Results 361 - 380 of 581
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: New Creature Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
361 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89029 | ||
Dear Jibby the very same apostle Paul who said; 2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. also said: 1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway The same Saviour who said, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish" (Jn. 10:28) also said, "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Lk. 13:23-24) The same apostle Peter who said, "In his great mercy he has given us new birth . . . into an inheritance that can never perish" (1 Pet. 1:3-4) also said "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Pet. 1:10) If "once saved, always saved was Bibical then why does God's word tell us in the following verse; John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno meaning remain) not in me, he is cast forth (some versions word it cut off) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. New Creature |
||||||
362 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 89028 | ||
Doug Doug I find you intrepretation of John 15 to be faulty simply because John 15:6 specifically states: JohN 15:6 If a MAN abide not in me, HE (not it, or they as you suggest) is cast forth as a branch The plain reading of this verse is clear. Don't try to complicate it. New Creature |
||||||
363 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88998 | ||
I don't disagree with you here. However you have not addressed the topic of whether or not salvation can be forfeited or not. It seems like the topic of "once saved, always saved" is either being ignored, diverted, or left unaddressed, and unanswered. Neither did you comment on John 15:6 which I believe teaches that "once saved, always saved" is an unBibical teaching. Concerning the works topic Paul and James agree. See James 2:20, and Eph. 2:10 Also in Titus Paul had this to say concerning works. "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." Titus 3:8 I will await your comments on the following verses. John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. The word "abide" comes from the Greek word meno which means to remain. In the case here it means to remain connected to Christ the vine I remain convinced. "Once saved, always saved" teachings as are presented by many today are unBibical. New Creature |
||||||
364 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88991 | ||
Concerning your accusation of eisegesis on mine and others part especially concerning John 10:29. If you look at the text in the KJV the word "man" is in italics, meaning it wasn't in the original manuscripts but was added. I also disagree with your interpretation of the verses found in John 15. If you look carefully in John 15:1-6 you will notice that there are two types of branches. Both are in Him (Christ) the one bears fruit, and is pruged or pruned so that it may bear even more fruit. The second type is the branch that bears no fruit. This second type is taken away or cut off as some versions word it. and then they are thrown away, become withered and then finally gathered and thrown into the fire and burned. Nothing can wither that has not at one time previously been alive. I suggest you do a more detailed study in John 15 paying careful attention to what is actually being said in this text. Most people I have talked with have not a orthodox understanding of this Scripture, because they usually hurry through it. Slow down and see what it truly says. Until proven by Scripture, I remain convinced that; "once saved, always saved" as is being taught by many is UnBibical. Thanks anyway Love in Christ New Creature |
||||||
365 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88962 | ||
I agree "God is the perfector of our faith" look at the previous verse to see what the believers responsibility is Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, "let us run with patience the race that is set before us" Paul compared the Christian life to a race. And I need not tell you that a race has both a starting line as well as a finish line. And not all who begin a race cross the finish line. Thanks anyway New Creature |
||||||
366 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88961 | ||
Hank Again "eternal" describes the nature of the life which those who ENDURE till the end shall receive, once they have persevered. You also say you and others have offered solid Bibical proof that "once saved, always saved" is absolutely a true doctrine of the Bible. I am sorry to once again tell you, that I would be willing to accept it as true if I saw the truthfulness of that teaching. As of yet, I remain unconvinced that what you and others have said about this gives me or anyone else solid evidence. I believe God's word, I just as yet don't accept the interpretation of the Scriptures you as well as others have offered to date as being accurate. Thanks for trying New Creature |
||||||
367 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88938 | ||
Hank You say I must be advocating salvation by works. Scripture plainly says "faith without works is dead" James 2:17,20 Where faith is present, works must also be present. Secondly the fact the new life is called "eternal" does not guarantee that it can or cannot be forfeited. "The fact life is "eternal" does not prove we cannot lose it. "Eternal" describes the nature of the life. It has nothing to do with whether it can or cannot be lost. "One of the most commonly presented arguments given in defense of the teaching of "once saved always saved" goes like this: When one gets saved, he receives eternal life. If that life could be lost, it wouldn't be eternal! Therefore, once a person is saved, he is always saved. Eternal life was eternal even before a saved person ever possessed it. Does it not follow then, that eternal life will still remain eternal, even if one doesn't continue to possess it?" "hath everlasting life" John 5:24 is in the present tense. I don't see this as speaking in the future tense Concerning John 10:27-30 see my replys to others concerning that text. Same with Rom. 8:31-39. Concerning Eph. 4:30 Why the admonition to "grieve not the Holy Spirit" if their is no danger? I can probably guess the answer to that. I have heard it all before. "We are never in danger of losing salvation, but you can lose rewards" I don't see support for that line of thinking either. Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them. Yes He truly is able. Ability does not mean absolutely will. Once saved does God turn you into a robot? I have heard the answer to that to. You will probably say. "No, but God creates the desire to not go astray" That however doesn't answer the question about those who have departed from the faith. I know people that once had a zeal for the Lord and loved God's people, and by any evidence given were at one time truly saved. Some became Bible teachers and were in positions of leadership. They no longer have any desire or hunger to serve God. I have a neighbor who God at one time used to lead others to Christ. He also no longer attends church, and He refuses to even talk about spiritual matters any longer. Many people like this fall through the cracks, without notice to many. Then people excuse them by saying, "they were never really saved to begin with" Hogwash! That in my opinion is an excuse church people use to protect their revered "once saved, always saved" teaching. Without ever really getting to the truth of the matter. So Scripture plus experience tell me that "once saved, always saved" is simply UnBibical. I remain unconvinced by the arguments I have seen so far. There are plently of other born-again Christians who also disagree with the "once saved, always saved" teaching of the day as is presented by many. Someone once said: "In every generation the majority of people are probably wrong" If "once saved, always saved" is true, why does God's word say John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno meaning remain) not in me, he is cast forth (cut off in some versions) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Give me solid Bibical proof. Still waiting New Creature |
||||||
368 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88933 | ||
I agree, God is the author of our salvation. He authored and initiated salvation not us. But what has that got to do with the topic of whether or not salvation can be forfeited or not? Is there not any more solid support from the Bible than what you have provided so far? Give me something solid. You will have to do better than that if you hope to convince me that "once saved, always saved" is Bibical I remain unconvinced because of any real lack of Scriptural support as yet. Love in Christ New Creature |
||||||
369 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88932 | ||
Joe I am doing the best I can to respond to all comments, and have read every word in very response. And I still see "once saved, always saved" as an UnBibical teaching that cannot be supported. As I told John, and as I will tell you as well. I believe we are brothers in Christ, even if we do not see eye to eye on this topic. Convince me from Scripture that "once saved, always saved" is absolutely Bibical and then I will believe it. As yet no one has given me ample proof or argument to prove the Bibicalness of such a teaching But don't give up on me. Convince me from Scripture New Creature |
||||||
370 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88925 | ||
I have read all the Scripture verses you gave me, which you believe absolutely support without a doubt your belief that "once saved, always saved" is an essential truth of Scripture. And I must tell you I am not ignorant when it comes to Scripture. If you want to continue to believe in that teaching I don't deny you that right and priveledge, no matter how unfounded I believe it is. As I have told others and I will tell you as well, the following verse, in my opinion, single-handedly shoots your revered "once saved, always saved" teaching completely out of the water. John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno, meaning remain) not in me, he is cast forth (some versions use cut off) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Love in Christ Jesus New Creature |
||||||
371 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88923 | ||
Let me address some of the verses you use which supposedly are as you say either misinterpreted, or used to support the unBibical "once saved, always saved" teaching. You and others have said that Heb. 6:4-6 is only a hypothetical circumstance. I disagree. There is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word “if” in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – “and they have fallen away” (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction “kai” usually means “and” has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying “they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away” (A.T. Robertson) The NEB translates the phrase, “and after all this” There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that “this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible.” Their reasoning comes from Paul’s statement “But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you.” They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for “you” not “them” C. H. Spurgeon believed those described in Hebrews 6:4-6 were obviously saved but the situation posed was hypothetical. Spurgeon built his whole case on the little word if—"if they shall fall away" (Hebrews 6:6). Spurgeon claimed it had never happened yet. Unfortunately, Spurgeon didn’t know Greek and he was unaware that there is no if in the Greek at all. As a matter of fact those described in Hebrews 6:4-6 had already fallen away. Parapesontas is an aorist participle, which is to be translated either as those who "fell away" or those "having fallen away." Their fall was a fact. Concerning Rom 8 which many like to use to support their belief in "once saved, always saved" let me just add this. "Certainly, one of the most commonly misunderstood passages in the Bible is Rom. 8:38,39, as commonly presented by the eternal security teachers of our day. These two often-mentioned verses say: "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." In quoting this passage, the eternal security adherents argue that it proves that once we are saved we are always saved; and even though "sin" isn't