Results 261 - 280 of 517
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Results from: Notes Author: Beja Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
261 | Why do i need to love god? | John 3:16 | Beja | 223455 | ||
Inquisitor, Gal 2:15,16 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, Rom 3:23-26 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Rom 5:1,2 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. Now here are some that continue the same but also include the teaching of imputation, which is Christ giving us a righteousness that is not our own, nor from any work we do, but counting the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ as ours through faith in Him. That is imputation. Rom 3:21,22 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction Php 3:8,9 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 2Co 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 1Co 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, Our deeds are nothing and can gain us nothing! We do not even know how to begin doing good until after we are saved! Jer 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil. On the contrary, God saves us and changes us SO THAT we can now do good works. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9,10 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Inquisitor, salvation and all these things come to us when we not only repent of our sins, but we also repent of any notion that we can ever do good, or fulfill a law, or satisfy his commands. We give up the notion that we in ourselves can present anything, and in utter bankruptcy we plead nothing but the blood and righteousness of Jesus Christ before God. That is placing our trust, our faith, in Jesus Christ. Please, turn from this false gospel you are preaching. We do not receive salvation through obeying his commandments, but only through faith and faith alone! In Christ, Beja |
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262 | what does GOD think of us? | John 3:16 | Beja | 224598 | ||
Bradk, This is not me disagreeing, but rather I think the last verse in that chapter should also be given to round out the answer. Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." God surely is love, but lets all not forget that is wrath is on those who are not in Christ. In Christ, Beja |
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263 | forgivness of sins | John 3:16 | Beja | 226181 | ||
DD4Truth, You are mistaken concerning eis in acts 2:38 and here is the reference to correct you. This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology. In themselves the words can express aim or purpose for that use of "eis" does exist as in 1 Cor. 2:7....But then another usage exists which is just as good Greek as the use of "eis" for aim or purpose. It is seen in Matt. 10:41 in three examples "eis onoma prophetou, diakaiou, mathetou" where it cannot be purpose or aim, but rather the basis or ground, on the basis of the name of prophet, righteous man, disciple, because one is, etc. It is seen again in Matt. 12:41 about the preaching of Jonah....They repented because of (or at) the preaching of Jonah. The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koine generally (Robertson, Grammar, p. 592). One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, III:35-36). This individual is considered to be quite an authority on Greek. Further, if you own a copy of Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin I can point you to a section in it that explains very well how at the same time we are able to say that salvation is by faith alone and yet still say that this faith is never without repentence. In Christ, Beja |
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264 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226829 | ||
Lionstrong, You make some rather authoritive sounding statements here. I can not help but to wonder what dictionary or source you ground your confidence in? As I look at "A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" third edition, also more commonly known as BDAG I see a variety of five definitions to the word pisteuo. The overwhelming majority of New Testament instances are judged by them to be within the first three possibilities and I shall reproduce them here for you. 1. To consider something to be true and therefore worthy of one's trust, believe. 2. To entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, blieve (in) trust. 3. Entrust Do you see how in each of these they involve not only mental accent but they also involve trusting in something? Now perhaps EdB put a little extra flourish on how he described it, but what he was drawing out is this element of trust that is involved in the word. B.B. Warfield has an article in his book on theology that traces the scriptural notion through its Hebrew predecessors and on into the greek so that its idea can be traced throughout scripture and, while I admitedly have only found time to skim the discussion, it did draw out this idea of trust that is tied up to the verb. At the end it seems to be not just what you hold to be true, but what is it that you are placing your confidence in for that coming day of judgement. So I just wonder what source leads you to the conclusion that, "To believe means to mentallcy accent to an understood statement. It is to agree, to accept that a proposition, a message, a statement is true. It's as simple as that..." Keep in mind we are speaking of the greek word pisteuo and not our english word "believe." Now, with regard to "easy believism." This is truely an abhorrent doctrine, but I would have you understand what it is about. Easy Believism is not a derrogitory term that people throw at the doctrine of Justification by faith alone. I wholey believe we are saved by faith alone without works based on the merits of the finished word of Christ. However, I deny that faith will ever be alone, but faith comes hand in hand with repentence and other graces from God, though admitedly faith being the one of them which unites us to the death, burial, and ressurection of our Lord. This then is the heart of easy believism, the teaching that faith may dwell in a heart that is devoid of all other graces, most significantly repentence. And we should know that this is not true when we have a passage such as James chapter two, beggining with verse 14. Jas 2:14-17 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. Linger on this passage with me and let me make some observations. 