Results 21 - 40 of 44
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Results from: Notes Author: FreeThinker Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Studying O.T. is creating problems. | Genesis | FreeThinker | 84782 | ||
Hank, You cannot prove the the existance of one thing by showing that something else is, to you, difficult to explain. I can see radio wave on a scope! I can build a transmitter and send radio waves to the reciever. Try to restrict your answers, to me anyways, to logic. Because you or I cannot explain something does not make it devine! Thank you, |
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22 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84781 | ||
"The question is, however, what does the evidence of nature (both physical nature and human nature) show to someone who hasn't already pre-supposed that no gods exist?" Not at all. I simply would say I don't know how life started, and I would research the answers. I would not assume that a god made everything without any more proof than my ignorance and a book. | ||||||
23 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84780 | ||
I am sorry... "They don't" What? Get to heaven execpt through Jesus? | ||||||
24 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84756 | ||
“Emmaus made a very interesting comment: "How do you know Jesus does not make Himself known to them at the moment of their death and let them make a decision? It is still through Jesus."” To say that this happens just because I cannot prove it otherwise does not make it so. ”The revelation of Jesus (the Gospel) in the Old Testament was vailed. But by faith Jesus did make Himself known. Job spoke of his Redeemer:” When I buy something, almost anything nowadays, it comes with instruction in many languages. I throw away the French, German and Spanish ones because they are ‘veiled’ to me and I cannot understand them. On a similar note, the writings attributed to Nostradamus are constantly being reevaluated and reworked to fit our times as well. It was not through proof that God made himself known, but through faithful reponse to His word. How could it be any other way? Didn't Adam and Eve have all the proof they needed, and also Lucifer? Criminals "know" that police exist, but the state of sin they have does not stop their criminal behavior. What is better, reponse to "proof" or reponse to "faith"? “If Jesus is alive and a god, and Apollo is an idol and dead, what is the evidence, since the one is as invisible, as inaccessible, and as unproducible as the other? And, if faith that Jesus is a god proves him a god, why will not faith in Apollo make him a god? But if worshipping Jesus, whom for the best part of the last two thousand years no man has seen, heard or touched; if building temples to him, burning incense upon his altars, bowing at his shrine and calling him "God," is not idolatry, neither is it idolatry to kindle fire upon the luminous altars of the Greek Apollo, --God of the dawn, master of the enchanted lyre--he with the bow and arrow tipped with fire! I am not denying," I said, "that Jesus ever lived. He may have been alive two thousand years ago, but if he has not been heard from since, if the same thing that happened to the people living at the time he lived has happened to him, namely—if he is dead, then you are worshipping the dead, which fact stamps your religion as idolatrous."” Author: M M Mangasarian God created the angels and gave them freewill and power, so from this point, where did evil come? Did Lucifer create the evil? Did God create it so that Lucifer and the others could have freewill? ”You remind me of Ateo. If you are he then I am still looking into your questions and plan to get back to you. Also, keep going to church. Try to find a knowledgable friend that will not mind answering your questions in person.” I am not Ateo, but if he questions are in line with mine, maybe you could let me in on that conversation. I said "You can't even prove, in the sense you are talking about, that your own great great great grand mother existed, except by the fact of your own existence." You said: "Again you are going off track. My great great great grand mother is not said to have the power to come and go as she pleases. We know and understand how procreation works and since I was born before test tube babys, it is easy to deduce that she existed." You either completely missed my pointed or did not comprehend it. And when you quoyed me you left out the very sentence which made my point. Logical decuction is not the phsyical proof you are demanding here. In fact I made the same logical deduction about the existence of God, which was the portion of my post that you chose not to quote. I disagree, you are trying to prove that God exist simply because I can’t not physically prove my ancestor existed. The inability to prove one that is obvious proves that the other must therefore exist. I attempted to point out that there is proof that my ancestor(s) did exist. Science can very simply prove that. I could not at this point tell you their names, where they lived or what they did for a living. But I can stand here and tell you, through scientific facts, which they did exist. All I am asking for is scientific proof that God exists. “When, therefore, we learn that Josephus, for instance, who lived in the same country and about the same time as Jesus, and wrote an extensive history of the men and events of his day and country, does not mention Jesus, except by interpolation, which even a Christian clergyman, Bishop Warburton, calls "a rank forgery, and a very stupid one, too," we can be reasonably sure that no such Jesus as is described in the New Testament, lived about the same time and in the same country with Josephus. The failure of such a historian as Josephus to mention Jesus tends to make the existence of Jesus at least reasonably doubtful.” Author: M M Mangasarian This is my understanding to date. “We only know what we think we know.” That is why I seek more knowledge. If you show me evidence the Bishop Warburton was incorrect in his statement, I will then become more enlightened. |
