Results 221 - 240 of 248
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: zach† Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
221 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34285 | ||
Lionstrong; In your post you stated: "this passage cannot be talking about a true believer" and you also stated; "The label attached to my theological persuasion is Reformed" While I personally don't claim to be of either the Reformed or Remonstrant persuasion , many will label me as being slanted toward one persuasion more than the other. However the label I prefer is Christian... a follower of Christ. Having said that, I will appeal to you from the words of a famous Reformed preacher and as to whether he thought those mentioned in Heb 6 were true Christian's even though he still maintained his "Eternal Security" position. Charles H.Spurgeon on Heb. 6:4-6 (Are those mentioned true and real Christian's) "We come to this passage (Hebrews 6:4-6) ourselves with the intention to read it with the simplicity of a child, and whatever we find therein to state it;and if It may not seem to agree with something we have hitherto held, we are prepared to cast away every doctrine of our own, rather than one passage of scripture." (Charles Haddon Spurgeon) "A child reading this passage, would say, that the persons intended by it must be Christians. If the Holy Spirit intended to describe Christians, I do not see that he could have used more explicit terms than there are here. How can a man be said to be enlightened, and to taste of the heavenly gift, and to be made partaker of the Holy Ghost, without being a child of I think that I shall be able to show that none but true believers are here described. First, they are spoken of as having been once enlightened, This refers to the enlightening influence of God's Spirit .... I cannot consider a man truly enlightened unless he is a child of God. The next thing that God grants to us is a taste of the heavenly gift, by which we understand, the heavenly gift of salvation. We cannot think that the Holy Spirit would describe an unregenerate man as having been enlightened, and as having tasted of the heavenly gift, No, my brethren, If I have tasted of the heavenly gift, I am one of his. No man can be a partaker of the Holy Ghost, and yet be unregenerate. Further..... they have tasted the good word of God .... I say again, if these people be not believers-who are? They had received the powers of the world to come.... powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian. These, we say, whatever may be the meaning of the text, must have been, beyond a doubt, none other than true and real Christians" (Charles Haddon Spurgeon) God richly bless you as you daily spend time with Him in His word In Christ zach† |
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222 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34286 | ||
CDBJ; Just thought I would pass along this note concerning the word "if" in Heb. 6:6 there is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word “if” in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – “and they have fallen away” (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction “kai” usually means “and” has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying “they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away” (A.T. Robertson) In Christ zach† |
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223 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34288 | ||
The following is a testimony of former-Senator, and pro basketball player Bill Bradley. "I've made my choice," wrote the young basketball star. "I love Jesus Christ and I try to serve Him to the best of my ability. How about you?" It may surprise you to learn the tract was written 30 years ago by former Senator Bill Bradley. Bradley has since renounced his Christian beliefs,and his actions are a warning of the perils of political expediency--and of not holding our fellow believers accountable. The pamphlet, titled "I've Made My Choice," was published in the 1960s by the American Tract Society when Bradley was a rookie with the New York Knicks. In it, Bradley recounts how he accepted Christ while a student at Princeton. "I knew I had been giving my life to the wrong goals," he wrote. "I knew then that I wanted to give my life to Jesus Christ and His service." Not anymore, it appears. In his 1996 memoirs, Bradley says he was put off by the exclusive truth claims of fundamentalist Christianity. He was also bothered by the uncharitable attitudes and racism displayed by some Christians. Bradley now disavows his Christian beliefs and,according to "Investor's Business Daily," says he "now embraces all religions" from Buddhism to Islam, so long as they seek "inner peace." These are chilling words from a man who was once very active in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. It appears that he has either renounced his faith entirely--or he decided, for political reasons, to renounce it publicly. Bradley's story is a cautionary tale, not just for Christians who go into politics, but for all of us. Here was a man who was converting others to Christ, and somewhere along the line, he got off the rails. It's a warning that we need to constantly keep ourselves fresh in the faith, to attend discipleship classes, and to hold one another accountable. As for Bradley, I hope and pray he will to reconsider the words that he himself wrote in that long-ago tract: "The choice is simple. It is between the eternal and the passing, between the strong and the weak . . . between Jesus Christ and the world." In Christ zach† |
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224 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34289 | ||
Brother Tim; How do you think the following scripture might be applied to the repentance issue you addressed? Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he (Esau) would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. In Christ zach† |
