Results 21 - 40 of 43
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: jelkins Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 133703 | ||
Thanks for your response, Tim. I will check more into what you say. In the meantime, for anyone interested, here is a link to The Bible Truths Online Greek Course, Lesson Seven titled the Definite Article and Prepositions. Sublinks to articles about Jesus' Diety, the ceasation of miracles, and the "for" in Acts 2:38. www.bibletruths.net choose "the Bible" "Study Course" "Site Map" "On-line Greek Course" "Lesson Seven" |
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22 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 133713 | ||
Tim, continuing discussion about the Greek word, eis, how can I find BAG, the definitive lexicon of Greek words, which you reference? Searched Google for "Greek Lexicon" and got 153,000 hits. Thought I'd just ASK you instead of looking through them all. Don't like to admit I also searched for "BAG". The return on that was much too general, as you might expect. Have found other info about it. At the following link, article entitled "A Rose is a Rose" contains this statement: 5. Finally, Doctor Daniel B. Wallace has stated in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics that the “causal” use of eis in Acts 2:38 (i.e., “because of” instead of “in order to”) has been demonstrated to fail in terms of linguistic evidence (p. 370) – http://www.christiancourier.com/penpoints/homographFor.htm |
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23 | does one need to be baptised to be saved | John 3:5 | jelkins | 130971 | ||
Yes. Justification for my answer has been given in my other recent posts. | ||||||
24 | does one need to be baptised to be saved | John 3:5 | jelkins | 132070 | ||
To answer your question “how did [I] receive the Spirit, by Water Baptism or the Hearing of Faith?”, I say both, my friend. I noticed you revised Paul’s question a little bit. His question was “by the works of the law [of Moses] or the hearing of faith?” Romans 10:17 says “faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” So, I heard from the Word that baptism (obedience) saves me, and the Holy Spirit is given to me after baptism. Acts 2:38, 5:32. To me, Romans 6, first few verses, clearly describes baptism as the new birth. |
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25 | How will I know? | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129165 | ||
In John chapters 14-16, during the "last supper," Jesus tells the Apostles he will send them the Comforter to bring to mind all he has taught them and guide them to all truth. The Comforter came to them in Acts 2. We don't have that miraculous guidance of the Holy Spirit like the Apostles had, but we do have the words they wrote down for us. Hebrews 4:12 says those words are living and active. See also Rom 12:1,2 | ||||||
26 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129172 | ||
For JKW:About prophets today. It's true God is unchanging, but doesn't Heb 1:1,2 say his "ways" are different? Compare also Old Covenant and New Covenant. See also 1 Cor 13:8-10. Prophecies, knowledge, tongues, which will cease, are among the miraculous gifts given by the Holy Spirit (listed in 1 Cor 12.) Visualize "that which is perfect" as being God's written word as contained in scriptures. Concerning your quote of Joel: "in the last days...old men will dream dreams and see visions and your son's and daughters will give prophesy...," Peter said in Acts 2:16, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." In other words, Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled as Peter spoke. So, the "last times" started about that time. More: Because of the words in Jude 3, "contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints," I get the idea there will be no new revelation or prophecy. Keep on reading; keep on studying; keep "the faith." J.Elkins |
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27 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129180 | ||
Consider the two verses, below. If the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments, and if we must "continue in the teaching of Christ" ("abide in the doctrice of Christ" KJV) to have God, maybe you are just waiting to learn what the commandments/teachings are. The Holy Spirit guides you through the Word, but it is your responsibility to learn the Word -- the "milk" and then the "meat" (Heb 5:12,13; I Pet 2:2) The more you learn, the more the HS can speak to you through the Word. No easy way - just diligent/regular study. Eccliastes 12:13 "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." and 2 John 1:9 "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. " J. ELkins |
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28 | Searching for the truth | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129185 | ||
You can't search and do the will of God without knowing your Bible. Christians must do His will; to do it they must search for it; the place to search is in the Bible. Where do you get the idea there is a "point" system? | ||||||
29 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129340 | ||
