Results 61 - 80 of 801
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: jlhetrick Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211156 | ||
Newwine- You wrote: "Which would have multiplied the amount people that were able to avail themselves of these gifts, and in many cases much younger than the Apostles. Thereby putting the possible end of said gifts into the 2nd. century, and so on with the same teaching from Cor...." Not necessarily. I believe the Scriptural teaching of the gifts of the Spirit are clearly shown to be the work of God through the believer. They would no more be dependent on the life-span of the individual (or the teaching for that matter) than they are on the individual's faith. In other words, I don't find that God would give a gift to an individual and then he/she be in permanent possession and practice of that gift until his/her death. I also have not yet found where He gives and then takes away gifts; it's just that I do see where particular gifts were used in particular events by individuals and then not mentioned again. If I have misunderstood you please redirect me. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
62 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211154 | ||
Steve- thanks for doing the work of researching for some resources (as Doc did also). I have read through Wayne Grudem's "Systematic Theology" but haven't studied it deeply. I was actually surprised by the interview and didn't realize where he stood on the subject. Much of what he said about the charasmatics reminded me of the late Vernon Mcgee. He really shed some light on the modern day thinking of the living Church. Has there been a quenching of the Spirit? |
||||||
63 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211152 | ||
Thanks! | ||||||
64 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211150 | ||
Brother Mark- I apologize that I did not get your point as to exactly what in my post you were responding to. I do get the overall point of the Scripture you referenced. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
65 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211149 | ||
Thanks John- My position was that the "comparison" wasn't a good one since we can see from Scripture that it clearly and unquestionably defines the Trinity; while it doesn't clearly (as far as anyone has pointed to) establish either side of the topic at hand. I wasn't trying to be argumentative nor was I trying to discredit you. I was attempting to explore the thought ligically and arrive at a logical conclusion. Remember, God does not settle anything through prayer regarding doctrine that He doesn't settle in His word. This is a very important foundation that we must stand firmly on. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
66 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211148 | ||
Cheri- thanks for the input. I'm not disagreeing with you in principle, but I'm not sure that faith is necessarily the catlyst for the gifts. That is to say that while I believe any gift should be worked IN faith, faith is not the producer of it. One of the articles Doc pointed to pointted this out. At pentacost those who spoke in tongues were certainly believing God in faith, however, they were not aware of the gift of tongues and/or expecting to be speaking in unknown languages until such time as God caused them to do so. So again, I'm not disagreeing, just pointing that out. I believe there are many Christian's(including participants here) that have as much, and possibly even more, faith as some of those may have had when practicing such gifts. I say possibly more because we are fortunate to have the end result of what many of the early believers were struggling through as a witness to further our faith. I also believe that since it is God who gives the measure of faith in the first place, He is able to produce that in us to the degree necessary to carry out His will, including the working of the gifts in the Church. Thanks for your insight as always sister. Jeff |
||||||
67 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211143 | ||
Brother John- Actually YES... there is a significant amount of Scripture that says that God is a triune God. A huge amount actually, but, so as not to take this already long thread off topic I'll simply point you to the Search box of which you are aware. I don't believe brother Tim is pushing doctrine any more than you are so we do better not to start to sling that type of language at each other, especially long-time respected members. This isn't, or shouldn't be, about convincing one to change his/her belief.... it is actually real bible study. I, for one, have a true struggle with understanding the issue and am benefiting from the dialogue. Until now, I have believed on the word of men and never knew that Scripture does not declare the cessation of the gifts with the end of the apostolic age. I am both shocked and humbled by that fact and very interested in exploring the points with people from both views. I greatly fear false doctrine, but I also fear leaving out what God has intended not to be left out. As believers and brothers in Christ we should do this respectfully, to include opting out individually if we're not benefiting. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
68 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211134 | ||
Tim and all - So far I have only read the article at http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/cessgifts.html and have to agree with you Tim. I stopped taking notes at three pages (but read the entire article) and easily discerned that the article is of no value regarding my search for the truth. I believe by “hilarious” you were referring to the hostile tone, the obviously biased view point and the total lack of academic discipline. A 101 course in philosophical argument would do Mr. Edgar some good. The article just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny so offers no assistance in my search to better understand this topic. I believe part of Mr. Edgar’s inability to present a well considered argument is that he seems to have focused on the Word of Faith teachers as the opposition. We know they are wrong; they add to, take from, misrepresent and otherwise mistreat the Scriptures. I’m in need of insight regarding the biblical truth of Spiritual gifts as they applied then and now (if there is a difference or not and if so, to what degree). I will read the others offered and give honest feedback as well. We should all remember that when we read the writings of uninspired men we should try to do so with an open mind, I think we would all agree with that. We should remember that an open mind includes an understanding of our own biases. Otherwise, if we're reading what goes along with what we already think to be true we may miss something. |
