Results 1 - 15 of 15
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: fallen4shell Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Not Specified | fallen4shell | 218648 | ||
Where in the Bible does it ever command/imply that "lost" people should be part of the church (church specifically referring to a group of people coming together to worship OR collectively referring to the body of believers in any given area)? In old testament times were the heathen allowed to sacrifice (or worship their own gods) in the temple? Have you ever seen a verse in the new testament where Paul or Peter or any of the apostles talked about recruiting unbelievers to come and worship with the believers? In fact, is not the very DEFINITION of the church a body of believers? How then can a professed "unbeliever" be in any way part of something that, by it's very definition, excludes him. It seems to me that bringing someone who does not believe in God to a service which is [supposedly] set aside to WORSHIP God is, to say the least, counterproductive for both us and them. So why do we do it then? Well, I suppose that the easiest and most common answer to that question is so that they can hear the message of Christ and then [hopefully] accept Him. While that seems at first glance to be a worthwhile goal, we should take a minute to think about what we are sacrificing for it. Have not so many of our "worship" services become solely dedicated to "getting people saved" instead of focusing on coorperately worshiping OUR amazing God? Please understand that I do not question the explicit instructions given for us to preach and teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, but if I remember correctly Jesus commanded his disciples [followers] to GO OUT and preach the gospel to all nations and to GO OUT and baptize, etc. He sent people out with instructions to teach and heal and baptize, not to invite unbelievers to worship with them in the temple (or anywhere else for that matter). What sense does it make for us then to invite the unsaved to come to our worship services? It seems to me that evangelism should be a very active and EXTERNAL endeavor rather than the passive internalization that we have made it. Shouldn't the unbeliever first believe in Christ before they are asked to worship Him? When and why did this whole practice of "inviting lost people to church" become so popular among Christians? Was this ever mentioned as a legitimate strategy for converting people to become followers of Christ? |
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2 | authors of the bible books? | Bible general Archive 4 | fallen4shell | 218607 | ||
You can type in the name of any book of the Bible at www.wikipedia.org and you will get a wealth of somewhat objective information about that specific book, it's cannonicity and relationship to the rest of the Bible and the supposed author and time period in which is was written. | ||||||
3 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218652 | ||
Where in the Bible does it ever command/imply that "lost" people should be part of the church (church specifically referring to a group of people coming together to worship OR collectively referring to the body of believers in any given area)? In old testament times were the heathen allowed to sacrifice (or worship their own gods) in the temple? Have you ever seen a verse in the new testament where Paul or Peter or any of the apostles talked about recruiting unbelievers to come and worship with the believers? In fact, is not the very DEFINITION of the church a body of believers? How then can a professed "unbeliever" be in any way part of something that, by it's very definition, excludes him. It seems to me that bringing someone who does not believe in God to a service which is [supposedly] set aside to WORSHIP God is, to say the least, counterproductive for both us and them. So why do we do it then? Well, I suppose that the easiest and most common answer to that question is so that they can hear the message of Christ and then [hopefully] accept Him. While that seems at first glance to be a worthwhile goal, we should take a minute to think about what we are sacrificing for it. Have not so many of our "worship" services become solely dedicated to "getting people saved" instead of focusing on coorperately worshiping OUR amazing God? Please understand that I do not question the explicit instructions given for us to preach and teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, but if I remember correctly Jesus commanded his disciples [followers] to GO OUT and preach the gospel to all nations and to GO OUT and baptize, etc. He sent people out with instructions to teach and heal and baptize, not to invite unbelievers to worship with them in the temple (or anywhere else for that matter). What sense does it make for us then to invite the unsaved to come to our worship services? It seems to me that evangelism should be a very active and EXTERNAL endeavor rather than the passive internalization that we have made it. Shouldn't the unbeliever first believe in Christ before they are asked to worship Him? When and why did this whole practice of "inviting lost people to church" become so popular among Christians? Was this ever mentioned as a legitimate strategy for converting people to become followers of Christ? |