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225 | what does Hebrews 6v4-6 mean? | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34290 | ||
Nolan; There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that “this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible.” Their reasoning comes from Paul’s statement “But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you.” They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for “you” not “them” |
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226 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34312 | ||
Tim; to insert the cross after your name do the following 1) Engage Num Lock key 2) While holding down the ALT key on your keyboard, type 0134 from your Number pad and let off your alt key, and † you have a cross. Thank you for your quick response concerning Heb. 12:17, I was wondering whether the birthright in that text could be carried over in the New Testament to a Christian's birthright? I haven't went into a detailed study of that text yet, but will in the future, once I can find the time In Christ zach_† |
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227 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34314 | ||
Joel; In spite of all those statements concerning Heb. 6:4-6 from Spurgeon, he still finally maintained his firm position with the Calvinist's 5th point of TULIP. That being Perseverance of the Saints I cannot help to think that he seemed to be straddling the fence on the issue, as he seems to on many other topics in my reading of him. In Christ zach† |
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228 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34325 | ||
Norrie; Thanks for that reply; To add to what you have already stated let me add the following; Paul wrote about some who "made ship-wreck of their faith" (1 Tim. 1:19,20) unlike many in our day Paul did not say of these who shipwrecked their faith, they were never really saved to begin with. In Christ zach† |
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229 | what does Hebrews 6v4-6 mean? | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34486 | ||
Makarios † Greetings I am a new comer to this forum and came across your post on Heb 6:4-6 and felt compelled to post a comment concerning "The hypothetical spiritual experiences" that were mentioned in the commentaries you posted. So I hope I wasn't being too rude butting in here to add a commentary on the subject. I just feel that when other new-comers eventually join this forum, they too will want to do a study on this subject from all viewpoints to be able to sort out their own thoughts on this difficult text. In Christ zach† |
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230 | Halting short of faith in Christ. | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 35311 | ||
Just looked in Strongs Greek for the word "partaker" Here is what is found: 3353 metochos (met'-okh-os) from 3348; TDNT - 2:830,286; adj AV - partaker 4, partner 1, fellow 1; 6 1) sharing in, partaking 2) a partner (in a work, office, dignity) Shalom zach_† |
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231 | Partakers of the Holy Spirit? | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34761 | ||
K; concerning Heb. 6:4-6 you stated; "this is a hypothetical situation." So I will comment as follows: there is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word “if” in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – “and they have fallen away” (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction “kai” usually means “and” has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying “they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away” (A.T. Robertson) The NEB translates the phrase, “and after all this” There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that “this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible.” Their reasoning comes from Paul’s statement “But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you.” They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for “you” not “them” In Christ zach† |
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232 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34762 | ||
Lifer; I found these comments from Calvinist Charles Spurgeon concerning who these are that are mentioned in Heb. 6:4-6. Spurgeon on Heb. 6:4-6 (Those mentioned in Heb. 6:4-6 are true and real Christian's) "We come to this passage (Hebrews 6:4-6) ourselves with the intention to read it with the simplicity of a child, and whatever we find therein to state it; and if It may not seem to agree with something we have hitherto held, we are prepared to cast away every doctrine of our own, rather than one passage of scripture." (Charles Haddon Spurgeon) "a child reading this passage, would say, that the persons intended by it must be Christians. If the Holy Spirit intended to describe Christians, I do not see that he could have used more explicit terms than there are here." "How can a man be said to be enlightened, and to taste of the heavenly gift, and to be made partaker of the Holy Ghost, without being a child of God?" "I think that I shall be able to show that none but true believers are here described." "First, they are spoken of as having been once enlightened, This refers to the enlightening influence of God's Spirit .... I cannot consider a man truly enlightened unless he is a child of God." "the next thing that God grants to us is a taste of the heavenly gift, by which we understand, the heavenly gift of salvation." "we cannot think that the Holy Spirit would describe an unregenerate man as having been enlightened, and as having tasted of the heavenly gift, No, my brethren, If I have tasted of the heavenly gift, I am one of his." "no man can be a partaker of the Holy Ghost, and yet be unregenerate." 'further..... they have tasted the good word of God .... I say again, if these people be not believers-who are?" "They had received the powers of the world to come.... powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian." "These, we say, whatever may be the meaning of the text, must have been, beyond a doubt, none other than true and real Christians" (all the4 above quote taken from Spurgeon. After having said all that Spurgeon still maintained his Calvinist position of "Perseverance of the Saints" How he could I don't know, seems amazing that he still could. Must have been something in those cigars he smoked In Christ zach† |
