Results 201 - 220 of 678
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Results from: Notes Author: gracefull Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
201 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93612 | ||
Hi DarcyA, Your post is not to me, but I would like to direct you to a couple of threads on the topic of Paul's 'thorn'. Please read thes because the assumption that physical sickness could be 'added' to Paul's list of suffereings is not scripturally accurate. #45428 #80556 I won't go into it here on this thread thoug. It is off the topic. God bless |
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202 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93620 | ||
Hi figgy, Your post is correct. But the underlying message that WOF teaches Christians to manipulate the Word of God like a magicians wand is incorrect. Most of the responses to this teaching address it from the perspective that believers who subscribe to this teaching are all self seeking and expectant of God to give US what WE want in our selfish carnal nature desire. Let me point out that some in immaturity have attempted to USE faith as a means to achieving their own will. Immaturity and ignorance of scripture... WOF teaches ardently that faith worketh by love. Love described in 2 Corinthians 14 defines the God kind of love, and is not self seeking. God provides NOTHING for His children apart from His Word. And if His Word states it is ours under the New Covenant it is false humility and a slap in the face of God to reject what Jesus paid for. And also a hinderance to the work we are called to do if we 'humbly' do not believe for the provision to accomplish that work. It sounds arraogant to a poor understanding of true humility, but true humility wants all that Jesus bought and paid for in this life and the next. Why? Because when we walk in the fullness of all He has given we will walk in all the fullness of our calling, fulfilling our mission. Based on the assumption that someone believes the God is there to fulfill their desires, your post is correct. but based on the fact tha most desire to fulfill God's plan for their life and are believing for all the provision to accomplish that...your post is incorrect. You said.... Christ commands us in John 6:27 "do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life..." Jesus was saying do not expend your thoughts and energy striving for carnal possessions, that He would provide these for us. How does He provide them? Through faith...We receive nothing from God apart from faith. Faith WORKS but not the kind of labor Jesus was speaking of. Faith says, "Thank you Jesus. I will obey You expecting and believing and receiving by faith these provisions You have promised." Be careful to base your beliefs on scripture, not opinions of others or even actions of other Christians. They will ultimately always disappoint us. But God's Word will never FAIL! Read Deuteronomy 28. This is how God desires to treat His children. God bless |
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203 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93638 | ||
Hi DarcyA, For some reason I am not getting my E-Mail alerts to responses on my posts. Thank you for the response. I do not believe this statement had anything to do with sickness or disease. I simply believe he was pointing out that he was so concerned that he had handwritten the lengthy letter himself. God bless |
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204 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93717 | ||
1 Corinthians 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss. 21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. 22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 2 Thessalonians 3:The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. Philemon 1:19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides. It seems Paul did not write all of the epistles or letters himself, possibly dictating to someone but he signed them all to confirm they were his. Also occassionally he would write himself for emphasis. So we know he could write when he chose. And scripture gives no explanation of why he chose NOT to write but when he did he explains why, for emphasis. People make all kinds of assumptions of scripture. Check them out before you take them to heart Mark 4:23-25 23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. 24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. 25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. God bless |
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205 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93770 | ||
Hello Figgy, We will have to talk tomorrow on this to get indepth. To begin with let me point out that Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. What does this verse say? Without faith we can receive nothing from God. To establish this principle first is critical to understanding WOF teaching. The second is 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: The reason I want to start here is because I am reasonably sure this would start us off, at least, in agreement. The short answer is faith is always necessary for healing. I do not, and neither does WOF teach that OUR faith exclusively is the way to healing. WOF is full gospel and believes in the operation of the gifts..gift of healings, etc. WOF AND I believe another's faith can produce healing. The flip side of the same coin, God expects His children to study the Word and allow our faith to be developed by the Holy Spirit and the Word. I realize the posts leaned in that direction because of the question asked concerning some taking offense at being told their faith should be developed. WOF is STRONG on personal relationship and maturing in God. Odviously WOF believes in laying on of hands for healing. They do so consistently. But at the same time they teach and encourage personal faith development. This aspect of WOF is to be admired. They are extremely discipling oriented. As far as a teacher or preacher telling someone they need to develop their faith..this could be a front for a lack of annointing, but it also could be a word from the Lord. We should not become offended at being told to do something God expects us to do. They very well could be hearing from the Holy Spirit. But if we take offense...this is never the response a Christian should have. If the minister is incorrect, God would have us pray for them, but first we need to allow the Holy Spirit to examine our own heart. God bless Purhaps we can talk more tomorrow, |
