Results 21 - 40 of 114
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Results from: Notes Author: Curtnsally Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33685 | ||
So, if I understand you correctly, you would say that all are elect? | ||||||
22 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33687 | ||
I agree. I struggle with the free will vs election doctrines because I see them as a sovereignty issue. In my opinion, "free will" is very suitable to our culture (Americans want choice in everything), but I question myself in whether this is the nature of God or just my own preference... I wonder if it doesn't deny the sovereignty of God... ie that we can't even seek Him until He puts it on our heart to do so. Blessings Curt |
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23 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33689 | ||
Thanks for the encouragement! I count it a privilege in Christ to be in the PCUSA, as any missionary would see their mission. And its not so hard, particularly when we consider the missionaries we have in places like the Middle East! I count my blessings! Certainly we all cling to the verse "If God be for us, who could be against us". The gates of hell shall not prevail (even in the PCUSA)! Blessings Curt |
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24 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33695 | ||
Thanks Robert First, I agree, our minds are puny when we try to understand the largeness of God. Second, by no means do I want God to do what is "fair" for in this we are all condemned! My question is not so much " why this, or why that"... rather, it goes to "what is the nature of our relationship with God?" I ask this question because I believe that God is relational, and that He does want us to understand our relationship with Him (which goes something like this: God BIG, me little). I believe that the purpose of Scripture is exactly that, ie God communicating the nature of His relationship to us. Regarding the John 3 verses, I think it remains (in my mind) a question of this: can we believe unless God puts it on our heart to believe? Is it grace plus, or grace alone? Isn't our ability to believe an issue of faith, and isn't faith a gift from God? I think of Paul. He did not seek God, in fact God said to him "Why are you persecuting Me?". He was not being faithful. Yet God chose Paul and saved him from his sin. It was not God plus Paul, it was God in spite of Paul. By the way, this has been true in my life as well. Likewise, the fact that God chose Israel, by necessity, means He did not choose another people group. In this, I can only conclude that God is sovereign (I mean really really really sovereign) and can choose whom He pleases. To bring it down to a personal level, I'll ask you to consider a rhetorical question... In your own life, do you believe that your salvation was secured by God plus your desire for Him, or by God, in spite of you? In other words, if God hadn't reached out and grabbed you, would you have been saved? Did He put the desire in your heart, or was it inherently in you? Still pondering too Curt |
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25 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33698 | ||
Brother Tim This is a very enticing argument. One difficulty I have with it, though, is that the word elect implies a "choosing from". If there are chosen ones, are there not also "not chosen" ones, otherwise, what was the choice? If God has chosen all, then why did He say He was choosing? It is warm and fuzzy to say everyone is welcome, but I'm struggling with whether this isn't just my preference, not God's reality. Still thinking Curt |
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26 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33699 | ||
Thanks for the thoughts Hank. And good ones, at that. Curt |
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27 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33703 | ||
The problem with your view, in my humble opinion, is that it makes light of Scripture. I give you 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" If we take Scripture in its entirety, there is considerable discussion of "the elect" and God's sovereign right to choose. In fact, the word "elect" appears 9 times in the NT and the word "chosen" appears 116 times in Scripture. However the words "free will" do not appear once. God didn't just give us Scripture to make us feel good. God gave us Scripture to teach us. Unfortunately, millions more people have been chained by their ignorance of Scripture than by their study of it. By the way, since you brought it up, the Bible belt is in the south. And apostacy emanates from all places, Yale Divinity included. As I recall, it was northerners who brought slaves from Africa... but that doesn't count I guess. The good news is that God is merciful. But we can only understand that mercy, and the value of faith, love, hope and grace if we understand our hopelessness without them. Thus, the whole message of the Bible is first the bad news (the ten commandments which we cannot keep), and then the good news (that Christ died to pay the price for our sin). My point is that we can't just ignore some verses because we don't like them. BTW, "hell" is used 13 times in the NT, so you're ok there. Blessings Curt |
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28 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33708 | ||
Hank Good for you! Sorry for the PCUSA. I'm an elder in a great little PCUSA church, and believe me, we have had the same struggles along the way, including the never-ending discussion as to whether we should keep our church in the denomination. I fully appreciate why you left, but am always sorry to see believers leave. As a missionary reporting from the PCUSA field, you'll be happy to know (if you dont already) the the current denominational vote on sexual purity is going very well for the evangelicals. With 1/3 of the presbyteries in, the vote is running about 3 to 1 in favor of sexual purity, and against the ordination of practicing homosexuals. While many outside the denomination would say "why is that even a question", we who feel called and planted here see God at work, just as any missionary would feel. Slowly, evangelicals are reclaiming the denomination with considerable help from our Lord. The "Confessing Church" movement is really taking hold and, while there are a regions which remain hotbeds of apostacy (Baltimore - my home - being one), the denomination as a whole seems to be moving back toward a personal relationship with God in Christ. For this we give praise and thanks to God! Blessings Curt |
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29 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33716 | ||
