing to the forest fire victims, and turkeys to the poor at thanksgiving and Christmas. We are sending a team to provide finacial and physical assistance to the tsunami victims. We established "For Zion's Sake" at Calvary Chapel Jerusalem, supplying the material needs of ingathered Jews. We have sent, with our own couriers, literally hundreds of thousands of Bibles into China. Our internet resources are access by millions, including books on doctine, commentary, and our Pastor Chuck's sermons for the past 12 years of verse by verse teaching, and without cost. Of course, I say "we", but I really mean He! Praise Him!!! It is the LORD Who has done this through us, all bought with money, with the world's money, using the world's internet, and the world's radios, and so on. We go to work and we go to church and we do our best and that seems like very little, but God is incredible, going so far beyond our dreams! I rejoice in the way our Lord redeems us, and not only us, but what we had previously squandered on our own pleasures, now He uses it (our resources) to His glory, and then gives us eternal reward! Thank you for your kind words, and your encouragement, as others also have been encouraging to me. And especially, thank you for your lucid and meaningful posts! ;-) Love in Christ, Mark |
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1205 | Will miracles arise in the last days? | Revelation | mark d seyler | 133976 | ||
Hi Reighnskye, Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. There is absolutely nothing in the text to indicate this is anything less the the coming reality. The lying wonders will be real, the death of those who refuse to worship the beast will be real, and the eternal punishment of those who do will be real. There are places that say something is a symbol. "I saw a great sign in heaven..." in chapter 12, but this kind of language is not used here. And this is further substantiated by II Thess 2:8-9 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Again, there is nothing here to indicate this is symbolic, or anything less than an accurate realistic description of what will happen. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1206 | Interpreting Revelation | Revelation | mark d seyler | 190465 | ||
Ezekiel 43:6-11 (6) And I heard one speaking to me from the house. And standing beside me was a Man. (7) And He said to me, Son of man, the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, there where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever, even the house of Israel shall not defile My holy name any more, they nor their kings, by their fornication, nor by the corpses of their kings in their high places. (8) In their setting of their threshold by My threshold, and their door post beside My door post, and the wall between Me and them, even they have defiled My holy name by their abominations that they have done. And I consumed them in My anger. (9) Now let them put away their fornication and the corpses of their kings from Me, and I will dwell in their midst forever. (10) You, son of man, declare to the house of Israel, the temple house, and they will blush from their iniquities. And let them measure its size. (11) And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, the form of the house, and its arrangement, and its exits, and its entrances, and all its forms, and all its statutes, and all its forms, and all its laws, make them known to them. And write them in their sight, so that they may observe all its form, and all its statutes, and do them. Hi Cheri, This, to me, is the key passage to these chapters. Ezekiel is to declare to Israel the temple God wants them to build, and if Israel is ashamed of all they have done, then they are to fulfill this commandment for the temple, and God will dwell in their midst. So Ezekiel declared this prophecy to them in the Babylonian captivity. But they did not do this, and we still look for the day in which it will happen. Many expect this temple to be built in the millenial kingdom. I'm one of those :-) Does this help? Love in Christ, Mark |
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1207 | Revealing Jesus | Rev 1:1 | mark d seyler | 165858 | ||
The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Remember what this Book is: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, This Book was given to show us what must quickly take place. Not to hide it, conceal it, but to show us. This Revelation is not a difficult Book to understand. It contains MANY timing and sequence cues, as well as many textual cues to let us know what is not part of the sequence. Many people claim that it cannot be understood. Many others make claims about how such and such part of the sequential narative actual goes somewhere else. They do this because their concept of what will happen does not match Scripture. Rather then rearrange their concept, they would rather rearrange Scripture. But without firm textual evidence, do not accept that. It is the "wisdom of man" attempting to be judge over the Bible. Accept only what the text supports. Remember, this is a revealing. The truth is there to be seen. I have had opportunity to rearrange my concept a number of times, and may do so again, as I continue to study. I welcome any input that is Scripturally sound and founded. Love in Christ, Mark markdseyler@yahoo.com |
