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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175637 | ||
http://www.worldslastchance.com/pdf/WLC_English.pdf Read and be warned. No, I don't fully agree with the website authors beliefs, and no I'm not 7th Day Aventist. But I am a 7th day Sabbath keeper because that's what Scripture says. But I digress. Rome's wound has been healed. She is a political power. Rome is the beast and most Prostestants are in submission to her for the greatest part of their beliefs. Rome follows Babylon's belief system. I suggest reading "Two Babylons or the Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife" by Alexander Hislop for some eye opening teaching on the practices of Rome. It might even give you pause on some of the observances in your own life |
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2 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175643 | ||
Like I said, I'm neither SDA supporter nor promoter. I do not subscribe to their beliefs except in that the 7th day Sabbath is Scriptural, not the 1st day of the week as promoted by mainstream christianity. 'Nuff said on that. The pdf file I posted was an attempt to answer the original question about the beast in Revelations. I thought that even though I don't line up doctrinally with SDA, the file posted does have quite a bit of thought provoking points to consider. |
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3 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175676 | ||
Colossians 2:16-17 (16) Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in part of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, (17) which are a shadow of coming things, but the body is of Christ I challenge you to try observing the Scriptural calendar to time your year instead of the secular calendar. I challenge you to keep the Sabbath as we are instructed in Scripture. I challenge you to keep the feasts as laid out in Scripture. The above verse will have a whole new meaning to you. That verse was written to gentiles who left their heathen ways, and were following what is now known as Jewish ways. Believe you me, I've had people judge me for keeping this, and some of the inferences are just rude. Yet as a Scripture believer, I have to believe that the Father's way is better than my way, and certainly better than the world's way. Read what the apostles did on the Sabbath. They went to synagogue. Since heaven and earth are still here, these shadows remain. When the new heaven and new earth come, the shadow will be gone, then I can hug and kiss the real deal. No, Yah'shua's work is not finished. He is with the Father waiting until all things are put under his feet. Once he claims his bride, then all will be finished and the shadows gone. Yes, it is a promising road. Paul said to follow him as he followed the Master. Both were Torah observant. Are you following? |
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4 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175682 | ||
What difference does it make? He also used a boat. I suspect if the boat had a motor, he would have used it. While walking was recorded, the wheel had been invented by this time. These are trivial details. Not trivial details are the keeping of the commandments. The commands included the feasts which Paul also said to keep. 1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. This particular feast he spoke of would have been passover immediately followed by the feast of unleavened bread. Revelations 17:17 and 14:12 both teach the keeping of the commandments. So does Yah'shua in Matt 19:17 in telling us if we wish to enter into life, we will keep the commands. Then verse 21 teaches us perfection is giving up what is most dear to ourselves and then following Yah'shua. No, I'm not being a little silly. Silliness is following the pagan ways of Nimrod (our own wisdom) instead of following the wisdom spoken by the mouth of Yahweh. |
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5 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175688 | ||
see, sir, you do not understand Scripture. I am not under the law, I am not saved by the law. I am saved by grace and through faith. There is a difference between obedience and legalism. Obedience is called legalism by those who wish to be disobedient. Yet Yah'shua repeatedly said to keep his commands as he kept his Father's commands. Was he wrong for saying this? Do a word search in Scripture for keeping the commands, it is eyeopening for one who truly wishes to learn Remember, and think carefully, because John 1 tells us that no man has ever seen or heard the Father, but it was the son who revealed. Therefore it was Yah'shua who spoke with Moses and gave the commands. It was also Yah'shua who said not one jot or tittle would pass from the law, yeah, even heaven and earth would pass before that happened. The only change was in the priesthood. And the priesthood change was a regular occurance. In fact, the levitical priesthood was a temporary standin for the priesthood that was like the priesthood of Melchizedek Poor Paul struggled with this concept, explaining it to the people. They were used to the saved by works concept which was false. It always was faith that saved. There are dead works that people do to try to be saved, and then there is obedience to the guidance of the Father. Discern the difference. |
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6 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175689 | ||
