Results 481 - 495 of 495
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Results from: Notes Author: Aixen7z4 Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
481 | How do we know that we are truly saved? | 1 John 3:24 | Aixen7z4 | 145434 | ||
I am almost certain that I understand your point. A life of sin after salvation is an anomaly, and those who lead it should be worried. They should ask themselves whether they are really saved. In fact, we would all do well to ask ourselves that. But having asked the question, and having examined ourselves, we should know without question whether or not we are saved. One might well say that we should not rest until we have a clear answer. If we are not saved, we should fly to the Lord immediately and receive his grace. But once we have received his salvation, we should go on from there, or in it, with confidence. The confidence that we have is not in ourselves but in God, and in our Lord Jesus Christ. To say that I am saved is to say that Jesus has saved me. To say that I will never be lost is to say that Jesus will keep me. I know that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. Then do not throw away your confidence, which has great reward. Those who live a life of sin cannot be confident in their salvation. Scripture is rather rough on them. Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and we walk in darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth. It is clear that we can lie to ourselves. For example, he that says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now. But the New Testament letters, written to Christians, tell us that a saved person does not automatically do right. He may need correction. He needs information, even about himself, before he can respond. When he knows who he is (and again, he needs to be made aware) he may respond to the challenge to live up to it. Salvation is cast in various terms: Forgiveness of sins. Escape from eternal punishment. Reconciliation to God. Repentance. Faith. Passage from death to life. A new nature. A new believer may be aware of one of these and not the others. Again, we need to be taught, and the New Testament letters teach us. We are not only forgiven, we are dead to sin. We have not only escaped the dominion of Satan, we have become sons of God. We are no longer slaves to sin, we are servants of righteousness. Knowledge of these things will help us to live in the light of them. When we see the sad strange life of people professing to be saved and practicing sin, we may not know the reason for the incongruity. Perhaps they lack salvation. Perhaps they lack knowledge. Perhaps they lack the help they need. I would suggest that we offer them the Gospel, information about the nature of the child of God, assistance in making necessary changes, and see how they respond. Chances are that the person claiming to be saved will respond positively, in some cases showing a desire to be saved, in other cases responding to the challenge to be true to his Christlike nature. They may even show repentance and a readiness to accept help. If they reject all such overtures, they may leave us wondering if they are saved or even want to be. The question for me is: How do you get to those people? Likely, it is not by criticizing them or condemning them. More likely, it is by presenting the truth and the challenge. The question is one of practicality. Where do you meet these people? And how do you get to talk to them? Neither the structure of the church nor its meetings, nor the ecclesiastical media, nor the mass media, seems to allow it. So I am left with a quandary. It is clear to me that we need to get the Gospel to the people in church, to help them to clarify their relationship to God, and to challenge and assist them to live as children of God. But the means by which that can be done I do not have. It might be good for us to devote some effort to discovering or revealing those. |
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482 | disciple that Jesus loved | 1 John 4:10 | Aixen7z4 | 122018 | ||
This writer agrees. John does not quite say, "I am that disciple, which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things". But that is as close as he gets. Nor does he say that his name is John. It is a question that has always intrigued me, why many of the writers of scripture fail to identify themselves. Is there any internal evidence that John wrote the Gospel of John? I hope you do not think I am being facetious here. If you have such evidence, I would like to learn of it. Paul says that he always identifies himself (2 Thessalonians 3:17) and John certainly identifies himself as the writer of the book of Revelation. Rev 1:4 "John to the seven churches". Rev 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, ..., was in the isle that is called Patmos ...". Rev 22:8 "I John saw these things, and heard them". Why do you suppose he declines to identify himsel as John in the book called The Gospel of John? It seems to me that John 21:24 says it is the writer of the book who is known as "the disciple whom Jesus loved". It still does not say clearly that it was John. I hope you understand what I say here. We think it was John, but reading John 21:24 does not absolve us of culpability, if we are accused of intelligent guessing. |
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483 | How do we know that God is love? | 1 John 4:16 | Aixen7z4 | 127096 | ||
