Results 101 - 120 of 1443
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
101 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 25795 | ||
I believe your question is important. And the answers may not be simple. That the Church was in need of reform was not in dispute. All parties agreed on that. The Church is always in need of reform as are all Christians. The question is how to accomplish the reformation? And today how to we heal the Church and restore its vital unity? I believe history is sadly repeating itself everyday with the continuing fragmentation of the Church. The Spirit and Forms of Protestanism by Louis Bouyer is good book on the subject of where the Reformation was right (primacy of grace and scripture)in it's aspirations as well as what it's flaws (extrinsic justification and abandonment of Church Tradition for private interpretation) were. It is written by a man who was both Protestant and Catholic in his life. It is not polemic and is written with a view to reconciliation. In addition to the book mentioned above, Hilaire Belloc wrote two related books: How the Reformation Happened, and Characters of the Reformation. Belloc is an excellent writer and he also was both Protestant and Catholic during his life. His writings are somewhat polemic, but he does make people and history come alive and is fair even to those whose actions or positions he may disagree with. Some of his books are available in text on the web at a variety of sites. I am sorry my answer did not address your original question. It was really more of a response to another member's comments about Constantine and the corruption of the Church in the fourth century. |
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102 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 25899 | ||
I do not know anything about the convergence movement. Where can I see something about it? Where did you read the "white paper"? |
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103 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26022 | ||
With all due respect, the sin of hypocracy is not a doctinal error, but a personal sin to which everyone is susceptible and subject to correction. In fact it was Peter who first was led by God to proclaim that the Gospel was for the gentiles as well as the Jews. Acts 10 and 11. | ||||||
104 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26026 | ||
The image of Mary as Queen of Heaven comes directly from Revelation 12:1-12. This image of the woman clothed with the sun and with a crown of tewelve stars has from the beginning been interpreted on several levels. The woman as Irael bringing forth the Messiah, the Church delivering Christ to the world and Mary bringing forth Jesus into the world. Mary fits all the images. She embodies daughter Zion, she is a symbol of the church and she is the actually mother of the Savior. So as not to make any one post too long I will follow with two more posts on Mary as the Ark of the Covenant and as Mother of God. All with appropriate references to Scripture. | ||||||
105 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26027 | ||
Mary, Ark of the New Covenant Exodus 40:34: "Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle." Luke 1:35: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God" __________________________________________ John 1:13: "Born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh or of the will of man..." Luke 1:34: "I do not know man." John 1:13: "...but of God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt (pitched his tent) among us." Exodus 25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary that I may dwell in their midst" _____________________________________________ Exodus 25: 10-11 "They shall make an ark...and you shall overlay it with pure gold within and without..." Luke 1: 28 “Hail, full of grace!” Exodus 25: 21 "And you shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you." Exodus 25: 22 "There I shall meet with you, and from above the mercy seat..." John 19:25 "…But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother..." ____________________________________________________ 2 Samuel 6:9 "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" Luke 1:43 "And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" 2 Samuel 6:11 "The ark of the Lord remained for three months in the house." Luke 1:56 "And Mary remained with her about three months." 2 Samuel 6:16 "David leaping and dancing before the Lord." Luke 1:41 "The babe leapt in her womb." _________________________________________ Hebrews 9:4 "... the Ark of the Covenant...which contained a golden urn holding the manna and Aaron’s rod that budded, ...and the tables of the covenant." Exodus 16:32-34 Mary is the ark of the new covenant that carried the Word of God and the manna come down from heaven, the bread of life, Jesus, our great high priest. John 6:31-35 “Our fathers ate manna in the wilderness.... The bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world... I am the bread of life." _____________________________________________ The Glory Of the Lord had departed from Israel and the temple when the Ark of the Covenant was lost, and was not seen there again until Mary came with Jesus to the temple. Ezekiel 10:18 "The Glory of the Lord went forth..." Luke 2:25-32 "Now master let your servant go in peace... for my eyes have seen...a light for revelation to the Gentiles and the Glory of your people Israel." Revelation 21:2-3 "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold the dwelling of God is with men, He will dwell with them…’" Revelation 11:19 "Then God’s temple in heaven was opened in heaven, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple... 12:1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars...." Genesis 3:15 "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise his heel." Mary is an example of obedient faith in God and an image and symbol of the Church, which carries Christ into the world. For this reason she was called by the early Greek Christians, Theotokos, or God Bearer. She is also called the Mother of the Church, which is the mystical body of Christ as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:12-30. |
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106 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26028 | ||
