Results 41 - 60 of 118
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: jesusfreak508@aol.com Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58599 | ||
Paul was dealing with an outpouring of Spirit in Corinth. The Pharisee in him wanted to control it and subject it to rules. His 'God is not the author of confusion' comment sounds so wise and noble, and he is ever quick to pull out his authority as an Apostle. 'You should listen to me even when I am not speaking from the Lord because I am one the Lord has found trustworthy' (1Cor 7:25) The authority he quotes though is Temple Law. He says Tongues are for the unbelievers. (1Cor 14:20-22). A surprise for Peter and the other 120 with him (Acts 1:15)--men and women, on the day of Pentacost to learn. Acts 2:4 says "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." Who was the unbeliever locked up in that house among them? Paul saw himself as THE apostle though. I don't buy the Christian to Christian gentle rebuke motive for him in the Peter incident either. Not with comments like 1Cor 15:9,10 "For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle,.....But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them..." Catholics call it the throne of Peter, but they take their doctrine straight from Paul. They love the rules and the 'you gotta come through me' attitude he held. He even says that if the Spirit gives any spiritual gifts to anyone that person should be ignored unless they acknowledge that what Paul says is the Lord's command. (1Cor 14:37) Have you ever wondered why God wouldn't let Paul go into certain areas to spread the Gospel? I've always got the impression it was because he would have done more harm than good. He was awfully full of himself. He loved the Lord above all else, and it just poured out of him in truly beautiful wonderful works, but sometimes he just couldn't get over himself and his upbringing. I'm glad he was a zealot for the Lord though. Jesus is so wonderful. He sure knows how to pick the right man for the job. But I just don't know why Paul should be the authority on dealing with outpourings of the Spirit in church. His letter to Corinth is taken as the only Gospel on it, but go back to Acts and Pentecost. Peter and his group got so wild, everyone thought they were drunk when they poured out onto the streets. He and the Eleven got up and celebrated this, using it as an opportunity to preach. You didn't read that he told anybody to shut up or that they should restrain themselves so "...all things should be done with regard to decency and propreity and in orderly fashion." (1Cor 14:40) Jesus tells us Peter was to be the rock His church was built upon. I adore Peter and I want to be a Christian like him. Paul is much too judgemental and rule-bound for me. He's a Pharisee. I love Paul. 1Cor 13 is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible. How could anyone think it was not written by someone in the grip of the Holy Spirit? But I have to remind myself that not everything that came from the apostles was of the Spirit. Peter himself was praised by Jesus in one moment as having had a revelation straight from God, and the next moment was being called the devil, and told to get away. An example of this with Paul, is that Jesus said if we want to come to the Father we have to come as little children, but Paul says, "...stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." (1Cor 14:20,21), then he goes right on to quote the Law. A true Pharisee. And it was Jesus who warned us to listen to them, but don't be like them. A final comment about Paul. In 1Corin 15:5-8, he deliberately leaves out any mention that it was the women who walked with Jesus who were chosen to take the news to the Apostles that Jesus was risen. Matt, Mark, and Luke, all feel it is important to tell this. The only Gospel actually written by one of the Apostles goes further and says not only did angels appear to the women, but that Jesus Himself came to the sobbing Mary and basically said, "Woman, what are you doing?" (John 20:15) Read those verses. The angels had already come to instruct her, but Jesus, who had not yet even gone to His Father after His resurrection, was moved by His love for her to stop and comfort her himself. "Mary!" He said to her. Can't you just hear Him? In one word, he says, didn't I tell you about this? Am I not standing right here in front of you? now, get up and hush. Could He not have appeared just as easily first to Peter? Or John, "the disciple that He loved"? But He didn't. And the fact that He stopped on the way to His Father, still ceremonial clean (Don't touch me---), just to stop this cherished woman from grieving one moment longer, speaks to me of a love that is just immeasurable. Jesus loves men, but He cherishes women. Praise God! Thank you Jesus and I love you, too! |
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42 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58614 | ||
I'm glad you're worrying, because that means you're praying for me, too. And if I'm praying for the Spirit to open my eyes and you're praying for the same thing, then that makes two of us in agreement! I love this forum! It has been such a Godsend! I tend to be extremely literal. I look at what you say here and I think, well, okay, if that's the way you look at it then that wouldn't be a contradiction. But it means that I have to subtly change my own definition of contradiction. So maybe I just need a better word to describe/define what I mean. I've already decided that conflicting was too harsh. So perhaps contradicting is as well. But I have to stand by the fact that I have to disagree with Paul when he says he has offended no one. I love him, now, but there was a time early in my spiritual awakening when I dismissed him entirely as completely offensive and a woman-hater. How awful it would have been if I hadn't kept praying and studying! Think of everything he has to offer that I would have missed. |
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43 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58615 | ||