Bingo! I could not agree more. We follow the Great Commission because we are commanded to. God chooses whom He will... He knows which seed will be harvested and which will wither, we do not. Thus we carry the message to all, and let God do the rest. My salvation story is similar to your Dad's but much seedier. I KNOW that God chose me, not the other way around. He grabbed me by the collar, spun me around and pointed me in the right direction. He saved me from an abysmal self-destructive life. He is the sovereign merciful Lord to whom I owe all. I had nothing to do with my salvation, and freely admit it. One of the strongest supports, in my view, for the doctrine of election is the personal testimonies of people who are saved! By the way, to solve your "disappearing text" problem (my home computer does the same) do this: When you preview the text, use your mouse to highlight the text you wrote. With the text highlighted, press CTRL-C to copy it to memory. Then back up from your preview. Click your mouse pointer once on the text window. Then press CTRL-V to paste the text back into the window. This will get you back to where you were. Blessings Curt |
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30 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33725 | ||
Hank and Kalos This is exactly the concern I have, and the reason I initiated this discussion. I think we are very comfortable with the free will position, but that the doctrine of election makes folks nervous. For myself, I am trying to guard against comfort at the expense of sovereignty. Curt |
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31 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33751 | ||
Thanks Brother Barry, Picking up your thought... In John 15:16, Jesus says, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." Jesus says specifically that we did not choose Him. If "the elect" is everyone, then what does the following verse mean? Matthew 24:31 "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." So is every human saved? I know you are not a universalist! When Jesus knocks, do we respond from our own heart? Romans 3:11 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. When Jesus knocks, we hear Him because He give us ears to hear... You are right, it is the Holy Spirit that tugs at our heart, and He gives us a heart for Him. We ouselves cannot desire Him on our own. In the final analysis, you are correct when you say, "it's not how a person gets to the point of Salvation but if indeed they are saved, if indeed one did accept Jesus into their heart." After being chosen, of course. (ok, a little dogmatic, lol) Blessings Curt |
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32 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33753 | ||
Really well said Joe. | ||||||
33 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33800 | ||
Again, Zach can speak for himself, but let me respond to your response to me. I said "free will or CHOICE". I assume you know what the word choice means. Dictionaries often use a word in the context of a sentence to help the reader understand the meaning. Free will implies that, once God offers the gift of salvation to us, we have the CHOICE to accept or reject it. I hope this clears up what I was trying to say. Blessings Curt |
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34 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34047 | ||
Charis I absolutely agree with you. You misunderstood the two posts previous, in which I was trying to define the doctrine of free will for someone else. The first post juxtaposed free will vs pre-destination or election. I am a five point Calvinist, and have actually been pretty vocal on this forum about election. Iwas, however, trying to define free will for the other person without prejudice as to what I believed. Maybe I was a little too casual. Blessings Curt |
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35 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34048 | ||
Zach Not to be too dogmatic, but can you support that with scripture? Blessings Curt |
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36 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34050 | ||
Hank, my friend Am I understanding your question right? What price do you think Jesus paid for us? (I'm not asking this rhetorically). When Jesus hung on the cross and asked the Father, "Why have You forsaken Me" ... what did He mean? Isn't separation from God one characteristic of hell? Could Jesus really pay for our sins any other way... would any other way be sufficient payment for all the sins of everyone throughout history? Certainly physical death on the cross wasn't the sum total of the payment... there had to be a spiritual element to it as well? Help me out here... I want to understand what you think. Blessings Curt If this was already answered in previous posts, my apologies, as it is late and I dont have time to read all. |
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37 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34053 | ||
Exactly... BUT... I believe God chooses each one that He chooses for a purpose... a particular call. Not enough time to flesh this out with scripture, but wanted to register the thought. Blessings Curt |
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38 | please include specific scripture. | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34174 | ||
The flaw in you logic is that you appear to hold God accountable for the sins of man. That aside, are you trying to say that Native Americans were peaceful? If so, you should review the history of the Iriquois, Shawnee, Sioux and others Native American warriors who were constantly at battle with each other, often brutally. The truth is that there are no people groups that have a spotless past. Should we then say that there is no hope? Of course not. We should continue to work toward improving the relationships between people groups. The past cannot be changed, but a better future is within our grasp. Blessings Curt |
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39 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34176 | ||
Thanks Hank I've read enough of your stuff to know better than to doubt you on key theological points... you just threw me for a loop with the wording. Thanks for the clarification! I agree wholeheartedly with your closing comment. Blessings Curt |
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40 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 34182 | ||
It's comforting to know that, while I am sleeping, you are guarding the forum with wise counsel and Scripture! :-) I know what you mean about keeping up with posts... I have learned pretty quickly that there is a pyramid effect (for every post I write, four come back for comment... for every comment, four more for further comment, etc, ad nauseum). Apology not necessary... I just wanted to set the record straight for foundational purposes :-) so as not to be confused in future discussions. Hope you are sleeping comfortably as I write this! zzzzzzzzzzz Blessings in Him Curt PS I am a five point Calvinist, with occasional brain hiccups. |
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