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1208 | It shall come to pass in the last days | Rev 1:1 | mark d seyler | 183073 | ||
Referring to Revelateion 1:1 ". . . the things which must soon take place. . . " Quote: "'This Greek clause is often used by pretribulationists to support their argument of imminency," This statement was recently made in an answer to a question concerning the Greek "en tachei", "in quickness". As an avid student of prophecy, I am not aware of any Pre-Tribulation Rapture teacher who uses this verse to support the idea that the Bible teaches us that the rapture could happen at any time, and that there are no visible signs or events that will precede it. If there are any that use this verse in this way, even so, it is certainly not the prevalent position. This is a statement from John Walvoord in commentary of this verse: "That which Daniel declared would occur "in the latter days" is here described as "shortly" (Gr., en tachei), that is, "quickly or suddenly coming to pass," indicating rapidity of execution after the beginning takes place. The idea is not that the event may occur soon, but that when it does, it will be sudden (cf. Luke 18:8; Acts 12:7; 22:18; 25:4; Rom. 16:20). A similar word, tachys, is translated "quickly" seven times in Revelation (2:5, 16; 3:11; 11:14; 22:7, 12, 20)." Thomas Ice referrences this quote as well in hes writings, showing his agreement with that understanding. These two gentlemen are unquestionable two of the strongest and most widely known proponents of the Pre-Trib rapture among those serious students of this view. Tim LaHaye and J. Dwight Pentacost are also in agreement with this understanding, that Rev. 1:1 is not to be understood as showing the timing of these events, but rather the nature in which they happen. So while Van Kampen claims that his interpretation of "en tachei" is in disagreement with pre-trib rapture teaching, in fact it is not, and as such, this is a "straw man" argument. It is irrelevant to the discussion, and presents a false view of the opposing side. At best, he is taking a minority view and persenting it as mainstream, although, personally, I am not aware of any generally recognized pre-trib rapture teacher who teaches this verse as Van Kampen claims. If you would like more information regarding errors contained on the www.revelationcommentary website, or www.solagroup, please email me at markdseyler@yahoo.com. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1209 | time of mourning | Rev 1:7 | mark d seyler | 150132 | ||
Some observations on the material presented by www.revelationcommentary.com: This web site is presented by the same people as Sola Group It did not take me long to notice numerous errors as I read this material. Please be advised to compare anything you read with scripture. Always study scripture for yourself, turning to commentators only to supplament your own individual study. Them “””3. Every eye - universalistic (both Jews and Gentiles as indicated by the phrase "those who pierced Him.") 4. Those who pierced Him - Israel and Romans - Acts 7:51-52; John 19:31, 37; ca. Zechariah 12:10 5. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him - refers to mourning out of despair at the return of Christ by the wicked. This is the sense of Matthew 24:30. While some would argue that Revelation 1:7 is a reference to the Lord’s return at Armageddon, a closer examination supports the parousia of Christ. This is when He gathers His church to heaven and begins to punish the wicked on earth with His Day of the Lord’s wrath. John uses the future tense to refer to the mourning of the wicked, i.e. they will mourn. John indicates that the wicked begin to mourn when the Lord is seen coming with the clouds and not before. Question: wouldn’t the wicked have already experienced God’s wrath in the form of the trumpets and bowl judgments if this were an Armageddon return? It is inconceivable that the wicked have experienced the wrath of God before the Lord’s return at Armageddon, but have not mourned. “”” Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Me The Bible says men blasphemed God, not mourned. No, it is not inconceivable to me that men could experience God’s wrath and yet not mourn, but rather be filled with rage and bitterness and unrepentance. Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Re 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. Re 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. The mourning comes at the end of the 70th week, after the pouring out of wrath, when Jesus appears in power and great glory. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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1210 | Can you tell me where was jesus for thos | Rev 1:18 | mark d seyler | 144808 | ||
