Results 41 - 57 of 57
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Results from: Notes Author: jamison Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204562 | ||
John, I am inclined to believe it is a thousand as well. Or at least very close to it. Not twice as much or more. However, as I have disputed with others, I am not quick to shoot down an opinion I have not encountered before. I think The Revelation is misunderstood alot. I know I don't understand it, so I will see what RC has to say. Maybe he is on to something. You are welcome to keep throwing in the two cents though. Never hurts to hear both sides. jamison |
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42 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204561 | ||
RC, Thank you for the response. Yeah, I guess it is kinda humorous how I mentioned accurate and approximation. I just mean though that they probably rounded. Like if it said a guy had 1000 sheep and 500 goats, he might actually have 1014 sheep and 492 goats. They just rounded it. I don't think that if he had 1976 sheep that they would have said one thousand. I expect it would have been rounded to 2000. That is what I meant by approximation, that it wasn't just a general number that meant a "whole lot". But not really looking to argue it, it has been used to mean a "whole lot" in some passages, it is just not the norm. But The Revelation is not the norm book either, so though I don't agree as of yet that it is a generalization, I can certainly see it as plausible and would like to continue further if you would. Help me look at Rev 20 up to verse 10 which is supposed to be past if I understand correctly. In verse 3, is Satan no longer deceiving the nations? If not, how is it different now than when he was deceiving them? Also, verse 7 talks about when Satan is loosed, but this hasn't happened yet, or has it? Lastly, who are those that have part in the first resurrection, true followers of Christ or just those that rose when he was crucified or someone else? Thank you in advance for your thoughts on these matters. |
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43 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204522 | ||
RC, I am reposting this in case you missed it earlier. Thank You... RC, Alright, I went back and looked at "thousand" in Scripture. It is used in 395 verses. It is overwhelmingly used as an accurate number or at least an approximation to number men or cattle or shekels, etc. There are a number of instances, though few, where I think it does in fact just mean a long time or a great number. Your quote from Psalms is one and there are a few others, such as 1000 years as one day, be ye mindful always of his covenant the word which he commanded to a thousand generations, etc. So maybe this would work, but I am not quick to accept that. Putting that aside for now, help me look at Rev 20 up to verse 10 which is supposed to be past. In verse 3, is Satan no longer deceiving the nations? If not, how is it different now than when he was deceiving them? Also, verse 7 talks about when Satan is loosed, but this hasn't happened yet, or has it? Lastly, who are those that have part in the first resurrection, true followers of Christ or just those that rose when he was crucified or someone else? Thank you in advance for your thoughts on these matters. jamison |
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44 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204448 | ||
RC, Alright, I went back and looked at "thousand" in Scripture. It is used in 395 verses. It is overwhelmingly used as an accurate number or at least an approximation to number men or cattle or shekels, etc. There are a number of instances, though few, where I think it does in fact just mean a long time or a great number. Your quote from Psalms is one and there are a few others, such as 1000 years as one day, be ye mindful always of his covenant the word which he commanded to a thousand generations, etc. So maybe this would work, but I am not quick to accept that. Putting that aside for now, help me look at Rev 20 up to verse 10 which is supposed to be past. In verse 3, is Satan no longer deceiving the nations? If not, how is it different now than when he was deceiving them? Also, verse 7 talks about when Satan is loosed, but this hasn't happened yet, or has it? Lastly, who are those that have part in the first resurrection, true followers of Christ or just those that rose when he was crucified or someone else? Thank you in advance for your thoughts on these matters. jamison |
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45 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204419 | ||
RC, I thought the Millennial Kingdom was to last 1000 years. Is that not accurate? jamison |
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46 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204395 | ||
OK, I am with you so far. Like I said before, I thought it had to do with the destruction of the temple, but couldn't grasp the coming of the Son of Man. I have not looked any further into what you have proposed, but it seems plausible. Now for The Revelation, do you contend that this has ALL happened already, or that some is still to come? If more is to come, is there a break in the book between past and present. For example, everything before chapter 18 is past and 19-22 are future or whatever. jamison |
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47 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204380 | ||
RC, I am interested in hearing more. I do not have the answer to your question above, but I have always wondered about the Matt 24 and the corresponding Mark and Luke passages. It looked to me like it was talking about the destruction of Israel and the temple as well, but I couldn't make sense of the Son of Man coming. How does the coming of the Son of Man fit in? jamison |
