Results 21 - 40 of 59
|
||||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: chesed Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128739 | ||
I see what you mean. I am sorry that I can't agree with you here. I know what Jesus said about himself. I believe what he said about himself. I also believe that there were other people that the OT spoke about. Ultimately, the bible is about Jesus. We agree here. I simply say that many OT prophesies were also fufilled by someone else in that time. Some OT prophesies were not about Jesus, and they were never fulfilled. Some prophesies were not ONLY about Jesus, yet Jesus fulfilled them. Some passages were not about Jesus, yet he gave greater meaning to them, thus 'fulfilling' them. Some prophesies were ONLY about Jesus, and he did fulfill them. | ||||||
22 | to the forum... | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128736 | ||
No problem here. I believe exactly what you have stated, brother. I am saying it in a different way than you are used to hearing it, aparently, but that is what I am saying- I assure you. | ||||||
23 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128735 | ||
Hi GB, The three conditions that you mention for salvation: living right, sacrificing, and obeying the word, are in my opinion inaccurate. IF those are the conditions for salvation, none of us would make it. Salvation was only by God's grace. period. They did nothing to earn or merit it. As for your other comments, I agree. And thanks for getting us back to to original point that an OT Christian is not logical. However, and OT Yahwist is...(implications abound) |
||||||
24 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128732 | ||
EdB, to state it simply, knowledge does not bring salvation- Jesus does. Yes, they were forgiven. Yes, Jesus is the reason. I am saying that if we did not have the NT, we would not be as clear on this fact. I am looking at this from an ancient perspective. They had faith in Yahweh. In effect, this was faith in Jesus...but how could they have known that? chesed |
||||||
25 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128726 | ||
Please understand that I believe that Jesus is the only reason for grace and forgiveness. However, I think that those in the OT were forgiven in the same way we are: in light of the sacrifice of Jesus. We don't have to be lliving at that point in history to receive that grace. God knew from the moment sin entered the earth that Jesus would one day die for all sin. Because of this, he was able to forgive in the Old Testament and in the New. It is like someone who is in debt, but a rich man takes him to the bank and tells the bank that he will pay this debt the next day. The day that they go to the bank, the debtful man is relieved of his debt, even though the debt was not paid at that moment in time. The rich man was good for it, the bank knew he had the money and would pay it, so they were able to give the poor man freedom from his debt. | ||||||
26 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128725 | ||
EdB, I will certainly do this. Please allow me some time to get some thoughts together. I have not yet finished my own systematic theology :) |
||||||
27 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128724 | ||
EdB, It is interesting that you are concerned with the historical context of Luther. I was simply applying it to our situation because it has similarities. Are you saying that your theology is more accurate than mine? I would never say that because I realize that we are all without complete understanding. I have many systematic theologies. chesed |
||||||
28 | to the forum... | Not Specified | chesed | 128718 | ||
Hello, forum: I would just like to say that I really appreciate your respectful conversation and friendship. This is a rare thing these days. I know I have mostly been involved in one specific topic, but don't let that determine your impression of me. I really am a Christian- I promise. :) chesed |
||||||
29 | to the forum... | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128727 | ||
Hello, forum: I would just like to say that I really appreciate your respectful conversation and friendship. This is a rare thing these days. I know I have mostly been involved in one specific topic, but don't let that determine your impression of me. I really am a Christian- I promise. :) chesed |
||||||
30 | to the forum... | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128728 | ||
Hello, forum: I would just like to say that I really appreciate your respectful conversation and friendship. This is a rare thing these days. I know I have mostly been involved in one specific topic, but don't let that determine your impression of me. I really am a Christian- I promise. :) chesed |
||||||
31 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128716 | ||
EdB, sorry...I understand what you are saying, but not what you are meaning. could you please say that again? I don't uderstand the difference between what I said and what you have said. chesed |
||||||
32 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128713 | ||