To JKW. Maybe you could rethink your position evidenced by your statement that the Bible is intended to pertain to our lives today AS MUCH as it was the day it was written. Look again, carefully, at Heb 1:1,2. It tells us God speaks to us by his Son, not the O.T. prophets. In which case, the prophecy in Joel wouldn't pertain to you today. It's a good idea, whenever possible, to let the scriptures interpret themselves, and when Peter said "this is that" it pretty well closes the prophecy for me. I don't speculate that it means something further. The Old Testament has great value in helping us understand the New. In fact, Jesus said in John 5:47 "If you don't believe [Moses] writings, how will you believe my words?" There is a N.T. verse that says the Old is "written for our learning" (I can't find it). Heb 8:13 says the old law is obsolete. Gal 5:4 says we can't go back and be justified by the old law, else we're fallen from grace. Gal 3:23-27 speaks of it as being a schoolmaster/tutor to bring us (Jews?) to Christ. Our hope lies in the New Testament, where you find the doctrine of Christ. Tune in to the clear teachings, like the characteristics of the church and how to become a Christian (Acts), and how Christians are supposed to think and behave. (The epistles were written to folks in the church.) Keep watching out for the false teachers. I call to your mind Acts 19:11 where the Bereans "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so." And look at II Pet 3:16, where it suggests we can wrest (pervert) the scriptures to our own destruction. May God bless your search for the truth. As you "grow in grace and knowledge" the things hard to understand will become more clear. | ||||||
30 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129349 | ||
I offer you this paper I wrote about the topic "In Christ." ARE YOU “IN CHRIST”? Do you believe that baptism is not necessary for salvation, but only an exercise to show a good conscience toward God? What if baptism really is necessary for salvation? It’s likely both of us believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that the following six things are important: Hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of sins, confessing Jesus as God and Savior, being baptized, and living a righteous life. We differ if you think salvation comes at the point of belief in Christ and that it is impossible to lose it. The Bible teaches that salvation comes at the point of obedience in baptism, and that living a righteous life is necessary to keep it. If your religious upbringing has convinced you that you are saved by faith alone, please judge whether that is an opinion of man -- a misinterpretation; that is, that God will save you outside of Christ. The Bible says one cannot be saved without faith, but it does not say one is saved by faith alone. Baptism is a necessary step in the plan of salvation. Sample text: · Mark 16:15-16, Jesus to the eleven: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved…” · Acts 2:38, Then Peter said to the Jews, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…” · Acts 8:35-37, Ethiopian eunuch. “[Philip] preached Jesus to him. 36Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, ‘See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?’ 37Then Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’" · Acts 16:33 Philippian Jailer. “And immediately he and all his family were baptized.” – “…and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” · Acts 22:6, Paul’s conversion, “Why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” · I Peter 3:21, “…baptism doth also now save us.” Being “in Christ” is a profound and highly spiritual concept, but logical and understandable, too. In Ephesians, Paul presents that concept 34 times. In Philippians, 17 times. In Colossians, 11 times. Other writers of New Testament epistles also use the term or concept “in Christ.” All spiritual blessings are “in Christ” (Eph 1:3). Salvation is a spiritual blessing. Salvation is “in Christ” (II Timothy 2:10). This is supported by Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14, and II Timothy 3:15 (“In Him” we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins). So, “how do we get into Christ?” The question is answered by scripture in at least two places – Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27: We are baptized into Christ. Paul said to the Ephesians, “there is one baptism.” I ask you, is it the baptism you believe is done after one is saved, or the baptism I believe saves by putting one into Christ – where salvation is? Don’t you agree that if the Bible is truth and we differ on our interpretations of it, one or both of us are wrong? We both cannot be right. All Christians are charged by apostolic teaching to speak the same thing, have the same mind, which is the mind of Christ who is the head of the body, the church. (I Cor 1:10; Rom 15:5-6; Phil 1:27 and 2:5; I Pet 4:1; and Col 1:18). Everything taught here is compatible with John 3:16, Romans 10:11-13, and Acts 16:30-31, which, in essence, say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” Because of the warning in II John, verse 9, it is imperative that we test our beliefs to see if we are abiding in the doctrine of Christ. J. Elkins A related question. Can one be saved outside of the church? I Cor 12:13: “…by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body…” Col 1:10: “And He [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church…” Acts 2:47. “And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.” |
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31 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129353 | ||
