Results 81 - 100 of 145
|
||||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: ischus Ordered by Verse |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Psalm 22 Revisited......... | 1 Chronicles | ischus | 115979 | ||
Hello Everyone!!! I was reading through the different posts on Psalm 22 and noticed that most people said something to the extent that God turned his back on Jesus. I know that was a couple years ago, but does anyone still believe that this is true? I am not seeing how this can be an accurate interpretation of Jesus' death. Any ideas?????? |
||||||
82 | Psalm 22 Revisited......... | 1 Chronicles | ischus | 116004 | ||
jr8- Thank you so much for these words!!! Your insights are wonderful, and I agree with you here. I certainly don't think God turned his back on David, or on Jesus. Great thoughts! ischus |
||||||
83 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115317 | ||
Paulie, There is no verse in the bible where God is against interracial marriage. There are some verses in Ezra ch.9, but Ezra was incorrect in his views. God has always been ok with marriage between any male and female. ischus |
||||||
84 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115328 | ||
Steve, Ezra and his contemporaries were absolutely wrong in saying this. Read the Ezra 9 carefully with me, and please read all of my comments which I will have to post in multiple parts: 1) First of all, we must decide if this text is presciptive or desciptive... is this what God was commanding, or is it a description of Ezra's interpretation of the circumstances, and his reaction to it. I would like to prove to you that it is the latter, and that God took no part in this situation and prayer by Ezra. The reason it is in the bible is to show the ignorance and misinterpretation of the people at this time, so that it would never happen again. 2) Now, let's look at the context. As you know, the people have returned from exile, and they ant to be absolutely sure that this never happens to them again. What would be the sure way to avoid exile in the future? Get rid of the Gentiles, who led them astray, and who are just like the oppressors that they have just been freed of. This is their reasoning. However, as I will now point out, it was wrong and against God's will. |
||||||
85 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115329 | ||
PART 2 3) Let's look to verse 1. "Now when these things had been completed, the princes approached me, saying, "The people of Israel and the priests and the Levites have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands, according to their abominations, those of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians and the Amorites." *** and now compare this with Duet. 7:1. "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you..." --- Notice any differences? Ezra adds three groups, The Ammonites, Moabites, and Egyptians, to the original group in Deuteronomy. Plus, the original idolatrous groups in Dueteronomy no longer exist in the time after the return from exile. *** Ezra takes this verse out of context, adds three groups of people to the list, and misapplies it to the people of his time! 4) Now verse 2. "For they have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy race has intermingled with the peoples of the lands; indeed, the hands of the princes and the rulers have been foremost in this unfaithfulness." *** God's commandment in Deuteronomy 7 was in light of religious idolatry. BUT what is the concern of the people in Ezra 9? Not Religion, but RACE! Religion was not the issue here. They simply do not want to be mixing with other people. This is RACISM! --- Ezra, with a good heart and conscience, is utterly appalled with this news. He tears his clothes and is sits in astonishment. Then he offers a sicere, but unnecessary prayer to God. He wants so much to honor God, and he feels that sins have been committed. Ezra was sincere in his heart, but he was sincerely wrong! |
||||||
86 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115330 | ||
PART 3 5) As Ezra continues to misapply scripture in his prayer and address to the nation, we come to verse 12. "So now do not give your daughters to their sons nor take their daughters to your sons, and never seek their peace or their prosperity, that you may be strong and eat the good things of the land and leave it as an inheritance to your sons forever." *** Let's contrast this verse with an actual command from God, found in Jeremiah 29:6-9. "Take wives and become the fathers of sons and daughters, and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; and multiply there and do not decrease. 'Seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf; for in its welfare you will have welfare.'"For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, 'Do not let your prophets who are in your midst and your diviners deceive you, and do not listen to the dreams which they dream. 'For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them,' declares the LORD." --- Is this not the exact opposite of what Ezra is suggesting, followed by an ironic warning against a different message than this? Isn't it ironic that Ezra and Jeremiah both use 'shalom' (peace, well-being, prosperity), but in opposite commands? Which do we honor as God's revelation- Ezra's opinion, or Jeremiah's 'thus says the LORD?' I would take Jeremiah here. FOUR MORE VERSES, AND THEN I AM DONE. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LONG POST, BUT THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. :-) 6) Now, let's go to chapter 10 verses 2 and 3. "Shecaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, said to Ezra, 'We have been unfaithful to our God and have married foreign women from the peoples of the land; yet now there is hope for Israel in spite of this. So now let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives and their children, according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.'" AND ALSO VERSES 11 and 12. "Now therefore, make confession to the LORD God of your fathers and do His will; and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.' Then all the assembly replied with a loud voice, 'That's right! As you have said, so it is our duty to do.'" *** A couple of things need to pointed out here: Sheconiah seems to think he has a good idea here, and the people believe his words (again, like Jeremiah spoke of). However, it is intersting that THE ONLY PROPHET to EVER speak about mixed marriages is Malachi. Read ALL of Malachi chapter 2 in context and see what God thinks about it. *** Now, in verse 11, the people are told to separate (the term that later became the word for pharisee) from their wives...They are told to DIVORCE them!!! Is this from God? May it Never Be! --- Already we have seen in Malachi that God Hates Divorce! Let's also look to Paul, in 1 Corinthians 7. I will not quote the whole chapter, BUT READ IT. You know these verses! God would have never commanded the people to do ANY of the things found in Ezra 9 and 10! This passage it a representation of man's failure, and his abiblity to twist God's word into his own desires. I strongly believe that Ezra and the others are mistaken. They are SINCERE, but SINCERELY WRONG. ischus |
||||||
87 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115333 | ||
Paul, I don't mean to scare you off...It is great to meet you and welcome to the forum! That passage in Ezra is one of my most passionate issues, and I wish that it wasn't so easy to misinterpret. Steve will say that the issue in Ezra's day was also religious, since the "Caananites" were pagans, but this is not easily proven, nor was it the focus of Ezra 9 and 10. They were being racist. They didn't care who the people were. Plus, I don't think they would just jump back into idolatry right out of exile. I trust their judgement in the Gentile wives they took. I think my argument is very solid, with very little, if any conjecture. I just want you to know that God would never say anything like that, and it is perfectly fine to marry someone from a different race. God creates and loves all different kinds of people, and wants all of them to love one another in every way. ischus |
||||||
88 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115359 | ||
One more thing... Steve, I have read your user info and saw that you are an elder in the Church. I did not know this prior to my exegesis I gave to you on Ezra. I apologize for challenging you and I hope that you will forgive me for this. I do strongly believe that what I said about Ezra is absolutely true, however, I should have done it in a more respectful way. Please let me know what you think of my exegesis, and prayfully consider the implications of both of our views. Look forward to talking with you! ischus |
||||||
89 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115389 | ||
Emmaus, I wrote a three-part post with verse after verse accompanied with detailed, logical thoughts, and you come back with an inroduction to Ezra from a bible. Can you please take my stuff and work with it, rather than take someone else's and sprinkle it over the top to try and make it all taste better? You know that I respect you, but neither your bible introduction, nor your other postings have much in common with what I am presenting as evidence against Ezra, and for the rest of scripture. Your Brother, ischus |
||||||
90 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115398 | ||
Emmaus, First of all, I appreciate your Samaritan stuff, and I didn't mean to make it sound unimportant. Secondly, I thank you for your comments and I respect your answer, since it is a logical argument with textual evidence. Obviously I do not agree, but this is beside the point. I just wanted to know that you took my stuff seriously, which you did, and I respect that, as well as your conclusions. A few questions, though: 1)Can you give me some additional info about your bracketed scribal gloss- I am curious 2)How often has the Talmud proven to be correct about authors of the OT books? 3)Did I not address the issue of the prophets with the Jeremiah passages, as well as with Malachi, who was Ezra's contemporary? 4) Don't you think that the hand of the Lord was on all of his people, especially those he chose to lead? Is it not possible for a good man to make a bad mistake? ischus |
||||||
91 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115399 | ||
One more thing......... Could you give some examples of: "The whole history of the OT is strewn with cases of the Israelties falling away from faith because of falling in with pagan women and being influenced by their religions." besides the lone reference to Solomon? |
||||||
92 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115537 | ||
EdB and Emmaus, I agree that God does not want people to practice the worship of foreign gods, but you need to look at to things here: First, God is not against marrying who are polytheistic- look at Solomon, David, Moses, Jacob, and others. The sins of Solomon had nothing to do with his marriage, but with his falling away from God instead of showing God to his wives. Second, The passages that you give in Nehemiah are descriptive of the people, not prescriptive Words of God. This is the case for many of the other verses as well. When you look at narritive material, you need to take into account who is speaking, God or man. |
||||||
93 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115538 | ||