Hi Janae, Here are some thoughts I have had on this subject. Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Is paradise, in this passage, heaven, or is is Abraham's Bosom? Depending on how you answer this makes a lot of difference in how you understand this issue. Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) When Jesus "led captivity captive", how did He lead them, but to go to where they were? And where were these captives? When we say "Jesus descended to hell", remember hell had two compartments, the side of torment, and the side of comfort, and I do not say Jesus went to the side of torment, but rather to the side of comfort. Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Again, a lot depends on how literally you interpret this prophecy. My thinking is that after Jesus died, He descended to the lower parts of the earth, into Abraham's Bosom, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and to open their prison, after which He led them out, having taken captivity captive, and ascended, with them, on high. I know this is not the only way to interpret these passages, but this is the way that makes the most sense to me. Love in Christ, Mark |
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1211 | Revelation Outline | Rev 1:19 | mark d seyler | 150131 | ||
Some observations on the material presented by www.revelationcommentary.com: This web site is presented by the same people as Sola Group It did not take me long to notice numerous errors as I read this material. Please be advised to compare anything you read with scripture. Always study scripture for yourself, turning to commentators only to supplament your own individual study. Them “”The first chapter of Revelation is "the things you have seen." Revelation two and three cover "the things which are"; and Revelation four through twenty-one are "the things which shall take place after these things." The disproportionate attention given to the "things which shall take place after these things (Revelation 4-21)," suggests that the temporal outline of the book is not the key to its structure. This is particularly true given that the seven churches receive promises that are both first century and futuristic in nature. In other words, there is an overlap of "the things which are" and "things which shall take place after these things." This undermines any attempt to force a strict interpretation of Revelation 1:19 as the dogmatic outline of the book of Revelation.”” Me I may describe my day, in saying, “I got out of bed, showered, and made lunch. Now I am driving to work. When I get there, I will check my email, write orders, make phone calls, write letters, have meetings, go to lunch, etc.” I have included much more detail about what comes after I arrive at work, however, this is no wise affects the chronology of what I am saying. Simply because a portion of scripture contains more information than another portion in no wise gives us a reason to ignore the chronological indicators given plainly in the text. The Outline of the Book of the Revelation in 1:19: “Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things (meta tauta).” This describes sequential narrative, one thing being before another. Rev 4:1 “After these things (meta tauta) I saw. And behold, a door being opened in Heaven! And I heard the first voice as a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you what needs to happen after these things (meta tauta).” To simplify what John is saying about his visions, “After these things I saw what must happen after these things” Again, he is describing a sequential narrative. The first words in Rev. 7:1 are “meta tauta”, or “after these things”. John describes the sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude appearing in heaven. In chapter 8, the seventh seal is opened, and seven angels are given trumpets, and begin to sound them. Seals, Trumpets, and Bowl happen in order. Any interpretation that overlaps or rearranges these is not supported by the text. The promises given to the church in these letters are in fact contemporary and futuristic, however that does not in and of itself mean that there is an overlap between the “things which are” (i.e. the things of the church), and that which happens after (i.e. after the things of the church). Promises given to the true church in the seven letters are pertaining to its earthly existance, until the time of the 70th week, and to its heavenly existance, but not to any time period involving the 70th week. “Jezebel” and her adulterers will be cast into “great tribulation”; this is not the true church. Loadicea will be “spat out”; this is not the true church. Philedelphia will be “kept from” the hour of testing which is coming to “try them that dwell upon the earth”; this is the true church. If you keep the children from the test period at school, do you: A) Send them into the room, and not let anyone near them with a test? Or B) Not send them into the room? What is the plain, simple, and true meaning of these verses? 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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1212 | a simple outline | Rev 1:19 | mark d seyler | 150137 | ||