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206 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93863 | ||
Hi Ed, You asked.. "Do we not receive life from God before we have faith? Do we not receive breath from God before we have faith. Was not the ten lepers healed without faith?" No. We receive nothing from God without faith. Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. The Word is unprofitable when not mixed with faith. Luke 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. Lepers were not allowed to go into the city, much less the temple. Jesus said...Go show yourselves to the priests. Ed, would it not take faith to do that? You said... Explain now Lazarus was exercising his faith before Jesus called him forth from the grave. Scripture does not state that faith was present, but it had to be because Hebrews 4:2 says the Word must be mixed with faith. Also Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Just one more, because this debate could go on forever... Moses and the buring bush...God chose to reveal Himself and speak His Word to Moses through the buring bush but Moses RECEIVED the promise when he obeyed by faith. He took up the rod and went in obedience. Because he went in faith, God was able to manifest Himself to Pharoah and Israel. Had Moses not believed God's Word... You said... "Just as I have demonstrated this principle is untrue and since this is foundational to WOF teaching we can also know WOF teaching is in error." You gave examples where the statement of the presence of faith is not stated. You have not disproved that we receive nothing from God except by faith in His Word. Name one thing we receive from God that is NOT by faith? Salvation? Our provision of food, clothing, dwelling? Jesus said seek first the Kingdom of God...and all these things will be added. Do you not have to BELIEVE that to obey and receive? To step out and be annointed for ministry do we not have to do so by faith before God begins to bless the ministry? We are enven instructed to 'seek the best gifts...'How would we do that? Ask in faith doubting not.. Nothing is received from God apart from faith in His Word..Whether it is my faith, your faith or some intercessor somwhere praying in the Spirit for you and you don't even know it. God bless |
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207 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93892 | ||
Hello Figgy, Part 1 of 2 You wrote... I wish I had the time to truly delve into this. However, with a one and a half year old trying to "help" mommy everytime I sit down at the computer, please forgive me for not being able to address each point that you make. Any omission on my part is not intended to ignore what you have taken precious time and thought to write. PLEASE no apology necessary. A lot is written here and there are many times there is just not the time to realy dig into these topics. Any and all comments and observations from all of us is an opportunity learn and grow. You said.. God is sovereign and can and will DO ANYTHING that he pleases regardless of our actions. We cannot control Him (however Biblical our desires may be) through any type of "personal faith development" (ie formulas). While I agree totally that God is sovereign, I disagree that He can do what He wants regardless of scripture. The reason I say this is two small verses that settle this matter for me.. Numbers 23:18-20 18 And he took up his parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? 20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. Luke 8:10-12 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Isaiah 55:10-11 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Figgy, as believers we have only two by which to place our faith, the Word and the Holy Spirit. These two are our connection to the Father. Now notice I did NOT say that Jesus is not our Saviour and Lord through which we are saved. But upon being born again we only have the Word and the Holy Spirit to guide us through life and show us the will of the Father. Without the Word, we would not have assurance that the spirit we are listening to is the Holy Spirit. So in light of this, the Word must be the final judgement in what we believe. God's Word is His New Covenant or will to His children. With this in mind, can God change His will randomly? Because God is sovereign He is the only one who could enter covenant with mankind because He is the only one with the authority to carry it out, and He chose to enter covenant with mankind. God conditioned in His covenant with Abraham that He can't break covenant and remain God. You, and others on the forum believe God can choose to do something that contradicts His covenant because He is sovereign. I believe He has committed Himself To His covenant and cannot change by His own choice. If that is heresy...I remain a heretic, because MY GOD IS FAITHFUL. That is the foundation of my faith. Otherwise, your faith in your salvation promised through Jesus is only as good as God chooses. My faith in my salvation through Jesus is secure because He said so IN HIS WORD. God bless |
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208 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93893 | ||