Mary, the New Eve "And the Lord God said to the serpent, ...I will put enmity between you and the woman and between her seed and your seed." Genesis 3:14-15 "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun...Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod." Revelation 12:1,4-5 " And the dragon was angry with the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring." Revelation 12:17 "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel." Isaiah 7:14 "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law." Galatians 4:4 ________________________________________ It can be seen that the woman of Genesis 3:15 is Mary, the new Eve, for this mention of the "seed of the woman" in scripture is unique. All other mention of seed always refers to man's seed. But Jesus was born in the flesh of a woman, by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man. Mary is the New Eve, the mother of all the living in Christ Jesus according to the Spirit, just as Eve is "the mother of all the living," in Adam according to the flesh. Genesis 3: 20. Jesus is the New Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 __________________________________________ "Fear not Mary, for thou hast found favor with God...The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: therefore the child which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:30, 35 Here we begin to see that Mary’s dignity grows out of her relationship to Jesus and the Holy Trinity, as does the dignity of every child of God. She is the daughter of the Father, the mother of the Son and the spouse of the Holy Spirit. "Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.... My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior.... Behold from henceforth all generations will call me blessed." Luke 1:45, 46-48 By the same analogy it can be seen that though Eve opened the door to sin and death by her disobedience and "no" to God's command, it was by Adam’s dis- obedience and sin that death entered and enslaved all mankind. So Mary, by her obedience and "yes " to God, opened the door to grace and life for all mankind, which was secured by the obedience of the Savior, Jesus. "Just as through one man's disobedience, many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Romans 5:19 ___________________________ As in Genesis 3:6, Eve prodded Adam into disobedience and sin, so in John 2:3-5, Mary instigates the beginning of the saving ministry of Jesus by her prodding at Cana. "So she took some of the fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate it." Genesis 3:6 "The mother of Jesus said to him, 'They have no wine.' Jesus said to her, 'Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.' His mother said to the servers, 'Do whatever he tells you.' " John 2:3-5 Those are the last words of Mary recorded in scripture: "Do whatever he tells you." |
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107 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26035 | ||
Greetings Nolan. You did not addess the scripture or back up you opinion statement with scripture. |
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108 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26039 | ||
Indeed, God can save us from the pit of sin or before we fall into it. Either way God saves. If you were God and could create your own mother, would you create her pure or stained with sin? It would be your doing not her's. Luke 1:28 "Full of grace,” in the Greek, "kecharitome" is a perfect passive participle indicating "one (she) who has been perfected in grace,” a past action that is ongoing. |
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109 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26044 | ||
Have I accused you of having interpretive opinons flawed by your Protestant tradition? Nobody comes to a discussion without a point of view or tradition that was passed down to them, even yourself. I presented scripture and interpretation. I did not attack anyone or any other tradition. Am I not entitled to my own position in a discussion? | ||||||
110 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26045 | ||
Did Jesus have a mother? What was her name? Was Jesus God? Was there more than one Jesus, the God Jesus and the man Jesus? Do women give birth to natures or to persons? Jesus was one divine person, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Mary was the mother of that Incarnation. That is not the same as saying she created the pre-existent deity or that she is in any way equal to God. Look up the Nestorian heresy. | ||||||
111 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26056 | ||
I am content let my original three posts on Mary and Scripture speak for themselves to those who wish to read and meditate on them and reach their own conclusions. Anything else would be to invite a forum version of a WWF caged ring championship match. It was my understanding that this was scripture discussion forum, not a Catholic bashing forum. Blessings to all on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception! |
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112 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26202 | ||
Thank you for your response. I have not missed the irony of the context. However, I thought the topic "When did the Catholic Church go wrong" rather odd on scripture discussion forum. Most questions seem to be related to scriptural text. I posted my answer to your question since it was an open minded question with a scriptural answer. Satisfaction with the answer is not guaranteed as recipeients may disagree with the interpretation. Howerever, it is the scriptural answer that the Catholic Church gives and your question was when did the Catholic Church come up with Mary as Queen of Heaven. |
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113 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26212 | ||
Done. My last response to the person who posed the original question about Mary was not intended to extend any debate. In fact my intention was never to ignite a debate, just to answer to the question posed. | ||||||
114 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26244 | ||
My faith is in Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity. I relate to Mary and any other saints only in the context that they are in Christ. Without Jesus there is no context or significance. |
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115 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26354 | ||
As I said before,satisfaction with my answers is not guarenteed. But I do not believe that a personal relationship with Jesus precludes a personal relationship with His friends and my brothers and sisters in Christ whether they be here on earth or in heaven with the Lord. I do the Lord no disservice by acknowleging his companions here or in heaven. The fact that Jesus is in heaven does not keep me from having a personal relationship with Him here in my heart. | ||||||
116 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26359 | ||