I found a ministry called No Greater Love and tried to understand what it is all about. The statement that "No Greater Love Ministries is a non-denominational mission organization focused on the task of, 'putting the Gospel in the hands of faithful men'" was interesting but, to me, unclear. I could not determine why they had chosen that name. It seems that many other groups are using that phrase in their names too, because of Jesus' statement in John 15:13. It seems that many of us are grappling with the fact and the extent of the love of God. We are not sure if the little word "So" in John 3:16 means "to this extent" or "in this way". It seems that words cannot tell it all. So great is his love. Paul speaks of "his great love wherewith he loved us" (Ephesians 2:4). The hymn writer says simply, “Great is the measure of our Father’s love”. But it is only John who uses the phrase: “God is love”. Moses spoke about the love the Lord had for the children of Israel. In Deuteronomy 7 he told them that God loved them. As for the reason, it almost seems to be what we cal circuitous reasoning. “The LORD set his love upon you (v.7) because … because the LORD loved you” (v.8). And God kept repeating and showing that he loved them (Deuteronomy 10:15; 32:8-14; Isaiah 41:8,9; 43:4; Jeremiah 31:3; Romans 11:28). He loved them because he loved them, and he did that in spite of what they did. And now I wonder if Moses was saying that God is love. God loved them because he loved them. He loved them “according to the good pleasure of his will” (as in Ephesians 1:5). God loves because he wants to love. He “worketh all things after the counsel of his own will ” (Ephesians 1:11). But I wonder if he is not also saying that God loves because he cannot help it. It is his nature to love. The problem with that reasoning is that God was choosing whom to love. He also has the ability to hate. “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Romans 9:13). And yes, I have heard the explanations of what that word “hate” means. I wonder what God meant by those words (Malachi 1:2,3). God blessed Jacob; but as for Esau, he “laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness”. Someone has noted that “through every period of the history of Jacob’s posterity, they could not deny that God had remarkably appeared on their behalf; but he had rendered the heritage of Esau’s descendants, by wars and various other means, barren and waste forever”. We cannot question God (Job 33:13, Romans 9:20, etc.). But he invites us to understand him (Jeremiah 9:24). And he is love. We should try to understand that. |
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484 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | Aixen7z4 | 98734 | ||
I should have known that the response would have come quickly, before anyone would have had had a chance to ponder for a while the post to which he was responding. There is no indication that you even read the first passage quoted, even in your favorite version of the Bible. It seems you think that your eternal destiny rests on the fact you have discovered that most perfect version. Is that not worth thinking of, for a moment? What if you had lived in the time of Abraham when there was no written word? What if you were illiterate or less intelligent now and did not know which version was the best? We must be careful of bibliolotry and worship only the God of the Bible. I am happy these days to see someone simply reading the Gospel of John. If they never knew any more than that, they could have eternal life (John 3:16; John 20:31). If they obeyed the one commandment found there (John 13:34) I understand they would have kept the whole law (Romans 13:9). And love, my friend, is all important. Without it, knowledge only puffeth up (1 Corinthians 8:1). And when one is puffed up, one does not think clearly. He starts to think that he is a teacher and that everyone else is here to learn from him. Nor does he go into all the world to teach those who so need to learn. He withdraws into the cocoon with those who see every comma and semicolon where he sees it. In the will of God we have many brethren in the faith. Let us listen to them all. In the will of God we have many Bible translations. Let us use them all. Let us read Matthew 23 in all the versions, if only to make sure it is not addressed to us. But all of the Bible is addressed to us. Let us read it all. If we do, then I think we will not fret if one statement is not made here when it appears elsewhere. Above all, my friend, I wish you peace and assurance of salvation. A man who found a scrap of scripture in the gutter came to trust the Lord and went out to lead others to him. Like the woman at the well, he did not have all of the Bible and did not know what was missing. He thought he was overflowing. And we have so much! Let us not try to fill up our own store; it is not possible. Let us rather give out what we have, the word of faith, to others. |
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485 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | Aixen7z4 | 98742 | ||
Brother Tim: It is so good to have your input. And I do agree. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2Pe 1:21). We believe that the original writers wrote exactly what God wanted them to write, every word. But we do not have those original writings. What if the copiers here and there inserted something that they knew were elsewhere clearly stated in the original writings. Are they then adding to the word of God? I was struck to see that the movie JESUS, which is supposed to be based entirely on the record Luke wrote, begins with a quotation of John 3:16. Were they therefore adding something? I think not. Likewise, it seems to me, some copiers felt moved (not to say inspired) to add a word here and there, or to leave out one, in the interest of getting the pure message across. I am not supporting what they did, not am I accusing them. I am saying that is what they did. I say their job is difficult, and they apparently thought they were more than mere mechanical copiers. They seemed to see themselves as a part of the process of transmitting the word of God. The case for the translators seems even clearer to me. For what is translation? Is it not using words in one language to convey the thought expressed in another? Word for word does not do it. Try translating one sentence to another language and back again. Now if the translators claim to be translators and not copiers, they admit they may make mistakes. They may seek to keep in line by keeping in mind not only the passage they are working on but also all of Scripture. I am afraid I fail to see what harm is done if Scripture is added to Scripture. So enough of that from me. I agree with your last statement also, that the more one knows, the better one is equipped to act. The question seems to me how to divide the time between equipping and urging action. Should I wait until I have an entire Bible to give before giving the Gospel of John? Should we wait till we have a perfect church before reaching out to bring others in? Should