1. He asks a pointed question about a faith which is not accompanied by works. "Can that faith save him?" A very direct question! 2. His answer is to compare that faith with somebody who simply verbally blesses a man who is hungry and without clothing, and he asks, what good is that? His point being that it is no good whatsoever. 3. He concludes that in the same way, the faith without works is dead. In other words, James says that such a faith indeed can not save them. Now the point is not that a man is saved by these works, but rather that a saving faith will never be found apart from other graces such as repentence unto a changed life. A chief aspect of that changed life being love. So let us throw in our lot with scripture and reject this notion of "easy believism." I do not say that we ever reject a simple trust in Christ as the source of salvation, but rather let us reject the notion that this simple faith will ever be found alone in a believer. Because when we believe, we receive the spirit, and those who have the spirit will indeed be changed from one glory to another. To quote our beloved John, whom you as well as I seem to be fond of, "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9 ESV. In Christ, Beja |
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265 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226843 | ||
Lionstrong, "Unless you're saying that the Bible teaches that we are saved by believing and good works" I'm not. Merely that saving faith will be accompanied by good works, which play no part in meriting our salvation but they go towards evidencing the reality of the salvation God has already worked in us. "We can never know if we have 'complete confidence'" I think we can have complete confidence, this is the doctrine of assurance. "the Lord does not require complete confidence." Amen. I'll say amen at least within the context of our discussion. I affirm that assurance of salvation and salvation are two different things. "The gift of believing, even if it is the size of a mustard seed is sufficient for salvation" Amen again. It is not dependent on the greatness of our faith but the object of our faith, Jesus Christ. "We should not be content with a little faith, however. We should continually grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus." Amen and amen! The heart of my post is what you state you are willing to accept: that scriptural faith involves trust upon the work of Christ and not merely acceptance of the doctrines of the work of Christ. The rest of my post was merely to inform you that "easy believism" is actually something else which I doubt you mean to ascribe to and not an insult thrown at the great pillar of "Faith Alone." In Christ, Beja |
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266 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226846 | ||
Lionstrong, First, let me be clear that I am not suggesting that you are not trusting Christ. So I'm going to proceed as if that is more of a universal question in scope, more along the lines of "how would one not be trusting Christ. This is the question which drives home the point, I hope. On the day in which we shall all stand before God to receive eternal rewards or eternal punishments, what is it that you are trusting is going to cause God to receive you favorably on that day? Now I readily grant that this is a fine line. If somebody truely understands the teachings of Christ rightly then the logical implication is to trust the substitionary work of Christ for our acceptance. But rest assured, every man who has hopes of heaven hopes for heaven based on some grounds. Whatever these grounds are is what the man is trusting in, or placing his faith in. That is the thing the man is "believing in" in terms of how the new testament speaks. But trusting and mentally assenting to these things ought to all go together. In Christ, Beja |
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267 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226849 | ||
DD4Truth, You said, "This would indicate that we are saved at belief but would still perish without repentance." Not at all. Repentance is the work of God. This is a very poor understanding of what it means to be saved. It speaks as if salvation includes only our forgiveness. On the contrary, what was purchased for us at the cross is not merely justification, but Christ also purchased for us our sanctification. Ezekial describes the salvation of God quite different. Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. God does not merely sprinkle us with clear water, he puts a new heart in us and gives us his spirit such that we will be caused to obey his rules. This involves repentence. Further we see what Christ purchased in the new covenant in Hebews 8 involves not just forgiveness, but that God (not us) will right his words on our hearts. I believe this is referring to the same thing Ezekiel was referring to. Again we see in 1 John. 1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. So we see obedience flowing from salvation, indeed part of that salvation. Again in Romans in Chapters 6-8 Paul goes through a lengthy discussion why justification by faith alone does not lead to the freedom to sin. And his answer is that we can not go on sinning because of our ongoing union with Jesus Christ through the spirit. And such is the testimony of scripture. We are not saved then to see whether or not we will repent, nor do we repent to earn our salvation. Rather, our new found obedience and repentence is part of the salvation that God has worked upon us and we should never speak as if that salvation will be found seperate from repentence. And so we rightly say that our being united to all the blessing of Christ, both the justification and the spirit led obedience comes from faith alone. Php 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, We are saved by faith alone, but faith is never alone. Repentence is part of the salvation which was worked upon us. If we have no repentence, that salvation a man might claim is not the salvation that scripture describes. In Christ, Beja |
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268 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226850 | ||
Lionstrong, I'll try to say that in different ways. What are you banking on to cause you to be spared in the day of judgement? What are you relying on? Hoping upon? Counting on? I do think there is a place for a weak faith. In other words, I would not cast doubt upon the faith of a man that said to me, "I do not know with certainty my fate, but my only hope for acceptance is in Christ Jesus." I would try to use the promises of scripture to move the man from such a small faith unto a firm assurance of his stake in Christ, but I do not require certain assurance. I require our hope to be exclusively in Christ Jesus and his attoning work, I do not requre that trust to be mighty enough to banish all fearful thoughts. "Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the cross I cling." Let that be our hope for the day of judgement and we will do well. So in other words, I do not mean complete assurance by the word "trust." I simply mean that we understand the doctrines of the work of Christ for the proper purpose. We believe the attoning work of Christ, and we through faith take it as our hope for that fearful day of judgement. That I believe is faith. I hope some part of this helped to clarify. In Christ, Beja |
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269 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226854 | ||
DD4Truth, I was very much considering not responding at all when I read your post due to the sheer number of things you have gotten wrong. I know of no other way to say it. However, for the many reading this post I intend to take the time to respond to your many mistakes. This might take more than one reply. 1. First it is ironic that you bring up Abraham, since that is Paul's mighty proof for salvation by faith alone in Romans Chapter 4. Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; Rom 4:11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, First he states from Genesis God's declaration upon Abraham that he was righteous. Paul then asks the pivotal question, "How then was it credited?" In other words was he declared righteous while he was circumcised or prior to the obedience of circumcision? As we look at the biblical account Paul notes that it was prior to Abraham's obedience of circumcision. Paul states that the circumcision was the display of the righteousness which Abraham already had, which was granted by faith alone. Read the first 8 verses of Romans 4 to confirm this. 2. You completely miss scriptures intent when you say that Christ taught the law must be kept to merit eternal life. But also importantly you mishandle scripture. You take a parable which does not make clear intent to teach this particular doctrine and you use that parable to override clear teaching of scripture elsewhere. Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Now affirmed by all who have any sense is the truth that we take the clear teachings of scripture and use them to help us understand the unclear teachings of scripture. So your first fault is your hermeneutics. You then show missunderstanding of what I profess. I deny that any man will see God without holiness, or sanctification. Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. I believe entirely that obedience is a crucial part of our salvation. The question is does our obedience merit our salvation or does our salvation prompt our obedience? The testimony of scripture is that our obedience flows from God, it is not our obedience that brings us to God or rather it is not our obedience which lays hold of what Christ has purchased us. I consider previous verses cited such as 1 John 3:9 to be sufficient for this. I would add to the list Ephesians 2:8-10 which says that we are saved by grace by faith unto good works, or rather for good works, NOT because of good works by means of good works. 3. You missunderstand what Christ accomplished in freeing us from the law. Christ did not change what was right and wrong. Christ freed us from the condemnation of the law, not the morality of the law. Let me defend that with a passage. 1Ti 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 1Ti 1:10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 1Ti 1:11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. Now, here Paul makes mention of a wrong use of the law, and a rightful use of the law. What is the rightful use of the law? He quite clearly states that the right use of the law is the restraining of all these various things. But how does he identify these things? He states these things plus "whatever is contrary to sound teaching according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God". Do you hear this? The right application of the old testament law is for restraining things that are CONTRARY to the GOSPEL. So when I use the law to restrain wickedness in a professing Christian, that is precisely what is the right way to use it. And in addition, Paul sets the law as the valid standard of things which we know are contrary to the gospel. So you err when you state that we are not under the morality of the law, but rather obedience to whatever commands happen to be given by Christ during his ministry. On the contrary, any violation of God's moral law revealed in the Old Testament is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I will continue in a second post. |