Some observations on the material presented by www.revelationcommentary.com: This web site is presented by the same people as Sola Group It did not take me long to notice numerous errors as I read this material. Please be advised to compare anything you read with scripture. Always study scripture for yourself, turning to commentators only to supplament your own individual study. Them “””Revelation 1:19 "Write therefore (1) the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall take place after these things. 1. A possible key to understanding the composition of the book of Revelation. The things...have seen - Christ the revelator in chapter one. The things...are - seven churches in chapter two and three. The things...shall take place...- in chapters 4-22 However, this outline is overly simplistic and has very little exegetical support. This is particularly the case when one realizes that there is no time difference between the vision of Christ in chapter one of the Revelation and the events of chapters two and three. 2. One must be careful at this point not to push the significance of this outline too far. The significance of the relationship of the church to Revelation 4-22 cannot be determined simply by recognizing the absence of the term church from these critical chapters. The absence of the term church from the Old Testament certainly does not mean that there is no applicable value for the church in the Old Testament.””” Me The outline is so simple anyone can follow it. The words are few and clear and plainly understood, and are reinforced later in the book, in 4:1, and in 7:1. The claim that this statement has “very little exegetical support” is without foundation. The outline is the guideline for understanding this book. Ignore it to your own detriment. The Church is not mentioned in the Old Testament because the Church did not exist in the Old Testament. The Old Testament time is the time of Israel. The Church is not mentioned in the scriptures of the 70th week because the Church is not on the earth after the beginning of the 70th week. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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1213 | The Structure of the Revelation | Rev 1:19 | mark d seyler | 150673 | ||
You wrote "The first chapter of Revelation is "the things you have seen." Revelation two and three cover "the things which are"; and Revelation four through twenty-one are "the things which shall take place after these things." The disproportionate attention given to the "things which shall take place after these things (Revelation 4-21)," suggests that the temporal outline of the book is not the key to its structure. This is particularly true given that the seven churches receive promises that are both first century and futuristic in nature. In other words, there is an overlap of "the things which are" and "things which shall take place after these things." This undermines any attempt to force a strict interpretation of Revelation 1:19 as the dogmatic outline of the book of Revelation.” I may describe my day, in saying, “I got out of bed, showered, and made lunch. Now I am driving to work. When I get there, I will check my email, write orders, make phone calls, write letters, have meetings, go to lunch, etc.” I have included much more detail about what comes after I arrive at work, however, this is no wise affects the chronology of what I am saying. Simply because a portion of scripture contains more information than another portion in no wise gives us a reason to ignore the chronological indicators given plainly in the text. The Outline of the Book of the Revelation in 1:19: “Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things (meta tauta).” This describes sequential narrative, one thing being before another. Rev 4:1 “After these things (meta tauta) I saw. And behold, a door being opened in Heaven! And I heard the first voice as a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you what needs to happen after these things (meta tauta).” To simplify what John is saying about his visions, “After these things I saw what must happen after these things” Again, he is describing a sequential narrative. To view this outline in any other way ignores the plain, simple meaning of this text. The first words in Rev. 7:1 are “meta tauta”, or “after these things”. John describes the sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude appearing in heaven. In chapter 8, the seventh seal is opened, and seven angels are given trumpets, and begin to sound them. Seals, Trumpets, and Bowl happen in order. Any interpretation that overlaps or rearranges these is not supported by the text. The promises given to the church in these letters are in fact contemporary and