we focus on achieving a perfect translation of the Bible while so many are waiting to hear the first verse? Even if John did not write what they said he wrote, I still rejoice that others wrote it. And now, it is time to propagate it. The fact that Paul plagiarizes Moses does not bother me, even if he fails to give credit. I thank God there is nothing contrary to the Bible in the Bible. It seems God did not give us any perfect translations; he gave us many translations so we can use them all and give the world the message. He did not give us any complete rendering of the life of Christ; he gave us four, and it seems he wants us to use them all and believe and preach the message. The fact that Luke says something because Matthew said it does not bother me. In fact, it reassures me as I give out the message. The big point seems to me to focus on the big picture, on the message of the entire Bible, rather than to focus on a few words here and there. If I understand the message, then I think I should give it, even if I use a hodgepodge from the various holy writers. The Holy Spirit seems to bring them all together to give one message to the hearer. This I say: The time is short. It remains therefore that we concentrate on giving out what we have received, not on making it literally perfect. |
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486 | put 1Jn 5:7 BACK where it belongs! | 1 John 5:7 | Aixen7z4 | 98796 | ||
I am glad you said that, Brother Tim, because it gives us a chance again to look at the most important point. I did not mean to say that the text need not be literally perfect. I do not know if it can be. I am not even sure what "it" is, since we have several translations, and there are variations among the oldest copies. I think the originals were perfect and the copies and translations are not. Nevertheless, I think they have remained faithful and that together they hold and transmit the word of God. My statement was meant to communicate a thought on how we should spend our time, not on whether or not the available texts are perfect. I was suggesting that we need not spend so much of our time on finding the perfect translation or on ensuring that one that is nearly perfect be made completely so. I was suggesting that we spend a greater portion of our time on obeying the word and giving out the Gospel. Now, aren't you glad that I who, am the author of that statement, am here to tell you what I meant? And so it is with the word of God, I think. It is the Holy Spirit who lives in us who tells us what he meant, the mind of God, so to speak. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. The best way I know to understand the word of God is to let him speak and for me to listen. (Try it by clicking on http://www.hishows.bizland.com/meditation.html). And I have learned, when I give out the word of God, that it speaks to people beyond my ability to explain it. It is alive and powerful. It is the power of God, etc. Isn’t it good to remember that the Holy Spirit knows the heart of the man we are talking to and can use the word in our mouth to reach them? But he also shows us how to apply it to our own lives. And is that not what the word is for? If we can live by it and preach the Gospel part of it, I think the whole purpose is fulfilled. The purpose of the revelation is obedience (Deuteronomy 29:29). I read the word of God is with a minimum of human commentary. But I do use cross-referencing quite extensively. I am so glad for the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge and other such tools that allow us to compare Scripture with Scripture. (Get it free at http://www.e-sword.net). In that way, when I am reading 1 John 5, even in a version where is no verse 7, I may read about the agreement among the Father, Son and Spirit, from some other passage. So it does not matter to me if someone added it there. |
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487 | How do we "contend for the faith"? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 96938 | ||
Please know that this writer did look for discussions of this verse before posting. He is aware of threads entitled "About the Forum" and "why I need to contend for faith?" The question here is how do we do it, and the suggestion is that we have to find another way, other than arguing. Speaking of traditions: I trust we can distinguish between the traditions we received from the world (Col 2:8;1Pe 1:18) and those we received from the apostles (2Th 3:6;2 Peter 3;2). These latter would actually constitute "the faith" that Jude is asking us to defend. |
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488 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117085 | ||
This discussion of creeds is interesting. We are doubtless aware that over the centuries many have been developed and they are still in the process of being refined, expanded, combined, etc. See http://www.creeds.net. I believe that these things have their uses, and they may be helpful in circumstances. The “Apostles Creed” has been widely accepted, but it is not certain to what extent it captures or summarizes all that we believe. What I was suggesting is that we search, to see what scriptural statements spell out our beliefs, as Peter’s did in John 6:69. In keeping with this idea, it has been suggested that some of the following scripture passages may have been used by the Lord’s people and repeated on certain occasions as statements of their beliefs. To the list I found I have added some of the ones that I think might also fit. I would like to look for more and make a list of all of them. Deut. 6:4: Hear O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD alone. 1 Kings. 18:39: "The LORD, he is God; the LORD, he is God." Matt. 16:16: "Christ (is) the Son of the living God." Matt. 28:19: (We are to) go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. John 1:49: (Jesus is) the Son of God! Jesus is the King of Israel! John 6:68-69: We have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God. Joh 11:27 Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John 16:30 We believe that Jesus came forth from God. John 20:28: (Jesus is) "My Lord and my God!" Acts 8:36-37: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God“. Acts 16:31: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 1 Cor. 8:6: For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Cor. 15:3-7: Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. 2Co 5:1 If our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Phil. 2:6-11: Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 1Th 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again, (and that) them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1 Tim. 3:16: Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. Hebr. 6:1-2: The foundation is: repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. 1Jo 3:2 Now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1Jo 5:20 The Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. |