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25 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84739 | ||
"You can't even prove, in the sense you are talking about, that your own great great great grand mother existed, except by the fact of your own existence." Again you are going off track. My great great great grand mother is not said to have the power to come and go as she pleases. We know and understand how procreation works and since I was born before test tube babys, it is easy to deduce that she existed. With my response, I gave you Title and Author so that you could do research if you liked. Be do the same. I would like to see writings from the time and from other than christian and christian, other than the bible. Thanks |
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26 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84737 | ||
I haven't found the part that says it is a gift! "any explaination is a moot point" ??? Why is that? I am trying to find answers. Is seeking knowledge wrong? I don't believe everything I hear, I need proof. I can prove that Abe Linclon lived. How since I wasn't there. Simple: Democrate and Republicians at the time both agreed that he lived. Historians of all political groups of the time agreed. I can go to where he is buried and do a DNA test. Can I do this with God or Jesus? Am I evil for wanting/seeking the truth? If there is a God, he is the one that gave me this mind! He knows everthing, then he knew that this day would come! | ||||||
27 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84735 | ||
I sorry but that argument just doesn’t make sense. If I ask you, how do you know that Jesus ever existed, you can only tell me feelings and act that you attribute to him. Not actually seeing him. There are many “Christians that are doubting that Jesus ever really existed. If you wish there is one book called “The Myth of God Incarnate” Edited by John Hick. A very interesting book and again written by Christians. There is also a book that is a hundred years old called, “The Truth About Jesus Is He a Myth?” by Mangasar Magurditch Mangasarian who was a Christian. You can download his book at http://gutenberg.net/index.html. | ||||||
28 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84730 | ||
I am sorry, but I don't see it. Jesus said that no one goes to the Father but through him. How does someone, who because of where the were born, raised, and died, and does not know Jesus get to heaven? If I misunderstand, please clearify. Thank you | ||||||
29 | Studying O.T. is creating problems. | Genesis | FreeThinker | 84718 | ||
“How about proof? Have you ever personally meet me? Yet, you don't doubt that I exist! Why not? Have you ever physically seen me, even in a photograph? Yet, you don't doubt that I exist! “ To answer this is simply, you are answering my specific questions with specific answers, whether either one of us likes the others writing is beside the point. The other reason that I believe you exist is that I don’t believe that we have created an AI that is good enough to answer my questions. Lastly on this, I have never seen one million dollars either, but I have seen the progression up to it. “God does not ‘condone’ either one, but provides guidelines to protect the innocent.” Exodus 21 does not sound to me like it protects the innocent at all. 1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. 2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. 5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: This poor servant/slave love a wife for 6 years and now he must leave her to be free! Kids too!! “I don't say these things to be rude, and I hope that they are taken in that manner.” I don’t, I feel that you believe that you are trying to save my soul, which is very kind. I just don’t see things the same way as you and if god understands me and my type, maybe he will show himself so that we can be saved too. |
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30 | Studying O.T. is creating problems. | Genesis | FreeThinker | 84713 | ||
My apologies on sounding angry, I guess that it stems from these discussions. One minute a Christian is telling me that I am damned to hell because the bible says, very clearly and in plain language, that if you don’t do this or don’t believe that you are damned to hell. Then I say, well that bible says this too. And then I get the, “That’s not what it meant.” Or the, “So and so was speaking metaphorically.” And I end up not getting a straight answer. I became atheists after years of this type of debate, discussion, or teachings, however you wish to describe it. After finding some many question in the bible and in the way God’s followers act. I still go to church because there are some good lessons about life to be learned. Do until others and be a good Sumerian and the like, but I noticed that the stories of how to keep slaves and kill the unrighteous and the like are never