So if I have legitimate questions of things I find written in the Bible, and post my observations and questions about them, on a FORUM created for such study, I am ranting? You seem to find it necessary for my salvation that I should give Paul equal authority with Jesus and with the pathes the Holy Spirit is forcing me personally to walk. Hmm. I'll pray about that, but...well, I don't want to poison the soup, but I am not going to be granting anyone authority equal to Jesus that isn't the Father or the Holy Ghost. |
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44 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58618 | ||
Who was Jacob to wrestle with the angel of the Lord? I read and study and pray over the Scriptures constantly. Literally hours every day because the Spirit hardly lets me out of the house! I can stop studying to care for my husband, my children, my horses, my house and to go to church! It has been almost 3 months since I have watched secular television! I couldn't even tell you what the top 40 songs are anymore! Cast doubt?? CAST DOUBT??? Are you out of your mind? Do you have a mind? I don't! I have this tool the Holy Spirit has appropriated for MY edification! I'm judging??? I am asking questions and being hammered by such as your posting for daring! I'm asking the questions and making the comments in this public forum because I want other thoughts and queries and comments to continue to grow mine! I'm trying to water and fertilize the seed the Holy Spirit is working inside of me and you want me to root it out and throw it away! Well here's a little testimony for you! I left church in my mid-twenties because I was asked to leave a Bible study group for asking the 'disruptive' question of 'where did the pigs come from that Jesus threw the demons into?'. I was told I was questioning the divine authority and divine inspiration of the Bible and they just didn't think that was a good start, so could I please not come back? Well I didn't. I'm 41 years old this time and the Spirit has a hold on me like a headlock. And I'm not fighting it. So I'm not going to be pushed away from my Savior by people like you again. I am not bashing any apostle. At one time I deliberately didn't study Paul because I found him hateful in his attitude towards women. The Spirit has drawn me back to him again and again, and I have learned to LOVE him, but I still have questions and issues with some of the things he said. If you have Scriptures that will edify me, I would be happy to have them, but you're wasting your time if you think vague threats of judgement out of YOUR OPINION are giving me any edification. Jesus met me where I was and He has brought me to where I am, and I have complete and absolute Faith that He will bring me on the rest of the way. In spite of people like you who only want people on this forum who don't wonder things like how Jews in a Jewish land happened to have a herd of pigs hanging around. Do us both a favor. Ignore my posts and I'll ignore yours. If you have anything to teach that I need to learn, I have no doubt that the Spirit will make me accidently click on that particular post. Melanie |
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45 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58620 | ||
Hmm. Mockery and scorn. What's your Biblical reference for that, gentlemen? Melanie |
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46 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58641 | ||
That's exactly the prayer I do use. And it works because as I said, I used to care nothing for Paul and now it's just these few passages that stick in my craw. I am sure it is something within me, probably the woman, but little by little, the Spirit is working it out in me. Thank you for caring. You are like a bright star in what for me has so far has been a mostly dark and condemning forum. |
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47 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58699 | ||
I believe that Scripture is the inspired, infalliable, inerrant Word of God. No ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions. I love Paul, and it has been a journey getting there. These very few Scriptures were so hurtful to me that I would cry and wonder why God did not love Woman. But my spirit would not accept that God did not love woman, so I kept at it. Unceasingly. I accept that the Word as it was given from Paul is infalliable, so then the error was either in me, my reading of it, or in the translation of it because I know God not only loves woman, but deeper, He cherishes and delights in them. Can you imagine my comfort when the Spirit brought me to Proverbs 8, where the Word says Wisdom is a woman? and in verse 30 I read, "Then I was beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always." (Amplified) Once I worked through my sorrow and pain, rejecting it, accepting on Faith that God loved and cherished and delighted in the female aspect of "...His image and likeness", then He takes me straight to a Scripture that even uses the word 'delight'! Praise the Lord and His Mighty Name! That was some weeks ago, and I don't believe it coincidence that almost the very first thing I get into on this forum is this very Paul whom I so recently come to love in all his writings, even those I do not understand. Yesterday I left this forum and even felt like Paul. After he had been stoned and left for dead. I awoke this morning and rose from my prayer like Paul determined that even after being stoned I would continue. God loves me, and so does Paul. On Faith I returned to my studies knowing that as long as I don't give up the quest for Truth, I will find the treasure of it. In Faith, I went to my Bible content that the Word itself would reveal the way I was to go. So where did it take me? Back to 1 Corinthians 14. The source of all this controversy and angst. Except this time, do you know what verses drew me? Verse 11, "If I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me." Then verse 