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233 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34827 | ||
Joe; I will try to relocate the entire message from which I collected these quoutes, and once I find them, I will attach them here zach† |
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234 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34925 | ||
Hank and Joe also; Part 1 In my previous comments concerning quotes of Spurgeon, I didn't at that time go into lengthy detail, but now feel the need to at this time. The name of the message which I obtained my previous Spurgeon quotes from and the site where the mesage can be found is be included. Following are portions of Spurgeons message entitled Final Perseverance, and some of my thoughts concerning statements made by Mr. Spurgeon. I'm sure you won't all agree with my comments, especially if you are of the Reformed faith, but nevertheless, I also believe whatever conclusions each of us draw on this message, we can still all agree we all are His. I will add Spurgeons name to quotes gleaned from his message, and add my name to comments to portion of his messsage. This will have to be sent in several parts to this forum. Hope you find the time to read the entire reply. Final Perseverance A Sermon (No. 75) Delivered on Sabbath Morning, March 23, 1856, by the REV. C.H. SPURGEON http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0075.htm "We come to this passage ourselves with the intention to read it with the simplicity of a child, and whatever we find therein to state it; and if it may not seem to agree with something we have hitherto held, we are prepared to cast away every doctrine of our own, rather than one passage of Scripture." (Spurgeon) "First, then, we answer the question, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE HERE SPOKEN OF? If you read Dr. Gill, Dr. Owen, and almost all the eminent Calvinistic writers, they all of them assert that these persons are not Christians. They say, that enough is said here to represent a man who is a Christian externally, but not enough to give the portrait of a true believer. Now, it strikes me they would not have said this if they had had some doctrine to uphold; for a child, reading this passage, would say, that the persons intended by it must be Christians. If the Holy Spirit intended to describe Christians, I do not see that he could have used more explicit terms than there are here. How can a man be said to be enlightened, and to taste of the heavenly gift, and to be made partaker of the Holy Ghost, without being a child of God? With all deference to these learned doctors, and I admire and love them all, I humbly conceive that they allowed their judgments to be a little warped when they said that; and I think I shall be able to show that none but true believers are here described." (Spurgeon) . "First, they are spoken of as having been once enlightened. .. I cannot consider a man truly enlightened unless he is a child of God. Does not the term indicate a person taught of God? It is not the whole of Christian experience; but is it not a part." (Spurgeon) "Having enlightened us, as the text says, the next thing that God grants to us is a taste of the heavenly gift, by which we understand, the heavenly gift of salvation, including the pardon of sin, justification by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, regeneration by the Holy Ghost, and all those gifts and graces, which in the earlier dawn of spiritual life convey salvation. ...... we cannot think that the Holy Spirit would describe an unregenerate man as having been enlightened, and as having tasted of the heavenly gift. No, my brethren, if I have tasted of the heavenly gift, then that heavenly gift is mine; if I have had ever so short an experience of my Saviour's love, I am one of his; if he has brought me into the green pastures, and made me taste of the still waters and the tender grass, I need not fear as to whether I am really a child of God." (Spurgeon) "we do assert (and we think, on the authority of Scripture), that no man can be a partaker of the Holy Ghost, and yet be unregenerate. Where the Holy Ghost dwells there must be life; and if I have participation with the Holy Ghost, and fellowship with him, then I may rest assured that my salvation has been purchased by the blood of the Saviour. Thou need'st not fear, beloved; if thou has the Holy Ghost, thou hast that which ensures thy salvation; if thou, by an inward communion, canst participate in his Spirit, and if by a perpetual indwelling the Holy Ghost rests in thee, thou art not only a Christian, but thou hast arrived at some maturity in and by grace. Thou hast gone beyond mere enlightenment: thou hast passed from the bare taste—thou hast attained to a positive feast, and a partaking of the Holy Ghost." (Spurgeon) "the Apostle goes to a further stage of grace. They "have tasted the good word of God." I say again, if these people be not believers—who are?" (Spurgeon) "And they had gone further still. They had attained the summit of piety. They had received "the powers of the world to come." Not miraculous gifts, which are denied us in these days, but all those powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian. |