taught. So, in my mind, if that part of the bible is no longer applicable then how’s the rest of it? If God as not been seen in nearly 2000 years, physically speaking or with proof. You may claim that through God’s grace, the Smart girl was returned to her family. Then I must ask, was it for a lack of grace, or a lack of faith that she was taken in the first place? I have the most difficult time believing that all of man fell from grace because of two cavemen not listening. The day that I became an atheist, it felt like the weight of the world was taken off of my shoulders. I realized that I have only failed myself and that I can fix that. I didn’t anger a god that was sitting there waiting to pronounce eternity in hell for my mistakes. The only reason that I am writing to this forum is that I hope that if there is truly a God that cares about us, that he will show himself to me in a way that I will understand. |
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31 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84708 | ||
What about.. John 3 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.'" John 14:6 |
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32 | Studying O.T. is creating problems. | Genesis | FreeThinker | 84699 | ||
“Since we were all in their genes, we all fell and are part of that sinful nature. It is born in us all.” Adam and Eve and the Tree of Knowledge??? Did you ever wonder if that was like putting a 10 year old in a candy store alone and telling them not to eat any of it? It is quite interesting that two cavemen damned the whole human race. Everyone who followed had no chance. God also let a fallen angel lose on the earth to help this happen. Remember that the angels, even the fallen ones are far superior to humans. What chance did God give us? Then years later, God who could no longer stand the wicked ways of man, sent a flood to wipe them old, save for the family of Noah. What was the first thing Noah did when the floodwaters subsided. He grew a vineyard and got so drunk that he didn’t know what his son was doing to him. Genesis 9 20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. For those that do not know what is meant by this, may Leviticus 18:7-19 will help. 7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. 10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman. 13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman. 14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt. 15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness. 17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness. 18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time. 19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness. So to what do I owe this God that condemned me so long ago? |
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33 | Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve? | Genesis | FreeThinker | 84698 | ||
Speedy, do you realize that using all caps means that you are yelling! | ||||||
34 | Only 144,000 to asend to heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84697 | ||
I am glad to see that you retracted this blast, but nonetheless I must take issue with the way you attacked this person for their alleged beliefs! Also you stated, “Last in I looked God throne was still in heaven.” You have seen this throne? |
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35 | Pure joy in Heaven? | Rev 7:9 | FreeThinker | 84696 | ||
That brings up a good question: If you have no idea that God or Jesus existed, due to where you lived, then do you still go to hell for your ignorance? Jesus only revealed himself of 1 – 3 years. I child growing up in Japan may have never heard of him. Does a just God condemn this child to hell? | ||||||
36 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | FreeThinker | 84629 | ||
Thank you for your insight, but it still does not answer the question. Let me see if I can explain. “What was the alternative? God could avoid evil and it's consequences only by removing our ability to make choices.” We could have still had free choices without killing and raping each other. I think anyway. “Most automatically assume that suffering can only be evil.” The same can be said of pain. A throbbing finger because you hit it with the hammer and a chest pain telling you that your heart is in danger are two totally different types of pain. One is annoying and simply reminds you to aim straight while the other is a warning of a more serious problem. My son does not have to suffer to show his love for me, but he must learn to clean his room which he would call suffering. “As far as proof goes, you mention Elijah and the fire from Heaven. However, are you aware that many of those who 'believed' on that day, later turned repeatedly back to false idols?” If god already knew that, why did he waste his time? Maybe for the few that did believe? As far as I have seen, nobody has ever said anything, in my life, like Elijah. i.e. god is going to make this miracle happen right now in front of your eyes. I have heard things like, when something unexpected but good happens, that was a miracle from God, but when something bad happens the rain falls on the just and the unjust. “Many of those who saw the miracles of Jesus never believed in Him.” What has happened in the last 2k years? Have you seen God or Jesus? I know that you are going to say that you have felt him in your heart, or that he has talked to you in some non-physical way. Why has he not been seen in all this time? “Proof isn't all it is made out to be! ;-) You also mentioned that God should do something to prove that He loves you. He did! He died on a cross for your sins! What more must He do? :-)” Is there any proof to this event other than the Bible? “The failure of such a historian as Josephus to mention Jesus tends to make the existence of Jesus at least reasonably doubtful.” Author: Mangasar Magurditch Mangasarian Title: The Truth About Jesus Is He a Myth? If you get a chance, read this book. The first part of this book is a parable that I found very interesting. You can find it at http://gutenberg.net/index.html Thank you for your help in this. I do realize the consequences for me being wrong are much worse than if you are wrong. So I intend to ask as many questions as I can type and read as many books as I can get my hands on. |