Just an FYI, there is no temple in Jerusalem at the present time. No, I wouldn't offer up sacrifice for sin, that has already been accomplished. But I would and will offer a peace offering as did Abraham and Jacob if ever the temple is rebuilt in my lifetime. And you are correct, I also will be led by grace. Torah was grace, otherwise men would have no concept of how to live, it was the only time the almighty Elohim ever spoke to an entire nation, and the whole group heard the commands and agreed to follow. We sir, are grafted into that group through faith. Romans 11 says we are grafted, and that we should not boast against the branches lest we be also cut off by unbelief. I believe and accept the authority of Scripture. The Scripture Paul used and love is what is commonly called Old Testament. That testament still lives! Thousands got saved by through this 'old' testament. Yah'shua preached from it, Paul preached from it, they agreed that it was valid. Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. I ask about this new covenant, has it been established yet? Do you still teach your neighbors about the Lord? Do all people know him? We have promise of this coming to pass, but evidence would indicate that this promise while partially filled, has not been fully fulfilled. We have more to come! That is what is so exciting! Some day this will be, and there will be no more question, because the Father and the Lamb will dwell with us and we will know as we are known! Thanks for the reference to Titus. Check out verse 14. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. iniquity is translated from G458: illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness. The root of G458 comes from G459: From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked: - without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked. So this iniquity word would be well translated lawless. The good works would be the positive commands of Torah. Torah contains negative commands, ie, the thou shalt nots. It also contains positive commands, the do this. It contains specific instructions on how to treat the poor and unfortunant, how to respect parents and elders. These are the good works we should be doing BECAUSE we are saved, not so that we can be saved. Remember, faith does not nullify Torah. Romans 3:31 Paul said he establishes the law. He might well have said properly established, as in put faith first as it belongs, and obedience as a result of this faith. |
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7 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175702 | ||
OK, then, I'll just quote Scripture without interpreting it. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. How then do you line that up with what you say Paul taught? Who do you follow, Paul or Yah'shua? I am not under the law. The curse of the law was death. Yah'shua removed the curse of the law by dying in place of me. He by his own words said the law stands as long as heaven and earth. Last time I checked, those still exist. Reason then would say so does the law |
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8 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175703 | ||
My keeping of the Sabbath is because my Creator said to. No, it doesn't aquire grace. Grace is undeserved favor. I did nothing to deserve favor, I deserved death. However, the price was paid for what I deserved by another who had the power to do so. My faith in Yah'shua is what saves me, and because I am saved I follow the commands of my Savior. Keeping the Sabbath is one of his commands. Sabbath is a blessing of rest and devotion. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day Elohim completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. Gen 2:3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made. It was from the beginning that he set this day apart for rest, and this day was kept even in Yah'shua's life, and even now. Even those close to Yah'shua kept the Sabbath: Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. Notice the first day of the week followed Sabbath, which is on the 7th day just as started immediately following creation. Those who keep the Sabbath do a weekly acknowledgement that they are created beings, and keep this day special out of respect for their Creator |
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9 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175710 | ||
The real Sabbath of rest that we all hope to enter into spoken of in Hebrews, experienced by Abraham, Moses, David and Joshua and the Leader of us all, Yah'shua is not a 'day of rest'. If you will notice the rest that Yah'shua entered into is not in this life. He worked while in this life. Now he is at the right hand of the Father until all things are put under his feet. And you as others seem to pick out things you want to see, and ignore others you do not Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Why as part of this council do they mention the teaching in the synagogue on the Sabbath? Certainly we worship in spirit and in truth. The truth of the matter is that Sabbath was set apart by this same Spirit for our human benefit. You quoted Heb 4:6 but failed to notice that the reason many did not enter into his rest was because of disobedience. Disobedience to what? Certainly the commands. Yet you seem to propose that we are now allowed to break these commands. Do you also propose that gentiles are really given no greater burden than what Acts 15 states? Are gentiles free to steal, kill, bring false witness and many other evils? That certainly wasn't covered in the Acts 15 council. Yes, I know I'm being a bit radical, but I'm trying to get you to think about what you are saying. Acts 15 wasn't all encompassing. It was a beginning point. Yes, CDBJ, I have entered into that rest. But that rest is not fully realized. There remains yet another rest. It has only begun just as Israel didn't fully realize her rest in the promised land. Even if all had gone perfectly for Israel in the promised land, there still would have remained another rest not of this physical life. |