Which Church wrote the early Creeds and how did that Church interpret the communion of saints? Here is how a few members of that early Church understood the communion of saints. All predate 325 A.D. while the Church was still being persecuted and before Constantine declared the Edict of Milan. I do not think these were people who had abandoned the faith of the Apostles or who were unfamiliar with their writings in Scripture. Scriptures follow. You may disagree with the early fathers or the intreptation of the scripture as presented, but this is how I see it. Clement of Alexandria "In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]). Origen "But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]). Cyprian of Carthage "Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]). Methodius "Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness" (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]). "Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away" (ibid.). "And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’" (ibid.). After the divisions of the Reformation some churches do interpret communion of saints as you do. Are we still alive in Christ after we die? Asleep is a euphemism that means we are not truly dead and without hope but are truly alive in Christ but are dead only in the flesh. It is true a few groups such as the Adventists and The Jehovah witnesses, I believe, who subscribe to the sleep theory as you appear to interpret sleep in Thessalonians. Moses and Elijah when they appeared with Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration did not seem asleep to the three apostles who were present. In Revelation, "the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). This looks like the saints in heaven offering to God the prayers of the saints on earth. The elders look like the saints in heaven to me. " Another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4). "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). Looks like intercession by angels to me. The peace of Christ to you Bob. |
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117 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26362 | ||
Well I do wish you the best in your walk with the Lord. Believe me, I am not relying on luck but on Jesus. It has been an honest exchange I think. I pray God bless you in every way, without any intention to offend. | ||||||
118 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26505 | ||
Hank, We do pray "to" Mary in the old sense of the word in this case. Such as Elizabethean english, i.e. "I pray you Sir, hear me out and join me in prayer to the Lord on this matter." It is a pleading to the person of dignity being addressed. In the case of the Hail Mary the prayer says "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you! Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus! Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." You see that we are first "praying the scriptures" Luke 1:28, 42, 48, 43, and then we are asking Mary to pray for us to the Lord even as I might ask you to do the same. For "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16. I might add that Catholics are not required to pray to Mary. But then we are not required to ask anyone else to pray with or for us either. It is simply the natural and scriptural thing to do. Family members and friend pray with and for one another. We are the family of God. |
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119 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26738 | ||
Hank, I will have to answer your questions in a series of responses due to space limitations and the nature of your questions and my time limitations due to other responsibilities. The brief answer to why we call Mary holy is because she is the Mother of God Incarnate, Emmanuel, God with us, Jesus Christ, who by his very presence in her womb sanctified her and made her holy, even as his presence in us sanctifies us and makes us holy. Luke 1:28, 43, Matt 1:23. The angel calls Mary "Full of grace," or highly favored" depending on your translation. It is God who sanctified and made her holy. We fulfill the scripture when we call her "the Blessed Mother" Luke 1:48. We wonder why other Christians who focus so intently on scripture seem afraid to fulfill the same passage and call her blessed as we do with natural ease. To love and honor Mary is not to reduce our love for Jesus. No one could honor her more than God who chose her and Jesus who surely perfectly fulfilled the commandment to honor father and mother. We imitate Jesus in honoring her. But it is not the worship we give to Jesus. The reason it may seem to you that Catholics place more emphasis on Mary than the scripture do, I believe is because we may approach scripture some what differently and in a different context. Paticularly in how we view the communion of saints in the broad sense of all the faithful here and in heaven. Mary of course because she was chosen by God to bear Jesus, the Lord, holds a higher status than any other saint. She is also considered the perfect model of humble discipleship and obedience to God and symbolizes the whole Church and its mission to carry Christ and the gospel into the world as obedient disciples. |
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120 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26887 | ||
Hank, You asked me to explain the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and how it can be justified by scripture.The key text for the doctrine is Luke 1:28. “Hail full of grace!” Implicit, not explicit, in that passage is the fullness of holiness by God’s grace. The Greek word used for full of grace is “kecharitome”, a perfect passive participle indicating “one (she) who has been perfected in grace,” a past action that is ongoing. Fullness of grace is incompatible with sin. Nevertheless, one who demands an explicit “proof text” might says Luke 1:28 does not satisfy their demand. However, there is more to the matter than a single verse from the Catholic perspective. Christians read scripture in several ways. Two of them are the literal and the typological senses. St. Paul was a master of typological interpretation of the Old Covenant in light of the New Covenant. This sense of interpretation is also prominent in the writings of the early Church Fathers following his pattern. As Paul saw Jesus Christ prefigured in many inferior ways in the Old Testament (Hebrews 1:1, Colossians 2:17; 1 Corinthians 15: 22, 45; Romans 5:14; Hebrews 10: 1; Hebrews 17 are just a few examples, so you see the same pattern in reference to Mary in my original posts on Mary, Ark of the New Covenant and Mary the New Eve on 12-8-01. Please refer back to them. A rule of biblical typology is that the New Testament fulfillment is always greater and more perfect that the Old Testament foreshadowing type. As Jesus is superior to Adam and the perfect new Adam, so Mary is superior to Eve. Both Adam and Eve were created or “conceived” in the mind and action of God without sin, yet they both fell. So Jesus and Mary must be superior to Adam and Eve in that they are both conceived without sin, but remained obedient and did not sin. Jesus is perfect of course due to His own merits, Mary due to God’s prevenient saving grace in fulfillment of God plan of Salvation. This is a very brief treatment of the subject, but something worth exploring on your own if you are so inclined. Thank you for your kind words. Peter, popes and infallibility, next post, per your request. |
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