Hello Steve. Have you not just "debunked" the scriptures I referred to? What scripture do you use to tell how to get into Christ? If discussion on this is not allowed, I withdraw from the forum. So sorry. JElkins | ||||||
32 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129383 | ||
Mark, thanks for your note. Assuming Steve has some authority as a site manager to suggest I don't discuss the topic of baptismal regeneration, I cannot reply to you on this forum. I do have scriptural answers for your questions, and would be happy to share. I'll ask the site management to give you my email address. | ||||||
33 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129785 | ||
Haven’t had a reply about Steve’s being on staff, so guess I’ll talk awhile more. I say “yes” to the 1st of your questions: “Do we maintain our salvation by our righteous living (by which we could boast)?”; qualifying the boasting part, below. I agree that some verses can be interpreted more than one way, and weighing them with all other texts on the same topic is the best way to come to a conclusion. I know that no amount of good works one might do will earn salvation; conversely, I know that salvation by grace cannot be attained without righteous works produced by faith. In both OT and NT God has demanded obedience from his people. I know of no place where this is more plainly taught than in Ezekiel 18. Since you posted your note, I’ve studied John 10, and Rom 3, 4, 8, 9, and 10. Much there applies to the topic of grace vs works. But, I’ll start with the scripture you alluded to – Eph 2:8,9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of works, lest anyone should boast.” I have to reconcile that with James 2, emphases on verses 14, 19, and 26, “Faith without works is dead,” and verse 24, “...a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” Paul goes on to say in Eph 2:10: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” These are the works I must do to keep my salvation. As touching on boasting, the works in verse 9 are apparently different from those in verse 10. Consideration of Romans 3, emphases on verses 20, 27, and 28 helps to clarify. ‘…therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight…” “27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” Another key scripture is Romans 9:32; the Jews sought righteousness by the works of the [old] law, but not by faith. There are many exhortations to live righteously and many warnings about not doing so. Here are reminders of a few. (I think it is important to remember that all the epistles are addressed to people in the church; those who were already saved.) · If you do these things, you will never fall. II Pet 1:5-10 · Raised to walk in newness of life. Rom 6 (This sure seems to me to be a description of the new birth) · Be not conformed to the world but be ye transformed… Romans 12 · Walk in the light. I John · Love not the world I John · Abide in the doctrine of Christ II John 9 · God will make a way of escape from temptation (it’s our responsibility to find and use the escape hatch) I Cor 10:13 · be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, II Peter 1:5-10 · “….work out your own salvation with fear and trembling…” Phil 2:12 · “…He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” Heb 5:9 · Heb 11 is a powerful list of examples of faith combined with works. · let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, Heb 10-24 · For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise Heb 10-36 · “…you have purified your souls in obeying the truth…” I Peter 1:22 · “…taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ…” II Thes 1:8 · But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:21-25 · We are judged not only by our works but our words: “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt 12:37 · So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, "We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.” Luke 17:10 · Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil. Ecc 12:13-14 Regarding John 10:27-29 and Romans 8:38-39. In light of other scriptures, I have to interpret these texts to mean that while nothing and no one can separate me from God, I myself can make the choice to turn away from Him and be lost. (e.g., the Prodigal Son.) Added note. If I believed all men were born totally depraved, I’d need to believe God would have to “make me” respond to Him, and if I believed he “made me do it,” I would have to believe there is nothing I could do to undo it. But, I believe God gives us the responsibility for making the choices, and that scripture tells us we have the ability to make righteous choices, and that we are accountable for how we choose, until death. Later posts on the thief on the cross, Cornelius’ household, deathbed conversions. Striving for the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I love you back. J. Elkins |
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34 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130157 | ||