futuristic, however that does not in and of itself mean that there is an overlap between the “things which are” (i.e. the things of the church), and that which happens after (i.e. after the things of the church). Promises given to the true church in the seven letters are pertaining to its earthly existance, until the time of the 70th week, and to its heavenly existance, but not to any time period involving the 70th week. “Jezebel” and her adulterers will be cast into “great tribulation”; this is not the true church. Loadicea will be “spat out”; this is not the true church. Philedelphia will be “kept from” the hour of testing which is coming to “try them that dwell upon the earth”; this is the true church. If you keep the children from the test period at school, do you: A) Send them into the room, and not let anyone near them with a test? Or B) Not send them into the room? What is the plain, simple, and true meaning of these verses? 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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1214 | The Structure of the Revelation | Rev 1:19 | mark d seyler | 150675 | ||
Hi Tim, The things which you have seen - this would be John's first vision, correct? The things which are - this does not refer to a vision, but rather to what is happening contemporary to John. The things which will take place after these things - the phrase in question: We're looking at this in one of two ways, either "write the things which will take place after these visions" or "write the things which will take place after these things that are now". Four times "things" appears in this sentence. The first three, I think we agree, refer to the contents of the visions. Do we have any reason to think that the fourth does not as well? If we take the plainest, simplest meaning, for lack of any reason to think otherwise, then we must see this as a progression of events. So I would say, yes, it could describe the order of the vision, but I don't see any reason why it would. And when combined with vs. such as 4:1 and 7:1, this conclusion seems inescapable. I find texual cues throughout this book indicating a linear flow of events. Do you see any that show overlapping or rearranging of events? Love in Christ, Mark |
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1215 | Understanding Prophecy | Rev 1:19 | mark d seyler | 165856 | ||
Prophecy is viewed in three different ways, literal, symbolic, and allegorical. Literal prophecy happens exactly as written. Symbolic uses defined symbols. Allegorical interpretations use prophecy to describe non-prophetic concepts and processes. In the Bible, prophecy is fulfilled literally. Every place the Bible records the fulfillment of a prophecy, it¡¦s a literal fulfillment. Israel¡¦s captivity lasted 70 years (Jer 25). Jesus is born in Bethlehem (Micah 5), and so on. Prophetic fulfillments recorded in history are literal. Tyre was scraped into the sea, and is a place for the spreading of nets (Ez 26), the Greek Empire was divided into fourths (Dan 8, 11). Israel was born in a day (Isaiah 66). Israel is exporting fruit around the world (Isaiah 27). Symbolic prophecy is stated as such. Ezekiel, in chapter 4, is told to label a brick ¡§Jerusalem¡¨, use a cooking iron for a siege wall. These are symbols of the siege of Jerusalem. He is told to lie on one side 390 days for the iniquity of Israel, and 40 days for the iniquity of Judah, one day for one year. The text tells us these meanings. We cannot simply choose our own meanings for things in the Bible. The only symbolic interpretations we can rely on as accurate are those given in the Bible. Allegorical interpretations ignore the possibility of an actual fulfillment. Are prophecies in sequence? Look for textual indicators. What does the text say? The Outline of the Book of the Revelation in 1:19: ¡§Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things (meta tauta).¡¨ This describes sequential narrative, one thing after another. Rev 4:1 ¡§After these things (meta tauta) I saw. And behold, a door being opened in Heaven! And I heard the first voice as a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you what needs to happen after these things (meta tauta).¡¨ To simplify what John is saying about his visions, ¡§After these things I saw what must happen after these things¡¨ Again, he is describing a sequential narrative. The first words in Rev. 7:1 are ¡§meta tauta¡¨, or ¡§after these things¡¨. John describes the sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude appearing in heaven. In chapter 8, the seventh seal is opened, and seven angels are given trumpets, and begin to sound them. In chapter 10, John is being addressed, this is clearly not part of the narrative, and interrupts it. Chapter 11, regarding the two witnesses, describes events that happen over the course of 3.5 years, and again, this is plainly stated. Chapter 11 continues with events that happen ¡§quickly¡¨ afterward (vs. 14). Chapter 12 opens with the words ¡§And a great sign was seen in the heavens¡¨; this part uses symbols. This begins a section where John writes a series of short vignettes, which can all be related to the mid-point of the trib, and show events that happen during the course of the tribulation. The narrative is re-entered in chapter 14:1, as John writes: ¡§I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on Mount Zion¡¨. Kai eidon, kai eidouƒn ¡§and I saw, and you see¡¨ ¡§Eidon¡¨ is first person indicative, ¡§eidou¡¨ is second person imperative. ¡§You are to see what I saw.