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4 | "lost" or "unbeliever" | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218724 | ||
If this question is addressed to me: by "lost" or "unbeliever" I was simply referring to those who do not profess to be Christians. I make no judgement as to the authenticity of another's salvation. | ||||||
5 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218725 | ||
Thank you, Tim, for your response. I don't interpret 1 Cor. 14:23-24 to mean that there were actually unbelievers participating in worship. Paul seems to be posing a hypothetical scenario saying in effect "if someone saw us doing this who didn't know what it is all about they would think we were crazy!". In my mind this actually seems to imply the opposite truth to what you have suggested, namely that unbeliever had no understanding (nor were they expected to) of what when on among these meetings of believers. |
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6 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218726 | ||
For my part, I meant in no regard that we should limit worship meetings to believers who have never or in any way drifted from God (would not we all be excluded?). I sincerely believe that ANY person who professes to be a follower of Christ (regardless of how effectively) should in no way be hindered from coorperate worship and I would furthermore insist that our worship services shoulr FOCUS on teaching such people how to more consistently, truly, and sincerely worship God rather than focusing our meetings on "selling jesus" to non-believers [who may or may not be present] while simultaneously neglecting the need of those who are ALREADY Christians for encouragement, exortation, teaching, discipleship, etc. Does that clarify my position at all? I feel like my original question has somehow been grossly misunderstood. | ||||||
7 | let your light shine in dark places | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218727 | ||
Thank you, Searcher, for your input. "Every knee will bow." YES! praise God this is a great and awsome truth! I couldn't agree more that this is an act of worship...but if a person bow their knee before the Father are they classified as an unbeliever? Also, there is still no mention in any of those verses of such conversion taking place within the context of a meeting of [those who are already] believers. As for Romans 10:13-15 it seems abundantly clear to me through those verses (and many, many others) that God expects us to GO OUT and preach the gospel...there seems to be no mention anywhere that I can find about gathering up lost people and BRINGING THEM TO the preacher to hear or BRINGING THEM TO meetings of believers who have gathered to worship the God they have already been saved by. I agree wholeheartedly that we cannot rely (nor should we) on people coming to church. Christ, indeed, has instructed us to let our light SHINE OUT INTO DARK PLACES! Did Christ instruct us to try and get everyone to come join us under the bushel so that they, too, can see the light? I would submit that our focus should be to take our light OUTSIDE the "four walls" and let it shine throughout ALL THE EARTH. Thus, back to my original question....where in scripture do we see any support for this notion that we should be trying to get lost people to come back and join us "inside the four walls"? |
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8 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218728 | ||
Edd, thank you for your response. Again, I feel quite misunderstood. I believe that BY ALL MEANS we should be proclaiming to the uttermost parts of the earth the GOOD NEWS of Jesus Christ. I in no way meant to imply that we should neglect the "sick" or keep the salvation experience all to ourselves with no thought to those OUT THERE who desperately need him as well [though isn't that what we do alot...remain safe within our own four walls content with the mindset that "if they want christ they can come in here and get him"?]. Yes, I am in wholehearted agreement with your statement that "The babes in Christ are in the Church/members body of Christ as well." A "babe in Christ" is one who I would consider to have already been "born again" and therefore is indeed a Christian. In my opinion, when believers meet together for "church services" the focus should be on GROWING our own relationships with Christ and discipling those who are still babes so that they can eventually be fed with the MEAT that they need to be strong instead of expecting them to survive on MILK for the rest of their lives while we spend our time together with them focusing on someone ELSE [unbeliever] who may or may not have even come to the meeting of believers. |
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9 | Should "lost" people come to church? | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218729 | ||