Hi JKW. Answering the questions you put to me directly. The context of Heb 7 requires me to interpret verse 15 as meaning Jesus. Luke 11:52 is figurative language. In my opinion (IMO), the lawyers (experts in the law) had the resources and education to get the knowledge of the deep spiritual meanings of the Law of Moses, but they didn’t search for it, nor did they encourage or assist those who looked to them for guidance to find the truth. Luke 12:51. Some will accept the teachings of Jesus, some will not. Explained in verses 52 and 53. Same thing in Matthew Chapter 10. Luke 14-16. Exaggeration for effect. To me it means don’t let anything get in the way of your loving/serving the Lord. I John 2:15-17 says it another way. The verse about hating mothers, etc., must be reconciled with I John 2:11; 3:15, Matt 5:43-44, and all the other places where we are told to love everyone. Mark 10:17. The Bible doesn’t say for sure that he was lost, but there is a strong indication that the rich ruler chose love of his riches over the kingdom of God. We are not told if he later repented of that. You say you have seen the darkness covering you and know why the moon turns to blood, and you understand why he calls it the great and dreadful day of the Lord. It seems you have taken some of Joel’s descriptions and applied them to things that happened in your personal life. Of course, you are free to do that, but I question whether God meant the prophecy to be applied to you personally, especially since Peter on the day of Pentecost said “this is” the fulfillment of it. Having read many of the questions and answers on the Forum during Aug 04, I feel comfortable in saying that whatever view you take, it will be different from someone else’s. Be like the people of Berea in Acts 17, who “received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. ” |
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35 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130923 | ||
Mark, I opened a new topic to answer your question about the salvation of the thief on the cross. This is answering your question asking how I regard the salvation of gentiles in Acts 10:44, who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS) prior to water baptism. Please read Acts 2, 10, and 11. I have to determine if Paul’s words in Eph 4:5, about the “one baptism” is talking about the Holy Spirit baptism or water baptism. Can’t be both. The HS baptism was fulfillment of a promise to the Apostles (Acts 1:4-5). Scripture tells of two occurrences of it, Acts 2 and Acts 10. Water baptism is in obedience to a command. Salvation came to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles; in each case, evidence of this salvation was manifested by the power of the HS baptism. Acts 2 and Acts 10. Before Jesus ascended, he told the 11 Apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the power. Earlier he had said he would send the Comforter to bring to their minds everything he had told them and guide them into all truth. Key: This promise is to no one but the Apostles. Peter was preaching to Cornelius’ household “words by which they would be saved.” Acts 11:14. The HS came upon the Gentiles while Peter was speaking, and because it astonished Peter and the other Jews, my conclusion is that Peter’s words which were to save did not include mention of HS baptism. As stated many times in scripture, the reason for God’s signs and wonders was to confirm his word. Now that we have perfect knowledge and prophecy in the written word of God, which was confirmed and witnessed, the need for miracles is past. (First Cor 13 says the miracles will go away when the perfect comes.) The word of His creation was confirmed by miracles; the establishment of the Law of Moses was confirmed by miracles; and the establishment His church, the kingdom, was confirmed by miracles, one of which was the HS descending on the gentiles. The reason for the HS baptism of the gentiles was to show the Jews that God’s salvation is for the gentiles also, as evidenced by this verse: “When they [the Jews] heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." Acts 11:18 Then Peter continued preaching the word, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” (Acts 10:47,48) The example of the conversion of Cornelius’ household is consistent with all other examples of conversions in Acts. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus and obedience to the command is necessary for salvation. (At risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll quote Heb 5:9 again, “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” and I’ll call to attention II John 9.) Acts 2:38, the gift of the HS comes to us after baptism in water. See also Acts 19:1-5. My conclusion is that the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is water baptism. Anyone claiming Holy Spirit baptism today will have to make their own justifications for that, including why the astonishing manifestations, as given in scripture, are not present. |
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36 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130974 | ||
Tim, you say "Yet, the example of Cornelius doesn't occur in the order you profess. They were saved first, then baptized as a result of their salvation - not as a condition of their salvation." Please justify your statement with scripture. Those in Cornelius' household were saved by the words Peter spoke, which included the command to be baptized in water, which to be consistent with other plain scriptures is the point at which they were saved. Based on our discussions, you must feel that you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Were the manifestations of your baptism the same as those recorded in Acts 2 and Acts 10/11? Contending for the Faith. J Elkins |
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37 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130975 | ||