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270 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226855 | ||
DD4Truth, Post two, please read post one first. 4. You missunderstand what is being said in Heb 3:18-19. Yes we see a wondrous interplay between faith and obedience in Heb 3. We are reminded that the two are remarkably interconnected. But you miss the connection! Heb 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? Heb 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief. He refers here, of course, to the Hebrew people in the desert. Search out for me now in the Old testament where God makes this statment. Heb 3:11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'" Now rightly the writer of Hebrews is quoting Psalm 95, but where does the quote originate in the wilderness wonderings? You will find no direct quote. David is putting the judgements recorded in Numbers 14 into his own words here. And what is the context of numbers 14? God has told his people to go in and take the land for He would give it into their hand. The spied returned and counseled disobedience to the people. The told them to not go in for the inhabitants were too strong. Why did they counsel this? Because they did not believe the word of God when He told them that He would give it to them. So we see here their disobedience found its root in unbelief. This is exactly the writers of Hebrews' point! Which is why his warning to them was against unbelief! Heb 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. Now it is very true that our unbelief often expresses itself in disobedience, but the writer of Hebrews shows clearly that this disobedience finds its ugly root in unbelief This being the cheif enemy. 5. You state "just because God gives us something as a gift does not mean that He can not require something of us to receive the gift." Of course this is true. Though that is the question, is it faith, or is it faith and obedience? And whicheve it is, does it find its root ultimately in us or in God? 6. You quote 2 Thess 1:8. I presume you mean to focus on the phrase "those who do not obey the gospel." Indeed, the gospel contains a command to repent. There is no salvation without repentence. But the gospel also contains a command to believe. Neither one finds its ultimate source in us, but both are gifts of God. Who opens are eyes to the glory of God in the face of Christ? 2Co 4:6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Who gives repentence? Act 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." 7. You quote Jesus in his statements of those who do and do not do his words. I say to them, amen! Again, there is no salvation without sanctification, but blessed is he who is counted righteous apart from works! Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: And blessed is that soul that as a result of the new covenant in Christ's blood experiences what Ezekiel described. Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. Blessed is that precious soul who does not receive salvation by works, but rather receives his works by salvation! There is more, but I will let it rest there. In Christ, Beja |
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271 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226878 | ||
DD4Truth, Again, you string so many verses together pulled out of all theological context that it would take me hours and once again multiple posts to correct each of them. I wash my hands of this and will only conclude by saying three things. First, that you and I do not disagree on a minor point, but you preach an entirely different gospel. Second, you stand outside of historical orthodox Christianity. And finally, I pray ( and I mean this seriously, I am praying to this end) that no reader will fall into your doctrine and thereby be condemned. Php 3:8,9 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Sola fide, Beja |
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272 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226894 | ||
John, I have folders where I drop things on certain topics for the purpose of future edification of either myself or others. That was so well said I am cutting and paisting it. In Christ, Beja |
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273 | What is predetermination all about | John 3:16 | Beja | 241893 | ||