Great post, Yen, thank you! I agree with what you have said, though I'm not sure if I agree with what you are saying. The sheep, I would assert, are the believers. Indeed the job of the Shepherd is to LEAD AND GUIDE the sheep! The "lost sheep", in my opinion refers not to one who has never been saved, but rather to one who has wandered from the fold and is in need of the shepherd to lead him back in. This should most definitely be one of the roles that the modern "pastor" and group of believers plays in the life of a wayward believer. I am in agreement with your analogy in this context. |
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10 | "lost" or "unbeliever" | Luke 5:31 | fallen4shell | 218731 | ||
St. Francis said: "Always preach Christ; use words when necessary." I think alot of times proclaiming Christ throught the way we live is a much more effective approach than trying to "preach at" them and tell them how they ought to live. I sympathize with you and I hope that you are able to let the love of Christ show through you and that your friends are able to come to the knowledge of Him through your life and example. Blessings my friend! As to inviting them to church, I don't contend that it is impossible for a lost person to be led to Christ through coming to church, I just wonder if it is the best way to go about doing things...for either US or THEM. |
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11 | What humans compiled The Bible | 2 Peter | fallen4shell | 218612 | ||
The term for the specific works that were selected to be part of [and now compose] our modern day "Holy Bible" is the biblical "canon". The group of individuals who took it upon themselves to confirm which works were "inspired" by God and which ones were not was a group of catholic leaders from the 1500's (about 255 members total, including four papal legates, two cardinals, three patriarchs, twenty-five archbishops, and 168 bishops) which convened at the "Council of Trent." |
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12 | the angels that sinned | Jude | fallen4shell | 218602 | ||
As you may or may not be aware, the original text of the Bible did not have chapter and verse divisions, nor did it contain punctuation...all of that was added later. I believe that this portion of scripture (in Jude) that you are questioning is actually mis-divided and that the first part of verse 6 actually is the end of the thought in verse 5. The "angels" (aka..."messengers") that Jude speaks of are Moses and Aaron and those who "kept not their first estate" refers back to the well documented story about the rebellion of Korah [see Numbers 16:1-40] which Jude's readers would have known well...and which he alluded too again in vs. 11. If you read the story those who were associated with Korah and rebelled against God's messengers eventually, just as Jude references, were quite literally swallowed up by the earth and are thenceforth held in the darkness until judgement. It's quite an interesting story. Translated properly, the greek text should read something like this: (5) I want to remind you -- though you once knew this -- how the sovereign Lord, after delivering the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe His messengers. (6) They who were not satisfied with the positions they were first given, but left their assigned office, He has kept in constant chains of darkness until the great judgment day. |
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13 | Translation/Study of Jude | Jude | fallen4shell | 218603 | ||
I recently did a study/translation of Jude and this is what the Lord gave me. God has opened up the book of Jude and through this study what Jude is saying makes much more sense to me now than ever before. TRANSLATION OF JUDE: (1) Jude, servant of Jesus the Anointed, brother of James, to those who have been set apart by God the Father, and who have been appointed and kept in the anointing of Jesus. (2) Mercy, peace, and love be increased unto you. (3) Dearest friends, I have been making every effort to write to you as quickly as possible concerning the profaning of our Salvation. I feel that it is my obligation to write to you and urge you to continue the struggle to surrender unto holiness as you were once convicted to do. (4) There are certain men settled quietly among you who are ungodly; these men use the grace of our God as an excuse for lawlessness, and refuse to be in submission to the one lord, who is God, and to our lord Jesus the Anointed. The judgment of these men has already been written long ago. (5) Of this I want to remind you: -- though you once knew -- how the sovereign Lord, after delivering the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe His messengers. [see Numbers 16:1-40] (6) They who were not satisfied with the positions they were first given, but left their assigned office, He has kept in constant chains of darkness until the great judgment day. (7) How Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in similar manner afterward, having prostituted themselves and departed unto unnatural flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the fullness of the judgment of fire. (8) Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and deprecate things which should be revered. (9) Michael the chief messenger, when disputing with the accuser about the body of Moses, hesitated; he did not dare to bring against him a berating judgment, but rather