Mark, answering your last question: If water baptism is necessary for salvation, does this mean that death-bed conversions are impossible? I have to say I don’t know. Since God has commanded water baptism for remission of sins, I have no right or authority to say anyone can be saved without baptism. Nor has anyone else that authority. In my mind, to teach such may be to “tempt God.” I know God requires repentance and obedience, and that He did not lie when He said “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved,” but I also know the scriptures teach that nothing is impossible with God, that He is not willing that any should perish, that He is merciful, and He knows men’s hearts. I don’t play the “what if” game; like, what about the man on his deathbed, or what about the man in the fox-hole, or what if there is not enough water -- what about those who want to be saved but can’t be baptized? I have to leave them to God and beg Him to be merciful. Fair or unfair? His ways are not like mine, his thoughts are not like mine; There is a way that seems right to man but the end of it is death; We are all judged by the written word (all scriptural teachings). To speculate what God would do in any circumstance that is not clearly taught by the Word, to me would fall under “foolish questions,” or going beyond the Word. My job is to believe and obey, grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ, live righteously, and to teach others to do the same, before they get to the deathbed. This Old Testament story has always seemed a little unfair to me, even though I know God had commanded that no one should touch the ark. II Sam 6:6-8 “When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. Then David was angry because the LORD's wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah.” “Consider the goodness and severity [extreme strictness] of God.” (Romans 11:22) J. Elkins |
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38 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 132073 | ||
Your quote is of Jesus’ words to the Apostles. In John chapters 13 through 17, John recorded what Jesus told the chosen 12 during the Passover meal they shared together, commonly known as the “last supper.” The text in Acts 10 does not say Cornelius, et al, were saved prior to water baptism. I have addressed the points mentioned in your postscript. Will post it next. |
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39 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 132074 | ||
Tim, hope you didn’t give up on me. It doesn’t make any difference what I think or what I feel – or what you think or feel. It does matter what the text says. I read in Acts 19 that believers did not have the Holy Spirit (HS) until they were baptized in the name of Jesus. They received the Spirit when Paul laid his hands on them. I read in Acts 2:38 that the Holy Spirit was promised after baptism. I read in verses where baptism and salvation are both mentioned that salvation comes after baptism; e.g., “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mk 16:16)”; “be baptized…for remission of sins” (Acts 2:38); “be baptized, and wash away your sins” (Acts 22); “…because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts…” (Gal 4:6) – and I paraphrase, after being born again (of the water and the spirit) you get the Spirit. You misquote me. I didn’t say “the HS is just for the Apostles.” All Christians have the HS through the written Word, which is full of power. (Rom 1:16, Heb 4:12) I restate that the promise of the Comforter/Counselor and the “power from on high” was only for the Apostles. Even the occurrence at Cornelius household was for benefit of the Apostles, to show them that Gentiles had received “repentance to life.” Acts 11:18. [Jesus’ promise that the Comforter would bring to mind everything he had said and would guide into all truth was not to Cornelius’ household.] The baptismal measure of the HS enabled the Apostles (1) to establish the church (as prophesied, to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles); (2) to confirm with miracles that their words were from God; (3) to maintain the integrity of the church by giving to the early Christians via laying on of their hands 9 miraculous gifts of the HS (1 Cor 12; Acts 8; Acts 19) (nobody got all 9 of the gifts) -- there is no indication anyone else had the power to pass the gifts on -- Stephen had to call the Apostles to do it (Acts 8); and (4) then to write the Bible through inspiration [the perfect (complete) knowledge and prophecy of 1 Cor 13]. The Apostles died. The miraculous abilities went away. Today, we have the HS through the inspired written Word. Paul says to Timothy in II Tim 3:16-17 that the scripture is all we need. He said he had not shunned to declare the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27). In Acts 1:15, the text says there were about 120 disciples in the upper room. In Acts 2, the text does not say all 120 received the baptism of the HS. Tracking the antecedent of the pronouns in Acts 2:1-4 leads to Acts 1:26. The pronouns “them” and “they” refer to Matthias and the eleven, and can be traced even further back to the 11 in Luke 24:49. John 13 - 17 is tells of Jesus’ interaction with the Apostles at their Passover Feast. To say the baptism of the HS was for all is to read into scripture something that is not there. I am charged with using scripture to make judgments about those today who claim to be Apostles, who claim to have received the