Part 2 You said... He is all knowing and all wise and my faith is placed in HIS wisdom. The Bible says "My God shall supply all my needs according to His riches and glory by Christ Jesus" (Phil 4:19) This is an interesting statement. You said this with confidence. Is that confidence faith in this promise? But if your first statement is true and God can change His mind regardless of what He has said, how can you be so sure He will fulfill this promise? I believe He is fulfilling this promise in my life BECAUSE HE SAID SO. Do you see the difference? You said... As an aside, you mentioned something about the laying on of hands to heal. My impression of your statment is that it is a requirement for healing. If you believe this - how is that scriptural? Is God limited to what He can do by our actions? No, that was not the message. You may have to read the post I was responding to. The previous post asked if I believed personal faith was the only way God healed. I was saying that our personal faith is not the only avenue God heals through. He can and often does heal through the faith of others, either by the simple act of faith of laying on of hands and prayer, or by the 'gift of healings'. You said... "I simply challenge you to truly examine WOF beliefs in light of the inerrant Word." I believe totally that the Word of God is inerrant...Jesus was the Word made flesh... but what does that mean to you? If it is inerrant, does that mean it is unchangable? Sealed with the blood and the Holy Spirit forever? That's what it means to me... From the heart, God bless |
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209 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93907 | ||
Ed's point exagerated what I said. I said we receive nothing from God apart from faith. In the covenant WE HAVE ENTERED with God...we receive every portion of that covenant by faith...from salvation, food, healing, wisdom, the Holy Spirit, nothing. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say anything that could remotely be interpreted as saying God created all things by through the faith of mankind. But afterward, He initiated the covenant WITH mankind and we enter and abide in that covenant BY FAITH. Emmaus, reread my post and you tell me if I made such an implication? I know very well what Ed was saying, and I tried to get him back on track of what I said because the direction he was going in was not at all what I was saying. The truth is that Ed does not try to hear what I am saying, but rather what I say is filtered through his concept of WOF doctrine. He tries to 'read between the lines' some hidden meaning when there is none. I rather believe he missed my point. But after you re read it all, let me know if the message is not clear. I will certainly clarify further if need be. God bless you brother Emmaus |
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210 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93917 | ||
Hi Ed, You said... If your alive you received that life and your breath long before you had any faith. In context of my post I believe I was clear that the message that BELIEVERS or children of the covenant receive nothing from God/The Word/ the covenant apart from faith. If I was unclear on that I apologize. You said... "It would not require faith if they were cleansed, they would not be lepers. We also don't know if they went in or not, we do know only one returned in "faith" to say thank you" They were healed AS they went. They headed to the temple before they were healed. That is faith. You said... Life itself both physical and spiritual God gave it to us before we had any faith. God knew me before I was conceived in my mother's womb. That faith was present here is debatable. But Roman's 10 indicated that faith was necessary for spiritual rebirth. Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. You said... God gave us health, He gave us prosperity (the poorest among us is richer that the richest in many countries), in many cases God gave us praying grandparents, parents, aunt and uncles, brothers and sisters that prayed for our salvation. God has given us a great nation, freedom, liberty and the right to preach His gospel. God has given us the sun to norish our planet, the moon to light our evenings, the stars to make us look skyward and wonder. God gave me two wonderful daughters when I was still without faith, from those daughters came 6 beautiful grandchildren. All that I have God has given me and much of it I recieved before I knew Him. Whether faith was active in all the blessings we received before we knew Him for ourselves or not, is debatable. I tend to believe based on the scriptures cited in my previous post that faith was at work even if it was not your own. Again, I did not say it had to be OUR faith. But I am speaking of, and thought I was clear in my post but maybe not, we receive nothing from the covenant apart from faith. Be that salvation, the Holy Spirit, healing, His provision as we serve, His gifts. Let's go at this from a different angle... Tell me what part of God's covenant I CAN receive without faith. God bless |
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211 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 93921 | ||
Hi Figgy, That is the message I have been given at times here on the forum. But as a last footnote, I believe God places His desires in our heart if we are sincere. Those who are not sincere seek their own desires. But WOF encourages surrender and prayer and meditation in the Word to place ourselves in the position of having God's desire in our heart. Other's, however, can't judge our heart. Only God. God bless |
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212 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94152 | ||