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489 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117113 | ||
On the origin of the number 30000, see http://www.ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm Whatever the number, it is clear that division in the church has run amok. There is also variation within a denomination, however it is defined, and discernable changes within a single church on the basic way that they do things. One is led to ask, “Is there anything to stop these people from doing whatever they want?” Maybe there is. On my journey today I found myself saying, “Thank God for the Bible“ and asking, “What would we do without it?” Without the Bible, I fear there would be even greater division, and there would really be chaos. I am not sure if the people had the Torah when Judges 17:6 was happening, but it is apparent that the book of the law was lost once. Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it. And Shaphan read it before the king. And when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes “because”, he said, “our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written” (2 Kings 22). It is good that we have the book. And we all believe in the book. That there are so many differences in spite of the book is interesting because the book says there should be no schism in the body (1Corinthians 12:25). But again I would suggest that it is not up to us to say what we believe about the Bible, or what it is in the Bible that we believe. When we get saved we become a part of the church. It is the Bible, the prophets and the apostles, that should tell us what we believe. When we believe in Jesus, we believe in everything he says. This may seem a strange statement, but I hope we will give it some thought. |
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490 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117122 | ||
A great document! One can only imagine the amount of work that went into creating it and in obtaining agreement on the wording of it. This version is special because it includes those references. I counted 44 items and could only question two. One seems unnecessary (except perhaps for reasons of political correctness) and one is taken as a misconstruction of the reference. The rest seem to be solid Bible. One can understand why "The Nicean Creed is the most widely accepted and used brief statements of the Christian Faith". I understand that, it is said in liturgical churches every Sunday. "It is Common Ground to East Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists, and many other Christian groups. Many groups that do not have a tradition of using it in their services nevertheless are committed to the doctrines it teaches". It clearly serves a useful purpose in focusing on and clarifying many issues. |
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491 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117130 | ||
O, I don't know, kalos. Perheps you can tell why it was important to point out the role of Pontius Pilate. | ||||||
492 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117154 | ||
What can one say about a church's document? This one probably serves very well to let everyone know where they stand on key points of doctrine. I am especially happy to see item #6 which spells out the requirements for salvation, which are: repentance and faith. This seems to be missing in some of the prominent creeds. Some of us may not agree that there is healing in the atonement (#8). We may understand Isaiah to be referring to the sickness of the soul and think that James is calling for the elders respond to a call and to visit and pray for the sick in the home or hospital. Even there they should be careful to minister to the spiritual needs. I hope it is not a major point, or important enough to sidetrack this discussion. The other points are very well made and supported with scripture. Again, I do not know that it is the privilege of an outsider to critique a document of a local church. But the presentation seemed to invite comment and I trust one can be forgiven for trespassing. I am imagining that one who is considering joining that church needs to indicate agreement with the statements in it. I wonder if one can be a member of that church while holding reservations on any one of the points. As for the church universal, if you will, which is the body of Christ, it is my understanding that each of us becomes a member of it at the time that we get saved. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into that body. We would have repented of our sins and we would have placed our trust in Christ. We therefore believe all that he says, about himself, about us, about everything. It is probably true that we do not know or understand all that we believe. More and more is revealed to us as we read the word of God. But blessed is the person who can say now, "I know whom I have believed". |
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493 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117268 | ||