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10 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175714 | ||
But doesn't that make a liar out of the Messiah? Is it not true that he stated that heaven and earth would pass before even one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all is fulfilled? This is one of the commands that Yah'shua says to keep. "Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." Remember that John also testified that no man ever saw the Father, that it was the Son who did all. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Who indeed according to John spoke with Moses and gave the commands? Was it Moses who commanded or was it the pre-existant Son declaring for the Father to Moses? And if the Son gave and kept the commands of the Father, did he not also expect us as believers to keep the same commands? It certainly looks so to me in John 15:10 Simply because a group of people get together and declare something to be a ceremonial law does it invalidate said law. Were the gentiles required to keep it? Read the following and tell me: Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) To me it looks like those without the law perished because of sin against the law. Similarly heathens also have laws, but can their laws save them? Nope, neither does obedience to the 10 commandments save. It's an interesting thing, faith saves, but violation of the law kills. Faith without works is dead. Read and understand James 2. Good works towards man was a very important part of Torah. It was the kindness that was built into it. James likens faith without works to a body without life. It's a useless body indeed. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. Lookie there, if we seek to be justified by the Messiah, and then are sinners, who then is our master? Is Christ our minister while we sin? 1John 3:4 defines sin as transgression of the Law. Since Messiah did not abolish the law, nor did Paul (he couldn't), it stands to reason that the law including the Sabbath command is still binding on civilization. Don't build on a sand foundation, because all your building will crash eventually. Build on the foundation of the Word of the Almighty. His Word was Torah, and his Word was made flesh in Yah'shua Messiah. Follow him! |
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11 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175715 | ||
I am not the judge of that. Yah'shua speaks of who is our accuser to the Father. Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Because I believe Moses, I believe Yah'shua. Otherwise I would not believe he is the Messiah. According to churchianity, there's no way Jesus could be the Messiah because according to churchianity Jesus did away with the everlasting word of the Father. So, I'm not going to accuse you either, it's not my place. But there is one who will accuse you if you sin willfully Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Remember the law of Moses was not Moses' law, if indeed it would have been a law of man, then it would have been useless. This was given THROUGH Moses, THROUGH the WORD (the pre-existant son) by Yahweh HIMSELF. This was and is the word of God. This will accuse you, not me. Moses will be a witness, as indeed will heaven and earth according to Moses: Deu 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: Deu 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. Beware the second death spoken of by John in Revelations |
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12 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175719 | ||
H7676 shabbath: Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: (every) sabbath. H7673 shabath A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away. H7676 is the word translated rest in Gen 2:1. Are you saying the Sabbath was not a day of rest for all people? That the 7th day set apart at creation was set apart for a people 2000 years later? I realize Scripture doesn't show Abraham or Noah resting on the 7th day. Does that prove they didn't? Or was it not mentioned because it was a commonly known practice? Certainly the law given through Moses was not all new. Adultery, murder, and theft were all recorded as unacceptable behavior prior to Moses. One king was threatened with death by Yahweh himself for trying to take Sarah for a wife, even though he didn't know Sarah was married. Even then adultery was punishable by death. So was the law valid BEFORE Moses? Sacrifices certainly weren't new to civilization. My suspicion is that the entire law was in force PRIOR to Moses, that only the Levitical priesthood was new. Prior to that there were other priests of the Most High. Melchizedek was one. Poti-pherah, the father-in-law of Joseph was also a priest, but it is not recorded if he was a priest of a heathen god, or the Most