Results 61 - 80 of 177
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Results from: Notes Author: Bill Mc Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Steve, are these verses in your Bible? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16288 | ||
Steve, I did. See the prior thread. | ||||||
62 | Did you forgive the Tuesday terrorists? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16293 | ||
1 John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN you for His name's sake. True, no comment is necessary. |
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63 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16301 | ||
Steve, yes, this verse is not in effect after the cross. In the same way that OT animal sacrifices are not in effect after the cross. I am not cutting any verse out. Because I believe in Christ's once-for-all sacrifice does not mean that I cut out the Old Testament. But there is a reason that God gave us the New Testament. I don't believe that the Spirit of God will ever leave me. Does that mean that I cut out where David said, "Don't take Your Spirit from me." No. I don't cut it out. But I do recognize that there is a distinction in the covenants and that I, as a New Testament believer would not pray that prayer. In Him, Bill Mc |
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64 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16303 | ||
Steve, on a personal note.................If you would like to study the New Covenant - what it is, what it does, when it went into effect, how it relates to the Old Covenant, then click on my name and send me an email. I would be happy and thrilled to go through this with you one-on-one using NOTHING else but your Bible. I promise, NOTHING else but the scripture you have in your hands. One of the reasons that Christians get so confused is that they don't know about the New Covenant or when it went into effect. So they take all the teachings of Christ and say, 'Well, this must be for me.' Frankly, dear brother, not everything Christ said is for the believer. But you will never be able to discern what is and what is not until you understand what the New Covenant (Testament) is. Would you be willing to learn? In Him, Bill Mc |
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65 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16307 | ||
Steve, one final note on Matthew 6:14. I am not saying that Christians shouldn't or don't forgive. What I am saying is that our motivation to forgive changes. The Spirit of God goes so much farther than rules ever could. How so? If we, as believers, only go by the letter of the law on this verse, many will forgive not because it is the Christ-like thing to do, but because they are afraid that God won't forgive them. It's like if you wronged me, I would then think, "Gee, I HAVE TO forgive Steve because, boy, if I don't, then God won't forgive me." So I forgive you (or at least say I do) purely out of selfish motive. I am worried, not about our relationship as brothers in Christ, but about my status before God. God has something better. Here it is: Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also HAS FORGIVEN you. Col 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord FORGAVE you, so also should you. If you've wronged me, I can say, "You know what? God, in His grace, because of the blood of Jesus Christ, has forgiven Steve EVERY sin he has ever or will ever commit. God has accepted Steve as His child. And God has done the same for me. If the Lord forgave me, and forgave Steve, then who am I to hold a grudge. Am I greater than God's grace? Steve and I are brothers in Christ. That is a fact. So we need to act like brothers. Steve, you've wronged me but I care about our relationship so much that there must be a way to work this out." See where my motivation is now? Is it on myself? Or is it on Christ and what He has done? (He forgave us both and He has made us brothers in the same family) When I understand what Christ has truly done and how much I have been forgiven, then I will be prone to forgive BECAUSE I have been forgiven, not to OBTAIN it. Do you understand what I am saying here? In Christ, Bill Mc |
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66 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16335 | ||
Dear schwartzkm, not all of Jesus' teaching are in effect for believers today. Consider Luke 14:33 - "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions." Jesus was calling for disciples to literally give up ALL their possessions to follow Him. He demonstrated this with His own 12 disciples. Peter and John left their nets and followed Him. Matthew left his tax collecting. If you are going to interpret this literally for the 'modern' Christian, are you going to give up or sell ALL your possessions? This is what Jesus taught, is it not? Or, as stated elsewhere, what about Matthew 10:5,6 -These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This was a COMMAND of Christ to His disciples. Are we, as His disciples, to follow this command? Doesn't the great commision supercede this? We must use DISCERNMENT in studying the scriptures. And we must use proper translation techniques with ultimate reliance on the Holy Spirit to take the things of God and make them known to us. Blessings in Christ, Bill Mc |
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67 | Why the forgiveness strawman? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16365 | ||