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37 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | FreeThinker | 84600 | ||
Thank you Tim! I didn't look close to the timeline. That makes a lot of sense. On the second point, I still have many questions. Such as: If God knows everything ahead of time, wouldn't have been better that I didn't exist since I no longer believe and therefore damned to hell? What would he do that? He would have known that I would find fault with his book and a host of his followers. I don't say this to be mean! I am very grateful for your enlightening information that you gave to me on the first question! But I do find fault with a god that knows everything and still allows things to happen. He, by your account, knew that Adam and Eve would fail and that Ham would fail after the flood. We own our evil ways to the first two humans that ever existed? And the to Ham that continued it after the world was nearly wiped clean? I never stood a chance! And the only thing that I get told is that be faith I can be saved. Faith!?! No proof? When I was learning math, the teacher had to prove that 4x equals 8 so therefore x equals 2. I didn’t just go on faith. And god knowing all would have realized that, I for one, need proof. If he is truly loving and caring and wants me to have an afterlife in heaven, then he would have proved it to me somehow. The last time god was seen was 2000 years ago! No one has seen him since. My son has faith that I will come home every night after work, why? Because I have proven it to him time and time again. Problems for me: Exodus 21 owning people! I get told that this was OK for the times, but not now. The old testament is not as important as the new. Matthew 5 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Why? Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. This is in discussion on this board right now. Many are giving good spins on it so that it does not sound so bad. So my point to all of this is simply, god knew me, and how he made me, why would he let that happen. If he knew all the problems that creating lucifer would cause, why did he do it? If you say that without knowing evil, how would you know good. Well I don’t know what it is like being antimatter either. I don’t know what it is like being female. So that just doesn’t answer the question. One story in the bible, 1 Kings 18, gives a great story about Elijah who built an altar to god to prove to the follower a baal that god was true and baal was an idol. That is what I am waiting for. As soon as someone lights an altar with no earthly help on command, then I will believe. God obviously cared enough about the followers of baal to prove himself, does he not care enough about me? |
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38 | Was the wine alcoholic or not | John 2:10 | FreeThinker | 84556 | ||
My apologies. When I first read the question, “Was the wine alcoholic or not?” I answered that generic question, I did not realize that this was attached to John 2:10. I have heard many people say that the wine in biblical times was not alcoholic, which is not true. There are occasions in the New Testament where non-alcoholic wine was used. I am certain that the stories of Noah and Lott where told to encourage people not to over indulge. Otherwise what use do those specific parts of the stories have? Some of your responses have been educational, and I appreciate that. Most of the time I get the “Christian Robot” that only knows what their clergy told them. They have never taken the time to read the bible themselves. When I give a response, I try to give chapter and verses of where I got my information. I will read and appreciate all responses that have references. |
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39 | cannot eat pork,seafood? | 1 Tim 4:3 | FreeThinker | 84542 | ||
Sorry, Off the subject, but I have a few questions. Such as, "Noah and his family who were NOT JEWS" then were did the 'New' Jews come from? Are they still the choosen even though the original Jews died in the flood? Second: "I just don't think that God intended" Does God know everything ahead of time or not? When he created the angels did he know that 1/3 would turn on him? When he flooded the world, didn't he know the the grandson of Noah would do what he did? |
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40 | Was the wine alcoholic or not | John 2:10 | FreeThinker | 84538 | ||
How and when did it change? We know from the bible that the ark was like no other boat. Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; To me at least these show that wine was alchohlic even in the new testament. |
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