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48 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 204183 | ||
Hello Tamara, First, I don't plan on debating any of the soul sleep stuff. It isn't that important to me. Nor am I am not against shooting down anyone's theology. What is more important to me (and maybe only to me) is first how we Christians tend to trivialize the beliefs of others, even other Christians, and second how we often look for our answers within the realm of those who believe like us anyway. In my opinion, you have trivialized the concept of soul sleep by saying it comes from one verse taken out of context. While soul sleep may not be true, it comes from much more than one verse; and while there is only one CORRECT context, we all tend to read and decide the context based off our current theology. You have, however, mentioned that you have discussed the idea with many SDAers, so you have at least been willing to listen to their points. That is strong. Anyway, it probably wasn't any of my business. I probably read more into than necessary. Should have just kept quite. jamison |
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49 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203844 | ||
Come on Doc, you know this comparison is not accurate. My line of reasoning was about depending on what one man says about another's theology. You have taken it to depending on what Jesus says about another's (Satan's) theology. Unless you think Jesus was just a man, then this comparison is an inaccurate one. So yes, it would make my argument sound silly. Here is my question to you...How do you know that what the Mormons believe is contrary to Scripture? You have to know what they believe to know it contradicts Scripture. So how do you know what they believe? Based on what someone told you they believe? Now a comparison for you then. If you were a Pharisee when Jesus came about, would you listen to what the Pharisees said about Jesus, or would you listen to Jesus Himself? Jamison |
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50 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203839 | ||
Hello WOS, I would agree that this could go on virtually forever. I wasn't even interested in debating it. I only showed verses that those who do believe in soul sleep use to support it because it was requested. Their views come from Scripture, even if they may be misinterpreting them. Your views come from Scripture even though you may be misinterpreting them. That is why their view is worth considering, even though after consideration one may not agree. I appreciate you allowing me the last post, very tactful. However, I don't care to refute anything you have presented. I am not trying to support soul sleep. Thank You, Jamison |
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51 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203837 | ||
What's up Doc (can't be the first time you heard that one, huh), I think maybe you missed my point. Mormons are mere men, of course. However, the only way you know they stand outside of "scriptural, creedal, gospel and ecclesiastical consensus" is to know what they believe. You can either learn what they believe by listening/reading something from them, or you can take what some other guy tells you they believe. Why not hear it from them? Why assume that what someone else says about their beliefs is true when you can actually read/listen to them? What would have happened if everybody in Jesus' time took the Pharisees' word for who Jesus was? Wouldn't it be better for the people to actually hear what Jesus said instead of writing him off as a heretic as the Pharisees told them He was? Jamison |
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52 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203836 | ||
Thank you for your notes Steve. You have given some very solid points. These points along with the points that soul sleep is Scriptural should be noted together by all those searching so they can decide for themselves what they believe, instead of just looking at one side. | ||||||
53 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203833 | ||
Hello Brad, I gave some references in my response to WOS. Take them for what you will. I am not trying to defend soul sleep. The bigger issue is to listen to what others say. For example, I am not a Mormon. However, I have read the book of Mormon. Why? Because if I am to shrug off Mormonism as being false, then I have to determine if what they believe is true. The best way to do this is to read/listen to what they teach. The worst way is to listen to what someone, who already believes what I do, says about them. Otherwise I am putting an awful lot of faith in the people telling me about the Mormons. I don't like to put that much trust in mere men, so why not hear what a Mormon says to see if it is true? PS, your statement about not learning the real thing by studying a counterfeit is accurate. However, you must first assume that what you have is the real thing. If it is not, then every "real" thing would look counterfeit when compared to what you have. Not saying what you have is counterfeit, but that we make an error when we assume that everything we know is truth and everything that opposes it is false. That is why Paul tells us to test things and hold to the truth (1 Thes 5:21) Jamison |
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54 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203832 | ||