mentioned in Paul's list, it is understood to be included, hence no sin committed after initial salvation will condemn a person! there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! It must be further noted that this same unsaved man, like all unsaved people, are separated from the LIFE of God," (Eph. 4:18) but, again, not separated from His LOVE! Since one only has salvation when he has the LIFE of God, Rom. 8:38,39 does NOT assure an unconditional salvation on the basis of God's infinite love!" (source unknown) Concerning the over-use phrase "let really saved in the first place" which you and many others often echo. I will merely add this. Paul wrote about some who "made ship-wreck of their faith" (1 Tim. 1:19,20) unlike many in our day Paul did not say of these who shipwrecked their faith, they were never really saved to begin with. If I could give you just one verse that should allow you to understand that "once saved, always saved" is unBibical it would be the following verse, although there are many more as well. John 15:6 If a man abide (Greek meno maeaning remain)not in me, he is cast forth (some versions say cut off) as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. In His service New Creature |
||||||
372 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88920 | ||
John Let me be brief and simply say, God keeps all His promises, none of them ever fail However man makes promises, and man brakes his promises. A man may vow to remain faithful, and then fail to keep his oath or promise. Just because a man fails to remain (Greek meno) abide in Him, in no way means that God ever fails. It simply means man has failed to remain connected to the vine. See John 15:6 New Creature |
||||||
373 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88869 | ||
Nosnarc Yes; heard that used in support of the revered teaching thousands of times. The same Saviour who said, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish" (Jn. 10:28) also said, "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Lk. 13:23-24) The same apostle Peter who said, "In his great mercy he has given us new birth . . . into an inheritance that can never perish" (1 Pet. 1:3-4) also said "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure" (2 Pet. 1:10) Paul said nothing "will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 8:39) also said, "I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize" (1 Cor. 9:27) "But didn't Jesus say that no man can pluck us out of His hand? Yes He did. And in the preceding verse Jesus indentified those who are held securely in His hand. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW me;The ones who cannot be plucked out of Christ's hand are the sheep who hear His voice and follow Him. They are obedient to His teaching. if ye turn away, and forsake my ... commandments, ... Then will I pluck them up ... and ... cast (them) out of my sight (2 Chr. 7:19-20) The protection is from enemies without who seek to carry off the sheep, but not from unfaithfulness of the sheep who might choose not to follow any longer. This safety is only from forces outside the believer and God Himself. A backslider removes himself from the promises of safety and security. He is not removed against his own will. “John 10:28 is a great promise that no man can pluck believers out of their Father's hand. That is what it teaches. It does not teach that you cannot, as a believer, walk out of His hands. It simply teaches that man cannot take you out of God's hands, but it does not talk about your own ability to choose to leave His hands” (Source unknown) Still waiting for someone to give solid Sciptural support that would prove that "once saved, always saved" is Bibical. New Creature |
||||||
374 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88867 | ||
Jesusman Even if an adopted child cannot ever be un-adopted, it is still possible for that adopted child to become sick and die. There is physical death as well as spiritual death. I stand firm. "once saved always saved" is not a Bibical teaching. I am still awaiting to be convinced from Scripture. As of yet no one has been able to prove this teaching to be Bibical, therefore it must come from men and denominations New Creature |
||||||
375 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88838 | ||
Dear John Convince me through Scripture that "once saved always saved" as is being presented by many today is accurate and Bibical. As of yet I find no Scriptural support for it. So far you and others have provided much Scripture on this subject, without convincing me, or swaying my thinking on this topic. I am convinced by Scripture as I prayerfully read and study and chew over it. I have no intention of swaying your opinions on the matter. Let Scripture also be the only book that helps you form your opinion. I will continue to post my opinions on this topic, and no doubt you will continue to add your rebutals to my comments Thats what the forum is all about Keep up the diligent work May the Lord also Bless you New Creature |
||||||
376 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88827 | ||
Radioman Excellent Scripture However most of the verses you used to support your thoughts, deal with God's will. The other side of the coin which many fail to recognize or refuse to accept is; God gives us a will also. While God's will is irrevocable, our will can and does change. For instance: God will never leave or forsake us ever. That truly is God's will. Humans can say they will never forsake or forget you, but they often do. Thats the difference between God's perfect will, and our imperfect God given will. Even the verse you posted from John 5:24 AMP " the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life." Notice in that verse our responsibility to cling to and rely on Him. It appears to me that many view faith as something that is passive. Nothing could be further from the truth. Faith in the life of the believer should be pro-active. Why else are we admonished to put our faith into action, or taught about how to practically apply what we are taught from God's word to our everyday life and walk? Salvation is in the present tense in John 5:24 which you quoted from the AMP Bible. I also notice that many who quote Bibical