¡¨ There is something there to be seen. In Rev. 15:1, the ¡§bowl judgments¡¨ are ¡§the seven last plagues¡¨, after the other plagues. The trumpets are also called plagues in Rev. 9:20. The ¡§seven last plagues¡¨ must happen after the other plagues. In 17:1 ¡§And one of the seven angels having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying to me, Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on the many waters¡¨. John is again taken outside the sequence. Seals, Trumpets, Bowl happen in order. Any interpretation that overlaps or rearranges these is not supported by the text. (i.e. some teach the 6th seal happens at the end of the tribulation, after the trumpets and bowls) An example I recently heard of taking verses out of sequence comes from 14:1 ¡§And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on Mount Zion!¡¨ The teacher stated ¡§This is after the tribulation, because Jesus doesn¡¦t stand on Mount Zion until then.¡¨ I just cannot find any place in the Bible that tells us that Jesus does not stand on Mount Zion until later. There are 166 references to Mount Zion in the Bible. Many refer to Mount Zion as God¡¦s dwelling place. In Zech. 14, God will stand on the Mount of Olives on the day that He comes to fight against those who have gathered against Jerusalem, but this does not require that He will not be seen on Zion at another time. Since the account is given as sequential narative, its better to rearrange your view than to rearrange Scripture. Know what is required, and what is prohibited in a scripture. Know if an interpretation given by someone actually has textual foundation, and not that it just fits their pet theory. markdseyler@yahoo.com |
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1216 | How do you view Rev 2:1-7 | Rev 2:1 | mark d seyler | 127032 | ||
WOW!!!! I just read your post. What a mind-blower! I am in a constant state of amazement of how wonderfully God has given us His Word. Thank you for my latest dose! Love in Christ, Mark |
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1217 | How do you view Rev 2:1-7 | Rev 2:1 | mark d seyler | 127033 | ||
Maybe I didn't do this right, because my post didn't link to Emmaus' post regarding the OT correlation to the letters to the churches in Rev. so again - - WOW!!!! Mark |
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1218 | Jezebel and Thyatira | Rev 2:20 | mark d seyler | 150135 | ||
Some observations on the material presented by www.revelationcommentary.com: This web site is presented by the same people as Sola Group It did not take me long to notice numerous errors as I read this material. Please be advised to compare anything you read with scripture. Always study scripture for yourself, turning to commentators only to supplament your own individual study. Them “””3c. Great tribulation - is used again in Revelation 7:14 with the definite article. Matthew 24:21 records the Lord’s prediction of a future time of "great tribulation." In Matthew 24, the Lord indicates that He will return after a "great tribulation." Revelation 2:22 indicates that unfaithful bond-servants will be cast into a "great tribulation." Revelation 7:14 posits that an incalculable host suddenly appears in heaven who come out from the midst of "the great tribulation." That members of the church at Thyatira will be cast into "a great tribulation" demands the presence of the church of Thyatira on earth during "a great tribulation." This effectively places this punishment outside the eschatological "great tribulation" connected with Daniel’s Seventieth Week. However, the fact that unfaithful members of the church at Thyatira could suffer "a great tribulation" certainly leaves room for the church to suffer "the great tribulation."””” Me This states that members of the Thyatira church will be cast into “great tribulation”, but that is not what the Bible says. This is the actual quote: Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. The church at Thyatira allows Jezebel to teach and seduce Jesus’ servants to commit fornication. Jezebel did not repent. Jezebel, and those that commit adultery with her (not the ones committing fornication – Jesus’ servants) will be cast into great tribulation. Nothing in this text says that the Thyatira church will be cast into great tribulation. The church will not suffer the Great Tribulation. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This is just scratching the surface of “revelationcommentary.com.” The more I looked, the more misrepresentations, mishandling of scripture, and incorrect teaching I found. I apologize for taking up so much space. Something in me just burns in my heart when I see scripture not being taught correctly. |