||||||
69 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211132 | ||
Brother Tim, thank you for your thoughts. In the past, I spent several years in a charismatic church (actually 2 different ones). The thing that always bothered both me and my wife was the “speaking in tongues” business. First of all, it didn’t seem real to me (the lady to my left would be nearly perfectly imitating the guy in front of her, for example) and even if it was, it was not practiced biblically. Very often no interpretation and every service involved multiple people doing it at the same time. I have never spoken in tongues and neither has my wife (though I did pray for it sincerely for more than a couple of years because I was wrongly told that it was intended for every believer). We eventually left the first church after the pastor refused to correct publicly, to the congregation, some nonsense that a guest speaker had brought to the pulpit. Briefly, it had to do with a clearly unbiblical practice and although the pastor agreed, he would not address the church regarding it. Turns out that the speaker was on the staff of Kenneth Copeland’s “ministry” and through it all I found Kenneth Copeland was on our church board and an advisor so the pastor. Of course it was time to go. I agree that it does seem that the Church, in large part, has forgotten about the Holy Spirit. I also agree that it is the wrong approach to adopt and hold so tightly to any doctrine that is not biblically supported. I will revisit the biblical references you have pointed to; thanks for your feedback. I think of the patient who never misses a single appointment with me, always showing up on time but always with the same complaints. The one that doesn't take the medication as prescribed and doesn't apply the treatment plan. Jeff |
||||||
70 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211090 | ||
Brother John- thanks for sharing that. Yes, I'm very familiar with your reliance on Scripture as the only sure foundation for truth; hope I didn't come across as questioning that in principal. That was, in part, why I commented on your reference to the rising and setting of the sun. I believe that reference was out of context of the thread. The continuation or cessation of any of the gifts is not an essential issue that should be allowed to devide us. The point of my involvement with the thread is, if nothing else, to point toward the falty approach to doctrine that some have in believing something they can not justify by the Scriptures. Truth is, I have believed in the cessation of the so-called miracle gifts for as long as I can remember knowing of them. I'm a bit embarrassed to say, but it's the truth nonetheless, that I hadn't done the work myself. I'm sure that's true of much of what I believe since I have on more than one occassion had my doctrine adjusted by Scripture, some times very much changed. Once we get into it for ourselves, doing the actual work I mean, it may involve some unlearning. I have people very close to me on both sides of the issue. I have had, in addition to yourself, people proclaim the Spirit having revealed the truth to them while at the same time saying they can't point specifically to Scripture in support. I can't help but be wary of that. So when I see any declare so definately something they either can not or will not support Scripturally, I believe it a fair position to take to request they attempt to. You will agree that some are well equipped to quote others to justify their position while not always so prepaired to quote Scripture to do so. If nothing else, perhaps we are all encouraged to more rightly devide the Word of Truth. God bless and thanks for working with me. Jeff |
||||||
71 | Kill your brother and drink strong drink | James 2:10 | jlhetrick | 211078 | ||
Pete- welcome to the forum! you wrote: "I do not get drunk with wine or strong drink. I am not a thief, covetous, reviler or swindler. I have never been and never will be a drunkard. When I drink my wine or margarita with my dinner I enjoy a buzz that relaxes me and allows me to feel the goodness of God's blessings. It is a wonderful euphoria to behold the majesty of God's creation." Why would you believe that the physiological effects of alcohol is in any way allowing you to "feel the goodness of God's blessing"? From what portion of Scripture do you believe alcohol intoxification results in or in any way involves "a wonderful euphoria to behold the majexty of God's creation"? What we can be sure of, with nothing left to doubt, is the command of Scripture NOT to involve in this experience, as John pointed out- Ephesians 5:18. You're not disputing the clear teachings of Scripture....are you? |
||||||
72 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211075 | ||
John- I believe my argument at this point is that it does not appear to be a use of common sense at all, to have impressed upon our noodles something that isn't supported by Scripture (either side) simply because the argument seems rational. If you mean to suggest that common sense in absence of Scriptural truth is somehow a trumping card I fear you're not only not using your noodle, but maybe drifting even further into error. To make the argument that Scripture says an untruth (as in your referencing the rising and setting of the sun) is as far from attention to context as we might arrive at my friend. There is a rather big word that I can't bring to recall at this moment that deals with this... it involves the use of language, sometimes figuratively, to explain something in a way that makes sense to the hearer. Some writers of Scripture choosing to do this in referring to thte rising and setting of the sun just doesn't fit into this debate. So when I speak of rational arguments, I'm not at all intending to suggest that having something impressed upon our noodle through good sounding arguments should cause us to arrive at a conclusion. I do mean, as I have always held, that we arrive at no final conclusion that Scripture does not. That, my friend, is what we should both be holding on to. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