High. Jethro, Moses' father-in-law also was a priest. One would assume he was a priest of the Most High because Moses received counsel from him. This would appear to be what was added because of transgression spoken of in Gal 3:19. Why this conclusion? Because unclean vs clean animals were recorded before Moses. Sacrifice and priesthood was recorded before Moses. Other moral codes were presented before Moses, including the ones I previously mentioned. No, the 7th day Sabbath day of rest was not mentioned as a command previous to Moses, except that Yahweh rested as an example and set that day apart. It is my assumption that he set that day apart for man from creation on, that's why Yah'shua said the Sabbath was made for man. It was sanctified immediately after creation according to Gen 2:3, from that what else could I get from but to mean instituted? |
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13 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175722 | ||
I heartily agree! Disobedience then cost them bigtime. It costs us today. Absolutely faith and obedience are linked. True faith causes obedience. I will disagree with the statement that we are not called to obey every jot and tittle. Without a temple it is impossible to physically do all. Even though we cannot live by all these commands because of this, we live as exiles. We do perform these in our hearts, and would physically if it were possible. At least I would. While a schoolmaster that has done his job is released, but the learning does not get erased. Nor does one who is trained forget his training. That is why Scripture says to train up a child in the way he should go, so that when he is old he will not depart from it. No, we aren't under a schoolmaster, we have been set free to obey the truth, the truth sets us free from the curse of sin and death. Halleluyah!!! |
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14 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175723 | ||
I'm not sure I understand the first point. The people as a whole were and are individually responsible, yet an individual transgression can and does affect the whole group. So IMO a covenant is personal even if it is a group covenant. BTW, who is the 'New Covenant' spoken of by Jeremiah and the writer of Hebrews with? Is this a personal or group covenant? Does it have similar ramifications to the Mosaic covenant? Please don't think I am promoting legaism, salvation by works and that sort of thing. I'm merely promoting obedience to the moral code that our Heavenly Father gave. A simple 'Git 'er done' is all Yahweh ever wanted. That's why the sacrifice of animals for sin wasn't what he wanted. Obedience is what he wanted from the very beginning. Always has been, always will be. Fortunantly he is understanding and forgiving. Yet the prophets all say that time will come to an end, and sinners will be judged. I prefer to be among those who have kept the commandments, and confessed belief in the redeeming power of the blood of Yah'shua! |
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15 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175730 | ||
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16 | U.S.A. the Babylon of Revelations 18? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175731 | ||
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17 | What if both parties want a divorce? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175841 | ||
And when you read and understand the epistle of John when he says In the beginning was the Word... then goes on to say that all things were created by him and for him,... then goes on to say the no man has seen or heard the Father at any time, that it was the Son who declared (revealed) the Father's will to mankind. Read Joh 1:18 So when Paul stated that husbands are to love their wives like Christ loved the church, it brings a whole new meaning to it. The word translated church is G1577 ek-klay-see'-ah From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church. Remember how Israel and Judah strayed and were given a bill of divorce in Jer 3:8? In light of the fact that it was Yah'shua that did the declaring to the Moses and the prophets, it would also have been him that was sheparding Israel that whole time. So even though Judah and Israel whored around with heathen gods, Yah'shua still was willing to come to earth to redeem her. Now, will the men who are really willing to love their wife like Christ loved the assembly please stand up? |
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18 | What if both parties want a divorce? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175853 | ||
That is an excellent wording of this point! I have to remember that. The thing about getting along is what we learn to do, but love is a choice. That gets to the heart! | ||||||
19 | What if both parties want a divorce? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175889 | ||
careful about calling one theologian better than another. Yah'shua said we are brothers, that we are not to elevate ourselves one over another ;-) he who wants to be great is to be the servant of all :-) |
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20 | What if both parties want a divorce? | Bible general Archive 3 | Face | 175919 | ||
No, I wasn't concerned you were elevating yourself, but instead cautioning against looking up to another such as a theologian too highly. Sorry for the misunderstanding |
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