schwartzkm, great post. I agree. Tyndale has indeed echoed what I have been trying to say. He says, those 'men who have experienced (past tense) God's forgiveness are accountable to display forgiveness toward others.' Yes, we will give an account of our attitudes and actions while in the body. But I believe that there is a HUGE difference between saying that we will give an account and that we ARE NOT FORGIVEN as I understand Steve to be saying. Steve has reinforced that principle time and again. I, obviously, view the chasm as wider that you do. But the way his original question is asks supports his assertion. He says, "Did you forgive the Tuesday terrorist?" He then quotes Matthew 6:14 to substantiate that if people have not forgiven the terrorists, then God will not forgive their sins. I see this as a gross misinterpretation of the forgiveness that the cross of Christ provided for the believer. We must all decide for ourselves (hopefully through the study of God's Word) what we believe about the forgiveness of sins. But I think scripture supports the view that our forgiveness rests upon Christ's work on the cross alone. I will not back down from that view and I will try, as best as I can, to share it in the spirit of love. Thanks for your comments, Bill Mc |
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68 | I do agree with most of your post, but.. | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16372 | ||
Thanks for your clarification. Christians DO live differently. Thanks for your Etymology (sounds like a medical procedure :)) We disagree on the forgiveness issue though. I believe it is a done deal. Christ prayed this prayer BEFORE He provided total forgiveness for sins at the cross. And that's OK if we disagree (on my side anyway). I just take issue with the 'forgive or God won't forgive you' view. See Eph 4:32; Col 3:13. Thanks again. Blessings in Christ, Bill Mc |
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69 | Shouldn't we obey ALL God's Word? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16443 | ||
Thanks, brothers, for your input, comments and that illustration. The Lord bless you both for the seeds you sow here. In Him, Bill Mc | ||||||
70 | Does this passage mention Christ? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16444 | ||
Thank you for interaction on this topic. Grow in grace. In Christ, Bill Mc | ||||||
71 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16446 | ||
Joe, I know. If you have time, read the rest of my comments here. I was trying to show Steve that not everything that Christ said is directly applicable to the 'modern' believer. If you read the rest of my comments, you'll see where I was trying to go with this. I agree 100 percent with what you say about this passage. In Him, Bill Mc |
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72 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16447 | ||
Dear Joe, I agree. True faith is demonstrated by abiding in Christ and He is faithful to fulfill His commandments in us. Thank God that He has grafted us into the one "Good Tree". We can now draw our life from the true Vine and bear fruit for God. PTL. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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73 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16467 | ||
Yes, Joe, I know that you hold to that view. I respect your view, brother, and, from reading your previous post, I understand it. I just view it from a different perspective. Christ said that all the commands are summed up in loving God and loving others. These are what He called the two greatest commands. Where I agree with you, Joe, is that IF we love God and love others, we WILL HAVE ACTIONS that prove, substantiate, validate this love. I will not dispute that. But we love God and love others because He FIRST loved us and loved others, and, because He is in us, He now does that through us (i.e. I could NEVER love the terrorists by my own strength and estimation of what love is). My motivation for love is from Christ in me, not from a motivation of 'Christ said do this...so I better do it.' Thanks for your comments. In Him, Bill Mc |
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74 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16543 | ||
Dear Joe, Please see my 3 part post (way down below) on forgiveness. I explain my reasoning there. Thanks for your interaction. In Him, Bill Mc |
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75 | Forgiveness - Part 2 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16567 | ||
Dear Tim, please don't think that I am regulating everything that Christ said (or even the entire Sermon on the Mount) to only applying to the Old Covenant. If you have perceived that that is what I'm saying, then either I missed something in my explanation or you have misunderstood me. Christ did often teach and uphold the law. But our Lord often exercised grace and mercy one on one. Consider the woman caught in adultery. The law said that for her sin, she should die. Christ NEVER rescinded that. Instead, He took it to a heart issue and caught the self-righteous in their own trap. But, to the adulteress He said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." People will sometimes read my comments and say, 'Bill is a Pauline.' Or, 'Bill doesn't believe that anything Jesus said is applicable to the Christian.' That allegation is simply not true. And I am not trying to set myself up as the judge of what applies and what does not. But I do feel that certain issues, forgiveness being one of those issues, were dealt with COMPLETELY at the cross. We, as Christians, MUST understand what happened at the cross and the resurrection if we are to properly understand Christ's teachings. I.e., if the OT means of providing forgiveness was sufficient, then why did Christ die to provide another way? Why didn't He just leave the animal sacrifice system alone? Why? Because that system pointed to HIM and what HE would do. Hebrews says time after time how superior the New Covenant, the new High Priest, the new priesthood, the new sacrifice is to the old. As I've tried to show in these posts, ultimate forgiveness was provided at the cross. Almost everything that Christ said about the cross and His death related to sins and forgiveness. So, to me, the cross is the final word on the forgiveness of sins for mankind. Is the Sermon on the Mount a presentation of the Kingdom of God? Surely. Christ was dealing with the attitudes of the heart and their subsequent actions. Much of what He says is of the style, 'the law says...but I tell you...' And He told the people that unless their righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees (letter-of-the-law righteousness) they would not enter the kingdom of heaven. He covers many topics here: personal relationships, giving to the poor, fasting, true wealth, anxiety, judging others, prayer, etc. Does the cross deal DIRECTLY with these issues? No, not directly. But our lives AFTER the cross does. And if your walk with the Lord is anything like mine, believe me, the Holy Spirit deals with me on these issues. But the forgiveness issue is dealt with DIRECTLY at the cross. That is while I feel that a subsequent revelation (complete forgiveness through Christ's sacrifice) supercedes what He taught here. Could I be wrong? Yes. I could be. And like my 1 John 1:9 post, challenge me. Where, after the cross, does God say 'forgive or you will not be forgiven.' (If you do, let's start another thread, OK?) I am not saying that I will resort to this tactic for every argument. But, dear Tim, you know, if you're a pastor, many, many Christians are confused about the forgiveness of sins. Why do you think this topic is such a hot one on the forum? There must be an answer. We are all seeking it. Thanks for your kind critique. Keep me challenged. Blessings to you, brother Tim. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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76 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16569 | ||
Tim, one small note. You said, 'Because, forgiveness of sins was obtained through the sin sacrifice, not through forgiving others. So, what part did forgiveness of others play in our forgiveness.' Even under the New Covenant, with Christ as the once for all sacrifice, not everyone has received that forgiveness. Yes, I believe in unlimited propitiation :), but I belive that forgiveness is PROVIDED for at the cross and RECEIVED at conversion. Why? Because forgiveness in the NT is only found IN CHRIST. Similarly, the OT sacrifices PROVIDED for forgiveness but, is it possible (see my other post here) that it was only received by faith? Forgiveness of others would play a part here, as I have stated concerning Matt 5:23,24. |
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77 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16601 | ||
Tim, see my response to part 2. Even under OT sacrifice, I don't feel that God just forgave because the offering was made. I noted in my response that God wanted Saul's obedience not sacrifice. And also the OT mentions where God says that His is sick of the sacrifices because people were just going through the motions (aren't you glad WE no longer do that?). I don't think that if the offering was offered with out repenting that God did honor the sacrifice. I.e. if you came to God with your bull or goat and still had unforgiveness in your heart, I don't feel the God was OBLIGATED to accept the offering. So I am not nullifying this scripture at all. I am saying that, under the New Covenant where forgiveness is based on GRACE (remember that word :)) God forgives on based, not on what we do or don't do, but upon the finished work of His Son, Jesus Christ. I won't 'convert' you (that's God's job) :) In Him, Bill Mc |
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78 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15268 | ||
Dear Nolan, I requested examples of believers AFTER the death of Christ (when the New Covenant went into effect) asking God for forgiveness. Let's see what you offered: "If you contend that we should not ask for forgiveness (believers) in light of our sin, then how do you handle these passages: Matthew 7:11, John 14:13, 15:16, 16:23,26 that seem to say that the Father will honor our request and forgive us if we will only ask Him?" None of these passages are talking about forgiveness. Do you then, Nolan, use these passages to ask God for redemption, reconciliation, sanctification, or a new Cadillac? "A New Testament example?" Acts 3:19 - Peter is refering to what the prophets foretold, that Messiah would wipe away sins. See verse 20 - "that He may send Jesus" Did He do this or not? Acts 8:22 - Spoken to Simon (an unbeliever at the time - he was trying to buy God's power) Acts 17:30 - Paul is speaking to the men of Athens, very religious, but certainly not Christians Acts 26:20 - That the Gentiles (unbelievers) would repent and turn to God. Again, not to Christians Rev. 2:5, 2:16,21-22, 3:19, - Obviously, written to churches made up of, then as now, both unbelievers and believers. This is the same way as the churches that received John's letters. Churches have both believers and unbelievers in them. You have not proven your point or answered my questions. And, the 'ask anything in My name' passages are all taken out of context. Frankly, as knowledgeable as you are about scripture, I'm surprised you resorted to that. But you did surprise me. I've never seen anyone use those scriptures to substantiate 1 John 1:9. Let's try an easier one. What does 1 John 2:12 mean to you? This is the same author, the same audience EXCEPT he is addressing his 'little children.' "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins HAVE BEEN (past tense) FORGIVEN you for His name's sake. Also, compare 1 John 1:8 - 'the truth is not in us' with 1 John 2:21 - 'you do know it (truth). These MUST be two different audiences, his 'little children' and the gnostic element. Nolan, if you can't answer my questions without pulling verses out of context, then it would be best to let someone else reply. Thank you. In Him, Bill Mc |
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79 | Darkness vs. Light | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15269 | ||
Nolan, please consider Hebrews 10:14-18: Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Heb 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Please refrain from using the Old Covenant to answer a New Covenant question. In Him, Bill Mc |
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80 | Darkness vs. Light | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15271 | ||
Amen! | ||||||
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