73 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211073 | ||
Brother Tim- After having read, carefully, the entire thread here I have the following observation. At this point, I can only view your position as being better supported by Scripture than those who believe any of the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. The absence of Scriptural support to prove, or really even suggest, that any gift HAS ceased is either not there or no one has pointed to it. I'm reminded of the very prudent warning to NEVER establish one's doctrine from a single verse or passage, yet, I'm not finding or being pointed to a SINGLE verse that confirms (or again even suggests) that any of the gifts have been ceased as of yet. Still, some, many do believe of the cessation of some gifts though I am not sure why only some (including tongues and healing) have been singled out to have ceased. I'm left with the questionS I had abandoned some time ago. Are the gifts of the Spirit still available to the Chruch today or have they ceased? If they have ceased, where does it say so in Scripture? If Scripture doesn't say so then why would we believe it. If they have not ceased what has caused so many to believe they have? Fortunately for me, I have learned not to allow these things to cause great distress. Like you, I will simply stick with what Scripture says. I'm always willing (even eager) to have Scripture change my position on anything when I'm wrong. On this issue I'm afraid I have to start, literally, from scratch. I've believed one way based on rational arguments for years without having done the work of fully investigating the Scriptures for myself. In this early stage of doing so, I'm not yet finding Scripture to support that any of the gifts have ceased. We should all fear to believe it either way unless we are sure of the truth. If they have in fact ceased, to believe and practice otherwise would be counterfeit. If they have not ceased, to deny them would be to deny Scripture as well as the true work of the Spirit in the Church. God bless, Jeff |
||||||
74 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211071 | ||
Thanks Doc, and forgive my apparent forgetfullness (I didn't forget about the stones) I really didn't expect you would get to this for a day or so. Thanks for the references; I will follow up with them. Jeff |
||||||
75 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211069 | ||
Again, sorry for responding so late. Doc- regarding the cessation of particular spiritual gifrts I'm afraid on this issue I have been mostly guilty of believing what I've been told/taught over the years from within a particular denomination. I have spent time on my own searching the Scriptures in an attempt to justify this but have been unconvinced by Scripture that this position is true. I'm not at all saying that it's not; I've simply believed it this way to this point because those with more time in the church and, apparently, in the Scriptures have said it is so. Will you please point to the Scriptures alone to assist me in understanding where they affirm that even a single gift of the Spirit has ceased or will cease prior to His coming again? Thanks and God bless, Jeff |
||||||
76 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211068 | ||
Will you elaborate please? | ||||||
77 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211012 | ||
aplogies for and clarification of my previous post. After rereading my post I wanted to clarify my point. I was not suggesting that the views of dispensationalist are "very rarely supported by Scripture". My point was that a lot of the time (most of the time in my personal experience) folks who speak of the dispensations are either unable to provide biblical support or fail to do so. Will not be more specific than that in order to avoid a useless debate on debatable stuff that has been debated here plenty :-) |
||||||
78 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 211010 | ||
sorry for the late response- very busy weekend. Yes brother... I understand that and agree. I believe the problem with some Christians understanding this is that the statement (and others that involve the dispensations) is very rarely supported by Scripture. Jeff |
||||||
79 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 210979 | ||
Doc quoted- "He is quick to deploy against them the old dilemma that if their 'private revelations' agree with Scripture, they are needless, and if they disagree, they are false." --J. I. Packer" Now that is how I have always felt about it but had never heard (or read) anyone state it so clearly. Seems to sum it up, but then leaves me with a question regarding the passage beginning at Acts 17:10. When Paul "proclaimed" the word of God in Berea it certainly wasn't "needless" though the passage does suggest that the proclamation wasn't worth much to the Bereans until they validated with Scripture. I believe that when we start to include terms like "private revelation of new truths" in the argument we might get off track since at this point in the thread I don’t see mention of “new truths”. Jeff |
||||||
80 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | jlhetrick | 210967 | ||
Brother Tim- for my further study will you please include scripture reference for points 3 and 4 of the post I am responding too as well as the statement "God will never tell you first before telling them" (regarding a "word of knowledge"). Thanks in advance, Jeff |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ] Next > Last [41] >> |