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235 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34927 | ||
Part 2 "And they had gone further still. They had attained the summit of piety. They had received "the powers of the world to come." Not miraculous gifts, which are denied us in these days, but all those powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian. These, we say, whatever may be the meaning of the text, must have been, beyond a doubt, none other than true and real Christians." (Spurgeon) "WHAT IS MEANT BY FALLING AWAY? there is a vast distinction between falling away and falling. Falling is not falling away. Let me explain the difference; If he fall, God will lift him up again; but if he fall away, God himself cannot save him. For it is impossible, if the righteous fall away, "to renew them again unto repentance." (Spurgeon) I agree with Spurgeon that there is a vast difference between falling and falling away. Even believers occassionaly fall into sin. Falling away is complete rennunciation of ones previous held faith. (zach†) "Moreover, to fall away is not to commit sin. under a temporary surprise and temptation. A Christian may go astray once, and speedily return again; and though it is a sad, and woeful, and evil thing to be surprised into a sin, yet there is a great difference between this and the sin which would be occasioned by a total falling away from grace." (Spurgeon) Personally I think to fall into sin is sin, but can be confessed and forgiven. To fall away is sin which will not be forgiven. It is what Spurgeon above called "total falling away from grace." (zach) I do believe that there are some Christians who, for a period of time, have wandered into sin, and yet have not positively fallen away. (Spurgeon) I agree with this above statement of Spurgeon's, however I would add that, I believe those who have "wandered into sin" are "grieving the Holy Spirit" with their sin (Eph 4:29) And are in danger of drifting away from the faith if they continue in persistant willful sin.(Heb. 10:26) (zach) "Again, falling away is not even a giving up of profession." (Spurgeon) I disagree with Spurgeon in the above quote. In Heb. 4:14 we are told "let us hold fast our profession." To not hold onto profession is to not hold onto faith. Of course there is a difference between mere professor's and possessor's but thats a topic for another time. (zach) "Simon. He had fallen, but he had not fallen away; " (Spurgeon) I agree with the above quote. (zach) "But some one says, "What is falling away?" Well, there never has been a case of it yet, and therefore I cannot describe it from observation; but I will tell you what I suppose it is. To fall away, would be for the Holy Spirit entirely to go out of a man—for his grace entirely to cease; not to lie dormant, but to cease to be—for God, who has begun a good work, to leave off doing it entirely—to take his hand completely and entirely away, and say, "There, man! I have half saved thee; now I will damn thee." That is what falling away is. It is not to sin temporarily. A child may sin against his father, and still be alive; but falling away is like cutting the child's head off clean. Not falling merely, for then our Father could pick us up, but being dashed down a precipice, where we are lost for ever. Falling away would involved God's grace changing its living nature. God's immutability becoming variable, God's faithfulness becoming changeable, and God, himself being undeified; for all these things falling away would necessitate." (Spurgeon) Spurgeon says there has never been a case of "falling away" yet. Well again I must disagree. He also says: "There, man! I have half saved thee; now I will damn thee." To that I add, God never half saves anyone. Rather it is man who only goes half way with God to actually obtaining final salvation, he stopped short. Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. God is not to blame neither is He at fall for the one who departs or falls away. Spurgeon also says: "Falling away would involved God's grace changing its living nature. God's immutability becoming variable, God's faithfulness becoming changeable." And we know from Scripture that God does not change. Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. It is man's attitude in neglecting so great salvation that has changed. Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; (zach) |
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236 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34928 | ||
Part 3 "But if a child of God could fall away, and grace could cease in a man's heart—now comes the third question—Paul says, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO BE RENEWED. What did the Apostle mean? One eminent commentator says, he meant that it would be very hard. It would be very hard, indeed, for a man who fell away, to be saved. But we reply, "My dear friend, it does not say anything about its being very hard; it says it is impossible, and we say that it would be utterly impossible, if such a case as is supposed were to happen; " (Spurgeon) In the above statement from Spurgeon he mentions that such cases of falling away as "supposed cases" and not actual. To that I disagree, believing their are actual cases. (zach) "God has cast them away; after he has failed in saving them by these, what else can deliver them? " (Spurgeon) God isn't the one who casts people away. People cast God away (zach) "And if already the Holy Spirit hath failed," (Spurgeon) The Holy Spirit doesn't fail. It is man that fails. (zach) "do we read that Christ will ever die for those who crucify him twice? But the Apostle tells us that if believers do fall away, they will "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Spurgeon) Scripture doesn't actually say exactly what Mr.Spurgeon says it says in the above quote. What it actually says is: "and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify TO THEMSELVES the Son of God, and put Him to open shame (NASB) I prefer the NASB for this verse because I see no justification in the Greek for the word "if" which is found in the KJV (Check it out for yourselves) It is to themselves, not others that they make the crucifixion void, and if they turn their backs on Christ and His offering of Himself then no other sacrifice can be offered, because the one time offering of the body of Christ is sufficient, and is a continual offering for both initial and final salvation for those endure unto the end. Perseverance involves endurance. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. --- and other like verses (zach) "What next? There must be a second incarnation, a second Calvary, a second Holy Ghost, a second regeneration, a second justification, although the first was finished and complete—in fact, I know not what. It would necessitate the upsetting of the whole kingdom of nature and grace, and it would, indeed, be a world turned upside down, if after the gracious Saviour failed, he were to attempt the work again." (Spurgeon) In the above quote Spurgeon talks as if a person falls away then the "Saviour failed" If a person fails that doesn't mean the Savior failed, the failure again rests on man not Christ Jesus. (zach) "So, my hearer, could it be possible that grace could work in thee, and then not affect thy salvation—that the influence of Divine grace could come down, like rain from heaven, and yet return unto God void, there could not be any hope for thee, for thou wouldst be "nigh unto cursing," and thine end would be "to be burned." (Spurgeon) No M. Spurgeon God's word WILL NOT return void. The offer will be extended to others. When the Jews rejected the Lord, God then turned his attention to the Gentiles. God's word will accomplish what it was sent to accomplish. The fullness of the Gentiles will come in and then God will again return His attention to the Israel (zach) "There is one idea which has occurred to us. It has struck us as a singular thing, that our friends should hold that men can be converted, made into new creatures, then fall away and be converted again. I am an old creature by nature; God creates me into a new thing, he makes me a new creature. I cannot go back into an old creature, for I cannot be uncreated. But yet, supposing that new creatureship of mine is not good enough to carry me to heaven. What is to come after that? Must there be something above a new creature—a new creature." (Spurgeon) I have listened many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die. Doctors do not admonish parents about the dangers of their child being "unborn" but rather about proper care of the child to keep it from dying. In fact if the baby is not fed it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53 (zach) |
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237 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34929 | ||
Part 4 "And one thought more. There is nothing in Scripture which teaches us that there is any salvation, save the one salvation of Jesus Christ—nothing that tells us of any other power, super-excellent and surpassing the power of the Holy Spirit. These things have already been tried on the man, and yet, according to the supposition, they have failed, for he has fallen away......: that if grace be ineffectual, if grace does not keep a man, then there is nothing left but that he must be damned. " (Spurgeon) If we fall from the faith, it doesn't reflect negatively upon God's faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness (zach) "If Christians can fall away, and cease to be Christians, they cannot be renewed again to repentance. "But," says one, "You say they cannot fall away." What is the use of putting this "if" in, like a bugbear to frighten children, or like a ghost that can have no existence? My learned friend, "Who art thou that repliest against God?" If God has put it in, he has put it in for wise reasons and for excellent purposes. Let me show you why. First, O Christian, it is put in to keep thee from falling away. God preserves his children from falling away; but he keeps them by the use of means; and one of these is, the terrors of the law, showing them what would happen if they were to fall away. There is a deep precipice: what is the best way to keep any one from going down there? Why, to tell him that if he did he would inevitably be dashed to pieces. ." It leads the believer to greater dependence on God, to a holy fear and caution, because he knows that if he were to fall away he could not be renewed, and he stands far away from that great gulf, because he know that if he were to fall into it there would be no salvation for him. " (Spurgeon) There is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word "if" in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – "and they have fallen away" (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction "kai" usually means "and" has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying "they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away" (A.T. Robertson) The NEB translates the phrase, "and after all this" There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that "this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible." Their reasoning comes from Paul's statement "But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you." They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for "you" not "them" (from zach) If I thought as the Arminian thinks, that I might fall away, and then return again, I should pretty often fall away, for sinful flesh and blood would think it very nice to fall away, and be a sinner, and go and see the play at the theatre, or get drunk, and then come back to the Church, and be received again as a dear brother who had fallen away for a little while. (Spurgeon) Well I don't know in full what an Arminian thinks, I can only say that I personally don't think the way Spurgeon describes above. If you fall away, thats it in my understanding of Scripture, you trampled underfoot Christ and His grace and no other present, or future offer will ever be made available to such who fall away (zach) Take care, then Christian, for this is a caution. (Spurgeon) I too believe it's a caution and much more. It is also a strong warning, and an actual possibility, not a hypothetical situation as some believe (zach) |