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1219 | After these things | Rev 4:1 | mark d seyler | 159397 | ||
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. The Solagroup material states: “The first chapter of Revelation is "the things you have seen." Revelation two and three cover "the things which are"; and Revelation four through twenty-one are "the things which shall take place after these things." The disproportionate attention given to the "things which shall take place after these things (Revelation 4-21)," suggests that the temporal outline of the book is not the key to its structure. This is particularly true given that the seven churches receive promises that are both first century and futuristic in nature. In other words, there is an overlap of "the things which are" and "things which shall take place after these things." This undermines any attempt to force a strict interpretation of Revelation 1:19 as the dogmatic outline of the book of Revelation.” My comment: I may describe my day, in saying, “I got out of bed, showered, and made lunch. Now I am driving to work. When I get there, I will check my email, write orders, make phone calls, write letters, have meetings, go to lunch, etc.” I have included much more detail about what comes after I arrive at work, however, this is no wise affects the chronology of what I am saying. To apply the same logic as the solagroup, we would have to say that since I gave more detail about my day at work, that must mean that while these meetings and such are happening, I am still driving to work. What? Simply because a portion of scripture contains more information than another portion in no wise gives us a reason to ignore the chronological indicators given plainly in the text. Does this sound like a sound method of interpreting scripture? “This passage says more than that passage”??? The Outline of the Book of the Revelation in 1:19: “Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things (meta tauta).” This describes sequential narrative, one thing being before another. Rev 4:1 “After these things (meta tauta) I saw. And behold, a door being opened in Heaven! And I heard the first voice as a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you what needs to happen after these things (meta tauta).” To simplify what John is saying about his visions, “After these things I saw what must happen after these things” Again, he is describing a sequential narrative. The first words in Rev. 7:1 are “meta tauta”, or “after these things”. John describes the sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude appearing in heaven. In chapter 8, the seventh seal is opened, and seven angels are given trumpets, and begin to sound them. Seals, Trumpets, and Bowl happen in order. Any interpretation that overlaps or rearranges these is not supported by the text. The two witnesses come back to life 3 1/2 days after the middle of the 70th week, when antichrist is able to overcome the saints (the devil will never overcome the church!), after the the 5th trumpet is sounded. To say that the church is on the earth at this point is to say that the church will endure 5 months of torment by the demon "locusts" from the abyss. Does that sound right to you? The promises given to the church in these letters are in fact contemporary and futuristic, however that does not in and of itself mean that there is an overlap between the “things which are” (i.e. the things of the church), and that which happens after (i.e. after the things of the church). Promises given to the true church in the seven letters are pertaining to its earthly existance, until the time of the 70th week, and to its heavenly existance, but not to any time period involving the 70th week. “Jezebel” and her adulterers will be cast into “great tribulation”; this is not the true church. Loadicea will be “spat out”; this is not the true church. Philedelphia will be “kept from” the hour of testing which is coming to “try them that dwell upon the earth”; this is the true church. If you keep the children out of the test period at school, do you: A) Send them into the room, and not let anyone near them with a test? Or B) Not send them into the room? What is the plain, simple, and true meaning of these verses? The solagroup cannot allow a straightforward interpretation of Revelation, and the sequence of events that it gives, because that conflicts with their interpretations. |
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1220 | Amplified Bible; Rev. 4:5 | Rev 4:5 | mark d seyler | 176901 | ||
Hi Brother Paul, You sure seem to have a rather "untethered" manner of Biblical interpretation! You wouldn't happen to have Scriptural basis for some of these many assertions you've made, would you? Love in Christ, Mark |
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