said, "the Lord rebuke you." [see Zec 3] (10) But these men discredit things that they have no knowledge of; their understanding is limited by what they sense physically, as primal beasts. (11) Wretched are they! For they have followed in the footsteps of Cain, and are overflowing with the hypocrisy of Balaam seeking reward, and have been destroyed in the rebellion of Korah. (12) These men are as hazardous rocks in the sea [regarding ships] to your feasts of charity; they feast together with you, fearlessly leading themselves to pasture. They are clouds without water, being wisped to and fro by the wind. They are withering trees who die twice, first they are barren of fruit and then they are plucked up by their roots. (13) They are as wild, untamed waves of the sea which, by their foam, manifest their own disgrace. They are as deceptive as the stars, fully concealed in the clouds of darkness. (14) Enoch, the seventh generation descendant of Adam, prophesied of these men, saying: "Watch and see! The Lord is coming with a myriad of his holy ones (15) to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all that are corrupt among them of all their corrupt deeds by which they are corrupted, and of all the harsh irreverence with which sinners have spoken against Him." (16) These men among you are grumblers and complainers, being led by selfish desires; their mouths are overflowing with words of admiration toward others, but only to gain advantage for themselves. (17) Remember, dear friends, the words of the apostles of our lord Jesus the Anointed, (18) who foretold you that in the last time there would be mockers, who would be driven by their own wicked desires. (19) These be they who separate themselves as natural, not having the spirit. (20) But you, dear friends, should build yourselves up by your holy conviction, praying in the Holy Spirit, (21) keeping yourselves in the love of God, and looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus the Anointed unto fullness of life. (22) And of some have mercy, refraining from judgment. (23) And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire [brand plucked out of the fire? Zec 3]; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (24) Now to him that is able to keep you from falling and [make you] to stand faultless before the presence of his glory with great joy, (25) to the only wise God our Saviour be glory, majesty, dominion and power, both now and always. Amen. |
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14 | Translation/Study of Jude | Jude | fallen4shell | 218611 | ||
Due to the context of the passage and after careful study and prayer I am thoroughly convinced that Jude is pointing in verse five ["those who believed not the messengers"] to the rebellion of Korah. I am by no means an expert in Greek, most of the "translating" I have done here is simply through careful exegesis of the context and specific words via strong's, lexicons, and other places in scripture where the specific greek words were used and how they were translated. I also lend much credence to the hypothesis that the original new testament was written in Hebrew, not Greek, and therefore the greek texts would simply be translations of the original and therefore pretty open to error and interpretation. I do understand that this makes alot of people uneasy (feeling that scripture in this light can be interpreted too many different ways) and my only response to that is that without the assistance of the Holy Spirit even the most plain english can be misinterpreted anyway so I tend to rely quite heavily on HIM to reveal to me HIS intention for any given passage. With all that said, the specific conjunction that you refer to "te" does not pose a problem for my translation when the punctuation is moved to include the beginning of verse 6 as part of verse 5. If you notice in the greek the conjunction comes AFTER the word "messengers" but in many english translations it has been moved to the beginning of verse 6. If we left the conjuction AFTER "messengers" and replaced punctuation and verse devisions in the KJV then it would read: "...how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not the angels(messengers), and which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." I hope this helps. |
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15 | Translation/Study of Jude | Jude | fallen4shell | 218647 | ||
Thank you, Tim, for your response. I am quite obviously completely illiterate when it comes to the grammatical aspects of Greek. I think it would probably be fair to say that my "translation" of scripture could more accurately be dubbed "interpretational paraphrase". My objective when I set out to translate the book of Jude (or any scripture for that matter) was not so much to create a literal word for word greek to english translation but simply to try to better understand what I can learn about God from those scriptures. Thank you for the information that you have provided. I'm going to do some research on this word and it's usage throughout the new testament and see if I can get a better understanding of how it should be translated and what Jude is really saying. |
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