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238 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34930 | ||
Part 5 "Thank thy Lord, then, that he keeps thee." (Spurgeon) Why does Jude 21 warn us to "keep yourselves in the love of God" if the possibility of separation from God's love is impossible? (zach) "thou art being drawn to heaven by a single rope; if that hand which holds thee let thee go, if that rope which grasps thee do but break, thou art dashed on the rocks of damnation. Then, if that be the case, his hand must be severed from his body before my name can be taken from him; and if it be engraven on his heart, his heart must be rent out before they can rend my name out." (Spurgeon) Hold on, then, and trust believer! thou hast "an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, which entereth within the veil." The winds are bellowing, the tempests howling; should the cable slip, or thine anchor break, thou art lost. See those rocks, on which myriads are driving, and thou art wrecked there if grace leave thee; see those depths, in which the skeletons of sailors sleep, and thou art there, if that anchor fail thee. It would be impossible to moor thee again, if once that anchor broke; for other anchor there is none, other salvation there can be none, and if that one fail thee, it is impossible that thou ever shouldst be saved. Therefore thank God that thou hast an anchor that cannot fail, " (Spurgeon) After stating all that, why if what Mr. Spurgeon just stated is true, is there the need to as he says to: "Hold on, then, and trust " didn't he just say a couple of quotes ago : "Thank thy Lord, then, that he keeps thee." ? (zach) Bill Jones is fishing several miles out in the ocean. His boat capsizes and sinks to the bottom. He is unable to swim to safety. Just then another fishing boat comes along, but it is so heavily loaded that it is impossible to take on another passenger. Because they want to rescue the doomed man, however the crew throws him a rope. "Here take this rope," they say. "We will tow you to shore." As he takes the rope, Bill Jones says, "Thank God, I am saved!" And he is saved, as long as he holds on to the rope. Salvation is his, but he has to play a part in it. If he should at any time release his grasp on the rope and refuse to take it again, he would be lost. So it is with a person who has been rescued from sin. He remains saved as long as he holds on to the hand of Christ. If he should decide to release that hand, he would be lost. Actually one can properly speak of salvation in three tenses - past, present, and future. He can say, "I have been saved" when he takes the rope, "I am being saved" as he is being towed to shore; and "I shall be saved" when he plants his feet firmly on shore. Does the fact that the man must cling to the rope to be saved, mean that we can earn our salvation by our works? Absolutely not. Remember he was being towed by a power other than his own. He was merely co-operating with that power. He was holding onto the rope. He had to do that in order to be pulled to safety. We are still free moral agents. Our will has not been removed merely because we have become Christian's (from zach's files) Spurgeon is attributed as having said; "Calvinism is the gospel and nothing else" A statement like this from anyone clearly reveals to me, that this person has exalted the teachings of a man, above the absolute truth of God's word. I think what this person is saying is: whatever is in the Bible that doesn't fit into Calvinism is to be either thrown out, or re-explained to fit Calvinism. (from zach's files) Spurgeon would have done justice to his message from Hebrews if he would have also explained other verses in Hebrews concerning this topic. Verses such as: Heb. 2:1-3; 3:14; 4:1,6,12,14; 10:23,26-31,38; 12:14-15,25 (zach) |
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239 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34938 | ||
Joe; Sorry for the delay in replying to you. I posted a reply to Hank in 5 Parts which is actually a reply addressed to you also. I didn't send it to both of you because it is in 5 Parts. I hope you will look at all 5 parts. This will give you more of Spurgeons quotes from that message, plus my comments as to why I disagree with him. In Christ zach† |
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240 | faith without actions a fool? James 2:20 | James | zach† | 37714 | ||
Greetings lerno; Good works can never earn salvation, but they must accompany it Charles Spurgeon has said "Although we are sure that men are not saved for the sake of their works, yet we are equally sure that no man will be saved without them." Scripture says; “faith without works is dead.” James 2:20, and Paul himself Says: “Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Also we see from Matt. 7:21 that; only those which DO the will of the Father shall enter heaven. Also from Tit 3:8 we learn; “This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.” Also Jesus Himself said; “My brothers and my sisters are those that HEAR God’s word and PUT IT INTO PRACTICE.” Luke 8:21 NIV James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Faith produces good works and is the evidence of true saving faith in Christ Jesus, Grace and peace be multiplied unto thee zach† |
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