19, "But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." And finally, back up to Verse 15, "So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind." It was like Paul himself was speaking through to time straight to me. I love it when the Word does that! Sorry.... I had to pause for a minute and just praise God!!! Now I have come to my computer and checked my email and come here to this forum. Again. Back into the lions den. Except now I have some interesting information delivered to me over these lines of bits and data. Something I had not considered, and somethings I had not known. And a very nice post from a very nice Christian man, also "coincidentally' named Timothy. I had not considered that Timothy was not a letter of instruction to the church, but a letter counseling Timothy on how to organize the church. And it had just skipped over my mind that the church in question was Ephesus. Ephesus, where the women were not traditionally educated. So now I look at 1Timothy 2:11 and 12, and see that Paul is saying these women should learn. "...in quietness and full submission." Well of course. That is the proper attitude for any student with her teacher. And of course, these women should not be teaching their husbands! Talk about a blind guide! I even understand the Adam and Eve reference. I've always thought God punished Man because he listened to Woman, when it was supposed to be Woman who listened to Man. He was the one God gave the knowledge to...Hah! I just thought of something. I just answered a post last night on the Adam and Eve thing under the Christ's Elect thread, clarifying my thoughts on that (and called a feminist and dismissed by the man this morning! LOL!) My goodness, the Spirit has been busy with me. In any event, I view the Greek definition of "Head" as the source. Which in the original early Greek was used about 97 percent of the time, and rarely defined as "authority", not even in all of the 3 percent not defined as "source". What a terrible source these Ephesian women would have been for teaching men when they were not only new to the Faith but also knew to learning itself. It would have no doubt have had the same results of Woman leading Man in the Garden. I never back these things up, yet just a moment ago I copied this to notepad, and no sooner had I done it then my connection was lost. I would have lost all of this if I'd not been able to paste it back on. Praise the Lord! So now I'm going to end this post having told you 'what I had not considered' then if you don't mind I'll tell you the rest of this in what "I didn't know" until this morning in a second post. |
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48 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58704 | ||
Hello again Tim. Hopefully this will be a short post. But I leave that to the Spirit. What I did not know yesterday when I was being attacked as an "apostle basher" was some interesting bits of church history. In 352AD at the Council of Laodicea, the "new" church, (Catholic), it was decided that "One ought not to establish in the church the women called overseers." Hmmm, right? Who were "the women called overseers" if we accept the modern translating of these troubling verses of Paul? There wouldn't have been any such thing. Yet there obviously was. In 398 AD, the 4th Snod of Carthage said, "A woman, however learned and holy, may not presume to teach men in an assembly". Again, hmmmm. The way these things work, issues are brought up, debated and decisions reached are in the findings. If Paul in the earliest churches had determined that there would no such thing, why was it going on for the Catholic church to determine to stop it? 441AD, they also decided to "Let no one proceed to the ordination of deaconessess anymore". Anymore? Then in 517AD, they proclaim, "We abrogate completely..." then include "...the consecration of widows who are named deaconesses." following in 533AD with "No longer shall the blessing of deaconess be given, because of the weakness of the sex." No wonder they didn't want the Bible translated into common languages! Then you wait a few hundred years until the context and usage of the language itself has changed (i.e. Head being no longer used to imply "source" and now viewed as "authority"), and when finally Bibles are allowed to be circulated amongst more than the priesthood, that Greek has been transformed, and translated into Latin...... And don't anyone bothering to post to tell me it couldn't have happened. I live in a Christian country that was established by Christians, consecrated to the Redeemer by Christians, and even had a government CREATED by these Christians in such a way that no Christian sect could ever have authority over the others (our founders were persecuted Christians coming here to escape the persecution of OTHER Christians); yet here we are a few hundred years later and it's all been perverted into 'all religions are equal and protected from Christianity'! The Deceiver is clever and cunning, and truly totally depraved, and a few hundred years of step by step progress to an error that makes women feel unwelcome or inferior in Christ would be just his style. So there's the "source" of the error. I call him the Deceiver, and right here on the airways where he is said to have authority, I declare I am going to keep after this under the guidance of the Spirit until I have his smarmy head under my heel! I hope he already feels the headache from the crushing I pray to give him! The Word is infallible, but my spirit tells me that there is an error. I accept it could be mine and that it means just what it says in plain English, but I don't think so and now I feel like a hound on the scent of it. God is good! I do so love this stuff. So now I am off to the original Greek, to the times of Corinth and Ephesus. "Praying in the spirit, and in the mind. Singing in the spirit, and in the mind." Wish me bon voyage, dear Tim, and pray for me. I can think of one or two in this forum who hope my ship sinks! |
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49 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58705 | ||
