Results 101 - 118 of 118
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: jesusfreak508@aol.com Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
101 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58548 | ||
Timothy and Titus speaks to forming new churches and Jesus is the authority on repentence and forgiveness. Paul also spoke DIRECTLY to these kinds of circumstances, making no exceptions nor placing any conditions, for the forgiveness and the welcoming back into the congregation. So that the man wouldn't be brought too low and depressed--what would his condition be if he was trounced as you would prefer? Just as low and depressed as any man could be. You might also take a gander at Paul's writings on living by the Law. If you want to be held accountable under one of them, you'd better be ready to live under all of them, because you're giving up Grace for it. And when you choose the Law over Grace, you die. | ||||||
102 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58549 | ||
I answered you in the other note, but I'll say it here, too. No where in the Scripture does it say that the pastor must go and never preach again. Nowhere. And if he is truly repentent and has been forgiven, then he has a testimony that will serve to teach others to avoid the pitfalls and traps that ensnared him. That is valuable teaching. No one would be served by preventing it but the devil, and anything that confounds him to it I say, Amen! And sin is sin. Repentance brings forgiveness for all of it or none of it. You want to live by the Law, that's your choice, but I don't want any of it. I'll take forgiveness and Grace. |
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103 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58550 | ||
2 Corinthians 6:3 "We put no obstruction in anybody's way, we give no offense in anything, so that no fault may be found and our ministry blamed or discredited." That was my reference. She was offended and it was an obstruction to her praise and worship. It was getting between she and God. That's not important? Christ meets us and forgives us where we are. If the pastor has repented, I'm not worried about him. Though for the offense to his ministry I don't see how he can get out of publically repenting and asking forgiveness from his congregation. And as for the church-- excuse me, but I worship Christ. Not my church or my pastor. I love Christ and He doesn't get offended. He aches for the sinner and wants them/us under his wings like baby chicks. But this woman is distressed and that is my concern. Yes, the instructions in Matthew should be followed. I agree wholeheartedly. I am learning that the Bible has a solution or instructions for just about any situation, but where did you get in the Bible that there was even any chance that God would strike him dead for continuing to preach and teach the Gospel? If he has repented and is forgiven.... and go to 2 Corinthians where Paul himself said he told them this to test their obedience, and since they had passed the test and obeied, they should bring him back in and comfort him so as to confound the devil. How do you get God is going to strike him dead from that???? And how can you teach poor Ivory313 that she should be so unforgiving and hard hearted when she is already so wounded? I would hope that she would go through the steps of Matthew with a saddened but obedient and determined heart. It must be done, but if she does it to be hurtful to him...I'm afraid I just don't understand your point of view. |
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104 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58551 | ||
Notice it doesn't say there wasn't any either. | ||||||
105 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58610 | ||
2 Corinthians 2:6-9 "The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. (7)Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. (8)I urge you, there, to reaffirm your love for him. (9)The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything." I thought 'we people' were all brothers and sisters in Christ? What 'you people' are you representing? |
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106 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58611 | ||
John, I too have wrestled with the difference between membership and leadership, and I think David is an excellent example. But what I have come down to is that the Bible doesn't seem to speak to leadership in this (I'm still looking), so I feel we have to be bound by what it does address. And a leader is a member. I just get real queasy about going outside the Bible; I think the technical term is allegorical (not going by what the Word says but by what we think the Word means). Once you start doing that, where do you draw the line? For me the issues are clear. Paul and Timothy tell us how to pick our leaders. That should be our model. But that begs the question about ministers who were drug addicts or adulterers or like Paul, murderers, who were saved then began a ministry. So how far back do you look to judge their moral character, etc? But that's another question. The Bible doesn't tell me what to do in the case of a leader who met the criteria, then stumbled or outright fell (as this prof certainly did), but it is very clear what to do when a member does. Matthew and Paul, too in 2Cor 2:6 when he readdresses the 1Cor member, say if they repent we have to forgive and comfort and restore. Actually in this case, we don't really know if this guy has even been rebuked, much less if he repented. Which if he hasn't, then in case the point is moot anyway. Melanie |
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107 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58613 | ||
But you don't just continue being lazy do you? No. And have corrected your behavior, you see your improvement on next month's report. I guess, I try to think of how Jesus would react and while Paul had no problem being harsh, Jesus never was. If a man or woman repented, He forgave. He didn't demand the consequences demanded by the Law. This man if fired, would lose his income, his home, and his wife's income. If he is truly repentent, has been rebuked, publically repented, and accepts his church's censure of his behavior, he should be tossed on the street, and forbidden to ever teach the Gospel again? I don't know. It just seems unnecessarily cruel and heavy handed. |
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108 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58628 | ||
Alright. I can go with you there. Just tossing him to the wolves is what was upsetting me. Melanie |
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109 | 508, what about lifelong consequences? | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58636 | ||