Hi Ed, I will try to respond to your other post on this topic indepth. However, you are correct. I did not state 'in covenant'. This was a serious communication error on my part. I made an assumption that we were all on the same page as covenant children discussing the New Covenant. For that I sincerely apologize to all forum members. The foundation of WOF teaching on faith is Covenant based. God is a covenant God. He began entering covenants with mankind when He created Adam. So as for His creation of the heavens and the earth and all that is within them for us, these were created before His first covenant with mankind. Nature was set in it's course before us. We can surely make choices in our lives apart from God that are 'good' in our thinking anyway. Even athiest fall in love, get married, have children and grandchildren....And in this life they are 'good'. "Now you say I was exagerated or misrepresented what you said, that you were really talking about covenant promises. That I also read between the lines and find things that aren't there, hidden meanings." Again, I sincerely apologize...I will try harder to be a better communicator. God bless |
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213 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94164 | ||
Hi Ed, Thank you for your concern. Yes I agree that we must be faithful stewards. I am self employed, and reserve the weekend for my husband, grandchildren and church. God bless |
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214 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94174 | ||
Good post LDS, This is the point I have repeatedly tried to make here on the forum. Ed has said several times that what I say is not WOF teaching necessarily, but that is where I first learned these things such as the authority of the believer and the integrity of God's Word. I was in a mainstream organization but began to listen to the teaching and compare scripture and found that they taught the things you listed above and THEN I began to grow and gain victory over areas of my life that up to that point I had been told to just keep praying about it! I could have prayed 'till the cows come home...and still been bound because Jesus HAD ALREADY SET ME FREE! The problem I see is that some are so anti WOF that they will not accept that there is some really GOOD scriptureal teaching. A better approach would be to work WITH the teaching and sort out the good and the erronious rather than merely condemn everything. I was blessed by your post. God bless |
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215 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94175 | ||
Darci, Where did you hear this? WOF teaches the only criteria for salvation is repentance and confession of the Lord Jesus Christ as saviour. Kenneth Copeland statement of Faith(copied from their web site) We believe in one God-Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man. We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct. We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost. We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life. We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption. We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers. We believe in the Christian's hope-the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ. God bless |
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216 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94176 | ||
Darcy! Where are you getting this stuff? You are very confused about what is taught by WOF. Take any one of the above accusations and send it to me and we can discuss it. But KC has never taught that it was literally Satan on the cross. He has taught based on Numbers 21 the bronze serpent is symbolic of the curse of the law of sin and death...which Jesus redeemed us from through His being nailed to the cross...bottom line of a very extensive teaching is that the curse of the law of sin and death was nailed to the cross. Galatians 3:Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: What curse? The one pronounced upon all mankind whe Adam and Eve succumbed to the serpents lie in the Garden of Eden. Jesus took the curse upon Himself upon the tree and the bronze serpent in Numbers 21 was prophetically pointing forward to that fact. Had Jesus not taken the curse upon the cross, all mankind would stil be without hope. God bless |
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217 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94181 | ||
Darci, You seem to be overemphasizing only one aspect of WOF teaching. Whether Jesus was in Gehanna ir the Abyss for three days, He swas still in Hell.. He descended. He was also seperated from the FAther. He cried out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" He was not merely quoting scripture when He said this. God had turned away because Jesus had taken the curse from mankind unto Himself..otherwise we would still all be lost.. Whys is this so difficult for us as believers to comprehend? He TOOK OUR SIN PENALTY UPON HIMSELF. Now after reading this consider John 3:16. God bless |
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218 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94185 | ||
Hi, That is certainly not what her statement of faith states. Nor have I ever heard her even remotely illude to the need to believe the 'hell doctrine'. She states in her statemnt of faith one must have Godly sorrow which leads to repentance which produces the new birth. If someone told you that, it is not her doctrine. One must believe He died on the cross for our sins, and the Aposltes Creed states Jesus 'descended' and as I understand various organizations decide whether that 'descended' was to Sheol or Gehanna, but either way...He descended. God bless |
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219 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94186 | ||
A lesson I learned a long time ago. If even a pencil is pocked that is not yours, Satan has an occasion to ACCUSE. God bless |
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220 | A FALSE TEACHING? Yes / No | Matt 8:5 | gracefull | 94187 | ||
Hi Ed, "Surely you didn't expect Copeland or anyone else to put something in their "what we beleive" that would tip the average person to the fact they don't keep orthodox Christian theology." From my studies, I know what they believe. My question was to Darci an where she heard that one must believe the 'hell doctrine to be saved'? God bless |
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