See how the Spirit works? I just finished the two long posts to you, coming to virtually the same conclusions, and now I read this one! Praise the Lord! And God bless you. Melanie Cosentino |
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50 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58709 | ||
Absolutely not. I put it right in there with every word written in the whole Bible. Old Testament and New Testament. | ||||||
51 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58710 | ||
If you will read my posts to Tim Moran that I wrote this morning you will find out that I am not "accusing" Paul of being discriminatory against women. I am questioning the smell of discrimination that these few verses put in my nostrils. | ||||||
52 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58714 | ||
As a woman I came to be comfortable with the term "helper" along time ago. When the only other times I could find that term used in the Bible it was referring to God or the Holy Spirit, I figured Woman was in excellent company! Going to read your other post now. Do you know what a Godsend you are? Melanie |
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53 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58715 | ||
I have been having some great conversation on this with Tim Moran. Don't dismiss the arguments, Steve. It's that smell. Think about your refrigerator. You open the door and you smell something not right. Not pleasant either. You know it's not the refrigerator, but there's that smell every time you open the door. I've said those things because I smell what I smell. I know it's not the Word, but there it is every time I get into 1Cor14 in the Word. All I'm looking for is what's the source of that smell. If you read my posts with Tim, you'll see I've already cleared the air, for me anyway, in 1Tim verses, and I've got a good lead on 1Cor14,too. Melanie |
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54 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58716 | ||
So how do the men in your church greet each other with the holy kiss? As Paul and Peter both say you should do each time you meet? I've always been curious about that. Now I've found a church that sticks so strigently to the Word in their practices, I can finally get the answer. So how do you give a holy kiss? And is it every time you meet? Or just every time you come to church? |
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55 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58720 | ||
I wasn't so cheerful yesterday. I blasted Kalos. Well, it was a blast for me anyway. I just love God and I want to share it with everyone. When people try to hoard it to themselves or seem to be putting conditions on it, declaring God has put these conditions on it--not them, oh no, never them!, that's one of the few things that can still get me really mad. (And me a redhead who used to have the temper stereotyped to redheads!) I suppose I should post and apologize to Kalos. But I'm not going to. If God wants me to, He can make me. I know He will if that's what He wants. There are some on this forum that would use that statement to reinforce their 'no free will' arguments, but I don't buy that either. I just figure He is rather like my young children. When they want me to do something, they just don't stop bothering me about it until my "no" turns into an "I don't know", then into a "maybe", and finally an "okay, fine!" That's the way He works on me anyway. I figure He's just teaching me the way I should work with Him. Persistently. And if anyone wants to hammer me on that one I will direct you to the OT, Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gommorah, and to keep things equal, also to the NT, where the woman is haranging Jesus about saving her daughter from demons. He even calls her a dog and she just keeps at Him. Persistance. God wants it from us. Hmm. Wonder how I got to that from Paul. Thanks for your kind post. God Bless, Melanie |
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56 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58728 | ||
My point and I agree. But I wonder how you can use in your arguement the differing social methods and practices of locality,language, custom, tradition, language context, etc., in translating Scripture when it is instructions to men, then insist that these same be dismissed when viewing Scriptures instructing women. And actually I was serious, too. How do you kiss? The European cheek and cheek? The hoi-poloi buzz the air by the cheek? I've always wondered. |
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57 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58744 | ||
Now I have to tell you what I found out in my studies since yesterday. The reference to the law isn't to OT or Talmudic law, although the Pharisees had rules and Temple traditions on women but they seemed to be to the men forbidding them to talk to women, but there is a good argument for this to be referring to local civil law in Corinth! The law existed anyway. |
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58 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58755 | ||
Thank you. THIS is the kind of instruction I am hungering for from this forum. God bless. |
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59 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58761 | ||
Thank you. | ||||||
60 | succorer neutral gender | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58769 | ||
Okay. Politely, where do you get that this was church policy? Jews of that time didn't even segregate the women from worship as they do now. Rules were that Pharisees were forbidden in most cases to talk to women, but I've never found anywhere that says the women couldn't talk. I'm not being rude here. I am truly studying this and I genuinely want to know where you are getting the information that says this was a matter of church conduct so that I can study it. Thanks in advance, Melanie |
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