Romans 7:5,6 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. (6) But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:14,15,18 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. (15)What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!....(18)You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, (4)in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. There are many many more, but what I meant was that if you choose to make the law your way to salvation, then you are surely going to die, because no one has ever been able to keep every letter of it and that is the requirement of living under the law. In Acts 14:10, 11 Peter says "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?(11)No! We believe it is through the grace our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." We keep the law because that is the blueprint or roadmap God gave us to show us and guide us in how He wants to live and treat with each other. But we HAVE LIFE because of God's grace. Because we are God's children, His beloved, those whom He gave His Son's life to restore, those who have given themselves to His Son, then we obey the law from love and obedience. The law can't kill us anymore because we are promised life through grace. But if you say the law, keeping the law is how you are seeking eternal life, then you are saying that by works, by something you do, you can earn your salvation. Grace is the only way to salvation and life. That's what I meant if you choose law over grace then you die. Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. (14)The entire law is summed up in a single command: Love your neighbor as yourself (15) If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfullness, (23)gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. |
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110 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58637 | ||
Where does it say if you are disqualified while an overseer, you may no longer be an overseer? | ||||||
111 | 508, Are you a DQed overseer? | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58638 | ||
lol. I see now. So I have to have walked in his shoes to feel compassion and mercy for a fellow Christian. No. I am not a disqualified overseer. I have never even known anyone who stood at risk of such a thing. Where does this term "disqualified overseer" come from anyway? I don't ever recall seeing it in the Scriptures. You point me the James 3:1; now, I would likewise suggest you have a prayer over James 3:2 and James 3:17 and James 4:11,12 and James 5:9 and James 5:15. Mercy and compassion are also Scriptural. So how do you judge me as someone "who cannot follow what Scripture clearly tells us" because those are the Scriptures that tug at my spirit? Why are the only Scriptures you give praise to in this situation the ones that punish and condemn? And do you do this in all situations? I wonder why does that make you a good Christian, and me a "you people" who is less than you? |
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112 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58640 | ||
Oh Thank you! You are an answer to a prayer! I was just this moment answering another person who was alluding to me as a "you people" who doesn't follow the Scripture because I believe compassion and mercy and forgiveness should be the way this situation is handled. I have been truly HAMMERED today. And with authority of such terms as "disqualified overseers" which I've never even seen in the Scriptures. I was trying to think of a Scripture that restores good cheer because my spirit was truly sad, now here you are! God bless you. | ||||||
113 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58683 | ||
Actually you bring me more of a mind to Titus 1:15,16 I am thinking in the early Church, you would have been in the group howling that Paul/Saul should not be allowed to be an apostle because of his earlier, Christ forgiven sins. Jesus had to knock Paul down and blind him for 3 days to get it into his head that his treasured rules were meaningless to the Lord. How wonderful to know that if Jesus still has a use for this poor fallen man in ministry the rule-bound Pharisees will be powerless to stop it. So this debate really is pointless. Continuing in prayer for our fallen brother, and you. Melanie |
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114 | 508, Are you a DQed overseer? | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58684 | ||
That is exactly where I am. And when I don't know, or I'm not sure, I always choose to err on the side of the Lamb. Trusting that God has a plan and that He is going to have His Will and His Way. I am praying earnestly for mercy for this man though. However it works out, I trust in my Savior. God bless Melanie |
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115 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58708 | ||
Yes. I agree totally. And I have felt inadequate responding to this not knowing all the circumstances. But you are the first person who has had a criteria of any sort that would lead to implementing the Timothy/Titus rules. Would scandal also be determined by the "crime"? Such as a child molester--- you're forgiven by you must not be allowed into any position around children or as a leader because of the very nature of your offense and the ever present danger of backsliding? and Adultery/Fornication-- 1st time and repeat offenders, with also I would think the additional determining factor of the damage it did to the church body by the determination of how many people actually knew and would/could be harmed by it? I guess what I am saying here is that it should be determined on a case by case issue, with mercy being as important as punishment God bless, Melanie |
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116 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58711 | ||
No, actually, I don't think you sound harsh at all. I too believe action must be taken. I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. And yes, I know that Jesus could be harsh. "oh you hyprocrits" what??? 9 or 10 times in one chapter? And tossing the money changers out. And dead bones was probably a pretty deadly insult, but my relationship with Jesus is personal. I can't step out of the box of unconditional love that He fills me and surrounds me with in my fellowship with Him through the Holy Spirit. Paul, until this morning, was someone I had read about it, but had never communicated with on any personal level, so that would be why I could say he was more harsh. I hated this forum yesterday, but today is another day. I am really loving the places it is leading me and the way it is driving me to clarify in my own mind so many things. God bless you, and thank you for caring Melanie |
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117 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58712 | ||
Tim See my other post on this. Thanks so much. Melanie |
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118 | Church is kidnapped to Sodom! | James 2:8 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58739 | ||
Allegorical. And you are saying that when believers sin, they've already used their get-out-of-jail-free card so now they're just out of luck. I don't believe in luck and I don't think God parcels out His blessings or His forgiveness. So I'll ask you the same thing the disciples asked Jesus. How many times do you forgive your brother? In Christ, Melanie Oh, and I apologize for the other post. I meant everything I said, but my heart wasn't right. I was responding with the right words but the wrong temper. |
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