Hello WOS, First let me state that I am not trying to persuade you that soul sleep is correct. I don't think it really matters whether you believe in soul sleep or that the spirit lives on after death. I assume you will agree that neither belief will save you or condemn you. The bigger issue is that we not just brush under the rug any doctrine that does not line up with ours as if it is nonsense. However, since you have asked for where this is taught, I will give a few examples. I am aware that some Scriptures seem to teach that the soul lives on after death. Others seem to teach that at death you do not exist at all until the resurrection. Choose whichever you like, but each side has valid arguments. Ecc 12:7 is often given as an argument that the spirit lives on. That could be true. Who am I to disagree? Yet, the word translated as “spirit” is the Hebrew word “ruwach”. This is the same word used to describe the spirit of animals as well. See Ecc 3:18-21, the word “ruwach” is translated as “breath” in this passage. Nonetheless, man and beast have the same “ruwach”, breath, spirit. Again, check Gen 7:15 when the word “ruwach” describes the breath of life of animals. This is restated in Gen 7:22. From a study of this words it appears that the “spirit” of man is the same as the “spirit” of animals (which is what Ecc 3:18-21 says). If this is the case, then if the spirit of man lives on, then one should also believe the sprit of animals lives on. Those who believe in soul sleep would say that the “spirit returning to God” is not referring to man entering the “spirit world”, but to that which God gave us which gives us life (His breath) he has now taken back from us, which is similar to what Psalms 104:29 and Job 34:14-15 say. Job 10:20 – Talks of no return from death Job 14:7-17 – Similar to above, but Job does mention that there will be a resurrection at some point, but he talks as if he does not exist until then. Psalms 6:5 – Talks as if there is no consciousness after death. Ecc 3:18-21 – Already mentioned above Ecc 9:5, 10 – Talk about the dead know nothing, having no reward, etc. Ezek 18:4, 20 – Talks about the soul dying (Hebrew: Nephesh) From reading these passages, some will get the definite feeling that the Jews did not believe in an immediate afterlife (or at least not give it much importance). These are the OT verses. I can put in the NT ones if you like. It isn’t really necessary though. The point isn’t to change your mind about soul sleep, but to get you to consider another’s views. It is better to hear what they have to say than to hear what someone else has to say about them. Jamison |
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55 | Acts 13:1 | Bible general Archive 4 | jamison | 203816 | ||
Hello Tamara, Let me start by saying I am not a SDA. However, the idea of soul sleep has plenty of Biblical basis. Whether it is accurate or not, it is not as simple as saying it comes from one verse that is read out of context. For example, there appears to be no idea of an afterlife in the OT. The Jews did not mention (save once in Daniel) any life continuing after death. Quite the opposite, Solomon especially acted as if at death, it was all over. There are other verses in the NT that support soul sleep as well. However, the point isn't to present a case for it, only to point out that we do others a disservice if we shoot down another theology as if it had no basis in Scripture just because it does not line up with our interpretation of Scripture. Again on the works to get into heaven. Take Matt 25:31-46, the separation between the goats and sheep is not on faith or belief at all. There is no mention of either. There is only a mention of works. Again, not trying to defend the works belief, but it isn't proper to shoot down this theology as having no basis in Scripture. Take whichever side you want, but it is better to learn about what another "sect or cult" believes by hearing their points from them than from someone who disagrees with them. Jamison |
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56 | Help, parents need encouragement! | 2 Tim 3:16 | jamison | 201386 | ||
WOS, You have made the question an either/or. But Justme makes it clear that they are in the Word. It isn't either/or. Can you not do both? Prov 1:5, 11:14, 12:15, 19:20 talk about listening to the advice of others. Isn't the whole forum about us learning from each other? Yes, the Bible can help them with their problem and with every other problem. But might it not be beneficial for them to learn from someone who has went through this before? No one has suggested replacing or forgoing the Bible. Jamison |
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57 | Help, parents need encouragement! | 2 Tim 3:16 | jamison | 201375 | ||
Justme, I am sorry that I do not have anything to offer you. I am not familiar with any book of this type, though I am sure they exist. I tried googling it a few different ways but couldn't find anything that looked good. However, I probably shouldn't say anything, but I feel like I should. I think it is sad that you keep asking and virtually no one wants to help you find this Christian book/author. It is ironic that they even quote from a Christian author when telling you that you don't need a Christian author. Why do we read commentaries if the Bible is good enough? Because we hope that someone else's knowledge and experiences might be able to teach us something that we have missed in the Bible, correct? Then is it not possible or even practical that we should, in addition to our study of the Bible, seek the counsel of others in other matters as well? I wish you well in your search, and I hope those reading this will attempt to help you in your search as well. Jamison |
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