Hello Sir: I was very much impressed. What a labor of love! It is obvious that you took some time and care to help in that situation, and I am glad to see that it was appreciated. And what a high caliber of discussion, the entire thread! Now I am challenged to think again. Perhaps a statement of what we believe can be simple and straightforward so as to be understood in every culture. I am challenged to review my own statement, which I will repeat here. But before I do, I will wonder aloud: Is it really necessary for a person to know what the words “sanctification” and “redemption” mean, before they come to Christ? The intellects and vocabularies of those who took part in that discussion (in 2001) are impressive, but that did not seem to facilitate a breakthrough at the university. Also, some people are simple and uneducated and cannot understand these words. Truth be told there are so many who can barely read. Should not the statement of our faith be made in such words as would be meaningful to them? I will not take the time now to think and answer my own question. I can only hope that someone with the charity of a charis will have a chance to answer. What if he did not talk to the Japanese about redemption or reconciliation? What if he simply said the following: This is what we believe. And to this we are committed. 1. God gave us this life, and he is ruler over us. 2. There are two important things he asks of us: - to love him and obey him. - to love and help each other. 3. Since we have failed in both of these areas, he asks us to admit it, and to accept his forgiveness. 4. He can forgive us because Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and he rose again. 5. When we repent and trust in him, he gives us a new life, and with it, a new opportunity to do the tasks in #2. We have a large Bible, with many technical terms. It also has many examples and explanations, and we may be learning from these throughout our lives. But is there not a simple message that our God is giving to the world? He is full of patience and he will tell us to avoid killing and stealing and prejudice and hatred and lust, but what he wants to tell us simply, is to love (Romans 13:9). It is perhaps true that anyone in any culture can understand that if he is willing to listen (look around, ponder, meditate, ask questions). But the point was made in that discussion, that we should be ready to answer questions. We should recognize, perhaps, that questions are a sign that a person is interested. They also indicate where they are in their search and what their next step might be. We should be careful, perhaps, that our preaching is geared to provide answers to their questions. If they have no questions for us, it may indicate they are not ready to hear from us. (Maybe our lifestyle does not prompt the questions). The suggestion is that we should have a simple statement of the faith. We should be able to summarize the message of the Bible. Then, or in the process, we should obey the word which says to “sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear”. |
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494 | What do we believe? | Jude 1:3 | Aixen7z4 | 117279 | ||
My experience tells me you’re correct. Only a small percent of Christians read the Bible. Many say, “The Bible says” and do not know what it says exactly, or where. It is sad, and frustrating, to try to share with someone who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, and is not willing to listen. Sadder still is the issue of salvation. Pastors tell me that they think 60 to 80 percent of the people in church are unsaved. But what can we do about it? We should preach the Gospel, in the church, but for many reasons, we’re afraid or disinclined to do that. One must often fear to put forth scriptures, even in this place. One who has not taken the time to read your statement, mush less the scriptures, can come on to opine and to oppose. But I suppose that is the way it has been, as I remember Paul’s experience. Acts 18:5,6: “Paul devoted all his time to teaching the word of God. He assured the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah. But they opposed him and insulted him”. Come to think of it, they also opposed and insulted the Messiah. What percentage of the Christian church has ever read the entire Bible? A small one. A small one. He said, “Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?” (Mark 12:24). What percentage of the people are saved? A small one. There is no way to calculate, that I know of. The fact there are 4 different types of ground does not mean that each type gets an equal percentage. There are two ways, one narrow, one broad, and they are not equal in the numbers traveling them. The number of unsaved reading the Bible may be small because people who are not saved may not understand what they read. They may discontinue reading it, because they do not understand it (1 Corinthians 2:14). What can we do to change things? How can we encourage more people to be saved? To read the bible? To obey it? I was going to say that God knows, but I am thinking that not even God knows. What can he do, more than he has done? He has provided salvation, at tremendous cost. He has given us his Holy Spirit. He has given us his word. He has given us the privilege of sharing it. What more can he do? I believe it is incumbent on us to clarify in our own minds and clearly state what the Lord has given us to believe. We must not be satisfied to disagree. We must not be satisfied to believe what is right in our own eyes. We cannot repeat the error of doing what is right in our own eyes. We must think again, and read again before we speak. We must give a clear and unified message to the world. |
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495 | What's this about the Rapture? | Rev 4:1 | Aixen7z4 | 133434 | ||
Interesting. I take it that there is a Rapture, referred to in I Corinthians 15:51,52 and in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17. I take it that the church is in heaven in Revelation 4, not because John is there (Revelation 4:1) but because the twenty-four elders are there (vv. 4,8; Revelation 5:6,8). I understand that in Matthew 24 Jesus is talking about the Jews and not the church, and in Revelation 6 John is seeing the Jews and not the church. The tribulation is the time of Jacob’s trouble. Jews will go through the Great tribulation and out of it some 144,000 will be saved, but during all of this the church is in heaven. I imagine that the subject of the rapture has been discussed elsewhere, but it seems appropriate that the post above be answered here. Meanwhile, I will look for other discussions on this topic. |
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