baptism of the HS, who claim to have miraculous gifts of the HS, and who claim that God speaks to them personally. I read the qualifications for being an Apostle, one of which is to have been with Jesus from the beginning. I know HS baptism was a promise, to whom it was given, and what its manifestations were -- that it was not a command to obey. I don’t see anyone being raised from the dead. I know Paul told the Ephesians, “there is one baptism” – those who deny it is water baptism may be “wresting the scriptures to their own destruction.” And, as I read recently on this forum, Scripture tells us we must live by “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God,” and I cannot know the words He “spoke” to someone else. Since God is no respecter of persons, I deny that he speaks to anyone other than through the written Word (Heb 1:1). Concerning your last statement, Tim. The text of Acts 10 does not say what you say, that “they were saved first, then baptized as a result of their salvation – not as a condition of their salvation.” Sincere students of the Word can read in Acts 10 and 11 that Cornelius was to be saved by the words Peter spoke, they can read the words he spoke to command water baptism, and they can make an educated guess that his words did not include reference to HS baptism because its occurrence astonished him. There are many scriptures I know that indicate we are to obey God by being baptized in water as a condition of our salvation. There is no reason for me not to believe it was also a condition for Cornelius salvation. I truly do consider the points you make from the scripture, and I see more and more how you support the doctrine you teach, but I’ve not seen any text that cannot be interpreted to agree with the pattern I’ve shown here. Thanks to all who take time to read. May God’s word fall the honest and good hearts (Luke 8:15) J. Elkins |
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40 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 133030 | ||
Post 1 of 3. Tim, couldn’t find 1000 chars to cut. In fact, I added! Mostly scripture quotes, though, which I wanted to leave in for ready reference. So, will reply in three parts. I speak carefully, lest I be found to misrepresent God’s word. I know that, according to James 3:1, those who assume to be teachers are subject to a stricter judgment. Can’t say more about Cornelius than what I’ve already posted recently. Will just have to leave the Forum readers with Acts chapters 10 and 11 and related passages, and let them judge whether or not I’ve spoken the truth. You say, “there is not a single verse that limits the Holy Spirit (HS) to the Apostles.” Even though readers are probably tired of this, I will post these words a 3rd time: In Acts 1:15, the text says there were about 120 disciples in the upper room. In Acts 2, the text does not say all 120 received the baptism of the HS. Tracking the antecedent of the pronouns in Acts 2:1-4 leads to Acts 1:26. The pronouns “them” and “they” refer to Matthias and the eleven, and can be traced even further back to the 11 in Luke 24:49. In John 14, Jesus promises the baptism of the HS to the Apostles at their Passover Feast. Nowhere have I said the HS is just for the Apostles (as you keep insisting), but I have said the baptismal measure of the HS and its attendant power was for them. Acts 8:18 and Acts 19 show the gifts of the HS were passed to others through the laying on of the Apostles hands. “And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money.” “And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them.’ In the New Testament, I see four levels of work done through man by the HS. 1) Jesus had the HS without measure. After His baptism, the Spirit descended on Him (Matt 3:16) . Col 2:9 says, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.” (Acts 10:38) The four gospels are full of descriptions of the HS working through the Christ. 2) The Apostles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), giving them remembrance of what Jesus had told them, guiding them into all truth, giving them power to preach the word, confirm the word with signs and wonders, establish the church, give spiritual gifts via laying on of their hands, and write scripture. Cornelius and household received the same manifestations of the Spirit, to show the Apostles that salvation was for the Gentiles as well as the Jews, but how could Jesus’ promise to “bring to remembrance and to guide into all truth” have been for Cornelius? The Kingdom came with power to the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost. The Kingdom did not come again at the time of Cornelius conversion, but it was extended to Gentiles. (Here I go, talking about Cornelius again!) 3) Members of the 1st century church received miraculous gifts of the HS from the laying on of the Apostles hands. Not sure if everyone received a gift, but text does indicate that no one got all 9 of the gifts (1 Cor 12:7-11.) Reason for these gifts was to “confirm the word” and maintain the integrity of the early church. First Cor 13 says these gifts would go away. 4) All Christians, universally, receive the gift of the HS, promised in Acts 2:38-39, reiterated in Acts 5:32, which says, “…And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the HS whom God has given to those who obey Him.” (Oops. Looks like we have to believe and then obey before we get the Spirit.) |
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