EdB, I agree with you that that is the spectrum. But to be fair, I have never met a person who would say that "what we do does not effect our eternal destiny." I just don't want the original poster to think that those who disagree with your position would then necessarily think our actions don't matter. Those who believe in God electing individuals to salvation do historically hold that our actions matter and have impact on our eternal destiny. Specifically that we must repent and have faith in Christ to be saved, but more than this as well. Only an extremely small percentage of calvinists have ever held that our actions do not matter. And these are what we call hypercalvinists, there is a huge difference between the two. You may find this position to be inconsistent, I do not find it inconsistent, but even if you deem it to be inconsistent then we must be careful to portray those we disagree with accurately. Then we can proceed to say they are inconsistent. It would be dishonest to smooth out their theology into what we think the implications ought to be and then accuse them of holding teachings which they deny. Specifically, if we think the implications of their theology imply that our actions do not matter, and yet they hold that our actions do matter, we must not accuse them of holding to our imagined implications. That being said, you did not err in your statements. I just want to make sure readers understood that 99 percent of those who hold to election are not on that far end of your spectrum. In Christ, Beja |
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274 | SHOULD I TAKE THE LORDS SUPPER WITH UNCO | John 4:24 | Beja | 225774 | ||
jje, I'm glad that you benefited from Ephesians. This question seems to be quite sweeping in its scope. On one level I can answer it very simply. Our reverence towards God is extremely important. But I wish I could answer in a way that is more edifying. Since you were willing to dig into the word of God yourself once, then perhaps that will be the best way to go about it again. Try reading the Olt Testament book of Malachi. The book gives several instances in how they had in practical ways ceased to have a holy reverence for God. In this book God is rebuking them. Especially note how God responds to those who repent in the face of his rebuke in Malachi 3:16,17. Perhaps there are others on the forum that can point you to some other great passages. Or perhaps I'll think of more when I'm not responding at 2:30 in the morning. God bless you in your studies. In Christ, Beja |
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275 | SHOULD I TAKE THE LORDS SUPPER WITH UNCO | John 4:24 | Beja | 225795 | ||
Lionheart, Hebrews is a precious book indeed. I chose Malachi however because it gives us God's reaction to the people no longer having a reverent fear of Him, which was what it seemed his question was about. And I do believe the Old Testament is meant for us, even if the rituals of the Old Testament are not meant for us to practice. Rom 15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Though I could not begin to argue against somebody going to Hebrews! It is definitely as good as you suggest. In Christ, Beja |
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276 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232571 | ||
EdB, I would suggest that scripture addresses specificly that question in Romans chapter 1:18-32. In Christ, Beja |
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277 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232583 | ||
EdB, I would recommend reading the passage again. The passage is not about atheists. The people in the passage are indeed worshiping. I won't go deeper than that as I disagree with you on the very assumptions you are bringing to the discussion. I only wish to affirm that scripture does deal with the issue for those readers who wish to look into it. In Christ, Beja |
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278 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232587 | ||
EdB, I can't come up with a reply befitting of Christ, therefore I will remain silent. Only note that I have not simply referenced verse 18 but rather I pointed you to the entirety of Romans 1:18-32. In Christ, Beja |
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279 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232588 | ||
EdB, Here is a conclusion Paul draws from what he has previously argued in Romans 1:18-32 Rom 2:2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. Based on Romans 2:2 would you still argue that we see nothing regarding God's standard of judgement on these people from this section of Romans? In Christ, Beja |
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280 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232596 | ||
EdB, RESPONSE PART 1 I'm the one at fault. Yesterday I drove a two hour round trip to take a 3.5-4 hour exam. My responses to you were shortly after I had returned home and apparently all of my patience was spent. I did not actually feel angry in every way. But every time I had finished writing a reply I couldn't help but notice that my exhausation was evident in my tone no matter how much I didn't intend for it to be. I finally decided it best that I didn't reply. So I am the one who has need to apologize, and I do. Let me say what I think the root of your error is, and perhaps that will explain why I don't have much desire to entire a large discussion concerning this. Your root mistake is that you think people will be judged only on accepting or receiving Christ. This is an error. Those who are judged to eternal condemnation will be judged for their sins. Romans 3:23 says that the wages of sin is death. Paul does not present this as something that has pased away with the work of Christ. It is present tense. Both before and after Christ we are judged for our sins. 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. It is my theory that because you reject this notion before you ever come to Romans 1:18-32 therefore you can not read it for what it plainly says. Because its plain sense goes against your previous notions. The reason I do not wish to get into a debate over this question is because we have done so once before on this forum if I am not mistaken. There is no merit to hashing it out all over again. I'm writing my exposition of Romans 1 and its relevence in a following post, it made this one too long. In Christ, Beja |
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