Steve, After Israel returns from exile, the is never another account of them falling into idol worship or polytheism. I am sure that those who took wives were well aware of what they were doing, and were fully commited to Yahweh when they married. Also, Do you have anything to say about the divorce that was "commanded" or the fact that God never has a problem with people marrying Gentiles as long as they remain faithful to him? |
||||||
94 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115546 | ||
Emmaus, I appreciate your post here, and I respect your interpretation of Ezra. We simply differ here and that's ok. I really do believe in everything you have said about the troubles that these type of mariages can cause, and I am with you on all of your points. MY only point is that in the book of Ezra, God was not asking them to divorce their wives, and you have seen my reasoning for this. I think you are right in requesting another topic here. We have both done our part, and its time to move on. SO...... Here are some other books/topics that I enjoy to discuss: -Ps.22 and Jesus on the cross -1 Cor 2 and the HS -Divorce in the bible :) -Law and Grace in the OT -Ecclesiastes -The Pentateuch What are some things that you have on your mind? By the way, I used to have my age posted on my user information, but I have taken it off recently because of some comments that were directed towards my age. I am old enough to read, and young enough to still get around, so I think I'm doing pretty well. :) ischus |
||||||
95 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115551 | ||
I would also be willing to discuss the theology of baptism (and its origin, significance of John's baptism, Jesus' baptism,etc.), but only from an exegetical standpoint from specific sciptures... I don't care for jumping around the bible and supplying invalid conclusions for salvation, nor do I care for classic theologies lacking in study and logic. ischus |
||||||
96 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115564 | ||
EdB, ---"Either the Bible is the inspired word of God or it is not. I believe it is the inspired word." ***Amen, it is!!! What you fail to distinguish between is the "inspiration" of God and the "revelation" of God. All of scripture is inspired by God, yes, but not all is His revelation. The bible is full of texts that are not "thus says the Lord" texts. Ezra 9 is one of them. God inspired this to be in the bible exactly because Ezra's words were not his revelation. It was to teach this exact lesson of taking scripture out of context to make it say what you want it to, just like everyone is doing here. ---"Marriage is covenant and you see in this passage God strictly forbids any covenant. Giving the reason that once they do they will start messing with pagan gods. It is not real hard to see." ***What god did Jacob's wives worship? What god did David's wives worship? What god did Solomon's wives worship? Did God have a problem with these marriages? What nationality were the wives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob's sons, Moses, David, Solomon....? Did God have a problem with these marriages? The answer is no. What he has a problem with is worshiping other gods, not believing in them. ***What is the first of the ten commandments? "Have no other gods before me." Why not say 'don't believe in other gods,' or 'don't worship other gods,' or 'don't associate with people who believe in other gods?' BECAUSE HE WAS FINE WITH THEM JUST HAVING HIM FIRST. HE DIDN'T EXPECT MONOTHEISM. HE DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT HE DIDN'T EXPECT EVERYONE TO STOP BELIEVING IN OTHER GODS. HE KNEW THEY WOULD MESS UP; HE JUST WANTED THEM TO KEEP HIM FIRST. SOLOMON FAILED TO DO THIS. MANY PEOPLE DID NOT FAIL TO KEEP GOD FIRST. DO WE PUT OTHER THINGS BEFORE GOD???? YES. DOES GOD WANT THIS???? NO. BUT WHEN IT HAPPENS, HE WANTS US TO REFOCUS AND PUT HIM FIRST AGAIN. ---"If you want to believe differently fine but don’t insult our intelligence or the word of God by trying to convince us you right." ***Thank you for this comment. I just can't support something like divorce or racism, both of which clearly insult the word and nature of God. ischus |
||||||
97 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115569 | ||
Paulie, Before you make up your mind, please read my post #115564 by entering this number in the quick search box. ischus |
||||||
98 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115570 | ||
By the way, are you sure that Ezra even wrote this text while under inspiration, or is this a record of his journal written by another person? ischus |
||||||
99 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115576 | ||
I truly believe that the bible is God's work, but are you going to deny the fact that many additions, changes, and curruptions have been involved over the thousands of years of translation? In the current bible we have, there are hundreds of variant texts on hundreds of verses, and several entire sections that are either misplaced, mistranslated, or completely false and not a part of the original MSS. God has his part in the bible...so does man. Let's be honest here. I am not suggesting anything other than what I said here- don't read into it. The bible is God's word. God is sovereign. ischus |
||||||
100 | Intermarriage | Ezra 9:2 | ischus | 115577 | ||
EdB, No offense taken, and I make the same apology for any rudeness on my part. God did give David all of Saul's wives, who were mostly pagan. Anyway, I think we know where each other stands here, and I respect everything you have said, and I will not press this issue any longer. Thank you for your patience and willingness to discuss. Praise God for his grace in every way! ischus |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] Next > Last [8] >> |