phrases such as "nothing shall separate us from the love of God, fail to understand that while it is true that nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God, sin can and does separate us from the LIFE of God which is in Christ Jesus. (Isaiah 59:2 says "sin separates us from God") But we know God loves sinners and sent His only Son to die for the sins, sinners commit. Paul said; Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners (1 Tim. 1:15) So even though sinners are separte from the LIFE of God, they are at no time separte from the LOVE of God. You have to take that into consideration when mediating upon Scripture. I still believe many have an ingrained pre-conceived bias on this topic which they no doubt learned from the teachings of certain denominations. Thats my opinion, but hopefully by God's grace He will permit me to remain teachable to what His Holy Spirit (not men) wants to teach me in my quiet time spent alone with God in prayer and in His word. In His service New Creature |
||||||
377 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88803 | ||
Greetings John I wish I had more time on my hands to write in detail all I have learned about this touchy topic. I have studied my Bible in detail, and must conclude that what I have previously stated concerning this topic is accurate. I don't mean to sound like a know it all, if thats how I come off I apologize to you. And what I am about to say next may anger you and others and even seem arogant, but from my experience, and prayerful study of God's word, the only way one can hold to the unBibical teaching of "once saved, always saved" as is being presented today by many, would be to have a pre-conceived bias towards a certain denominations teaching and revered theology. I wish I had more time, but I have so many other responsibilities to attend to in service to the Lord. Maybe in the near future, if I find more free time on my hands I can write a lengthy composition to you describing in detail the verses you inquire about, as well as other verses and portions of Scripture when taken in proper context, and not seen through the microscope of denominations can be brought to an orthodox light, to any person with an un-biased approach, which is how I am sure you do, and will approach this topic. Be patient for more from me on this in other articles. I am sure that we are both brothers in the Lord Jesus Christ, even if we do disagree here. In His service New Creature |
||||||
378 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88390 | ||
John As you well know there are two sides in this debate that has been on-going for hundreds of years. You have formed your opinions through Scripture, and I also have formed mine through prayerfully studying God's word to us. We could debate this endlessly but here is what the Bible in it's entirety says to me concerning the matter of "forsaking" The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you. 2 Chr. 15:2 because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you. (2 Chr. 24:20) I will even forsake you saith the Lord. (Jer. 23:33) Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you ... and cast you out of my presence. (Jer. 23:39) If you forsake him he will cast you off. (1 Chr. 28:9 Hosea 9:17) "Heb 13:5 he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. This verse does not prove anything close to what people are trying to force their meaning to be. The truth is that Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, but we can leave or forsake Him. All these Scriptures are centered around God's actions and not the actions of the believer. God will never just decide to forsake any believer, ever! Yet, the believer may decide to forsake Him. Once a believer has forsaken God He then will give them up to themselves and forsake them. This does not contradict that He will never leave or forsake a believer, rather it affirms that God is not the one who does the forsaking. If we fall from the faith, it doesn’t reflect negatively upon God’s faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness" (from an unknown source) New Creature |
||||||
379 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | New Creature | 88369 | ||
Tim The fact that God will never leave or forsake us, in no way indicates that it is God that ever does the forsaking. It is not God that forsakes us, we, however can leave or forsake Him. It is called departing from the faith. (see 1 Tim 4:1) The fact that nothing can separate you from the LOVE of God in no way means that nothing cannot separate you from the LIFE that is in Christ. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the LOVE OF GOD that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." In quoting this passage, the eternal security adherents argue that it proves that once we are saved we are always saved; and even though "sin" isn't mentioned in Paul's list, it is understood to be included, hence no sin committed after initial salvation will condemn a person! there is a definite DIFFERENCE between the "LOVE" of God as mentioned in Rom. 8:38,39 and the "LIFE" of God, according to Scripture! This is easily proven by noting that UNSAVED people are LOVED by God, even though they are devoid of His LIFE! A clear case in point is the rich, young ruler who was certainly UNSAVED, yet LOVED by Jesus (Mk.10:21)! It must be further noted that this same unsaved man, like all unsaved people, are separated from the LIFE of God," (Eph. 4:18) but, again, not separated from His LOVE! Since one only has salvation when he has the LIFE of God, Rom. 8:38,39 does NOT assure an unconditional salvation on the basis of God's infinite love!" (quoted from an unknown source) New Creature |
||||||
380 | hinderances to correct understanding | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 86697 | ||
Tim; Your comments lead me to another question. Especially the following comment of yours - "the average Christian doesn't really know what their church teaches anyway!" My question is - If the so-called "average Christian" doesn't understand correct doctrine or teaching, is it possible for them to properly live up to the teachings of Christ Jesus? New Creature |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ] Next > Last [30] >> |