Mark, that is a perfectly acceptable view, and a very common one. I agree with you, with Peter, with Jesus my Lord, etc. I have not ever said that Jesus is not the fulfillment of the OT. I say that the OT was not only about Jesus. God spoke to people in their time, spoke to their situation, and gave then a relevant message. I know this is difficult to understand, but the OT is not a bunch of scripture references to back up one's NT theology. It stands alone. Jesus lived a life which was perfect. He fulfilled the Law. He did many things which sounded just like something that happened in the OT. He even did things that the prophets wrote about which no one else in history ever did. All of this is shown in the NT. We agree on this. What we disagree on is the issue of whether or not there was an OT context and OT fulfillment of prophesy. I think there usually was. Prophesy does not have to be fulfilled in one person or event alone. Jesus may not have been the first fulfillment, but he was the ultimate fulfillment. chesed |
||||||
33 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128712 | ||
Hi EdB, the sin sacrifice was to restore the relationship between God and the sinner. The day of Atonement was for the same reason, but in a communal sense, rather than an individual sense. But over and above all this, the sacrifice was to show the seriousness of sin, and the conseqeunces of it.(death). About Hebrews, the shedding of blood for forgivenss was in Jesus, not in animal sacrifice. "Where did you get there was no sacrifice available if someone broke one of the ten commandments?" I get this from reading the bible, and from noticing just that. Do you have an example contrary to my belief? I am not saying that I am correct...I am just saying that I have not seen an example of this, and that in fact when there was direct defiance towards God, no sacrifice was offered by the repentant person. chesed |
||||||
34 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128710 | ||
Good question. I would say that the OT was written for those in the OT. I don't think that God made his people go be slaves in Egypt for 400 years just so Jesus could fulfill a verse in the Bible. | ||||||
35 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128709 | ||
Yes...and centuries of Christian teaching are not always right, my friend. I think Luther would have something to say about that... | ||||||
36 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128708 | ||
That is why Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment, my friend. By the way, I said "most scholars" and not "I" believe that it was Simon. On the other hand, Simon did do what Zechariah 9 says, as recorded in I Macc 13. I certainly agree with you that he was NEVER as good as Jesus. Praise God for that! | ||||||
37 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128701 | ||
By the way, Is it just me, or is everyone seeking to put a label on me? I do not subscibe to any one denominational (or Catholic) theology...I simply have come to some conclusions over many years of study. I can understand some of your frustrations...my wife has the same difficulty with trying to pin me down. I just believe what I believe. :) |
||||||
38 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128700 | ||
That is not what I said. I believe that in just about every one of my posts that I have clearly stated that Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT. What I am saying is that there are very few direct 1-1 correlating prophesies about Jesus in the OT which no body else could have fulfilled. Most of the things in the NT where Jesus fulfills a prophesy are prophesy by analogy, type-antitype, etc. There is nothing wrong about this. I don't think that this takes away from Jesus as being divine...I am simply trying to show that the 1-1 direct prophesies about Jesus (eg.Isa 53)are more rare than the other types (Hos.11, Isa.7, etc)which were not originally about Jesus, but were later 'fulfilled' by him. This is not heretical or anything like that. It is just practical, Biblical Theology with respect to the OT context. I believe the same things that you do about Jesus..I just think that the Jesus we know in the NT does not need to be read into the OT as much as we like for him to be. He is just fine as he is in the NT. blessings, chesed |
||||||
39 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128697 | ||
EdB, I am not saying that David didn't want to offer a sacrifice- if he knew that a sacrifice would forgive him then he would have. There were no sacrifices available to offer when someone broke the 10 comandments or sinned intentionally towards God. This is why in Ps.51 he appeals to God's mercy and compassion, rather than a sacrifice. Look at Numbers 14 when the people rebel against God. Did they offer sacrifices? No. They couldn't. They were left to the mercy of God, who forgave them because of the intercession of Moses. I completely agree that forgiveness is different than consequences. This is clear throughout the whole Bible. |
||||||
40 | Christians before Jesus came | Bible general Archive 2 | chesed | 128695 | ||
Hi Tim, Like I said, Jesus did fulfill Zech 9, but that is not who God was talking about in Zech.9. Jesus fulfilled (gave full and ulitimate meaning) to the whole OT...that is not what I am talking about. I am simply explaining the original intent of the OT passage. Matthew 2 and Hosea 11 might illuminate my point more clearly. In Hos.11, God clearly was not talking about Jesus. He was talking about the literal community of Israel, whom He brought up out of Egypt. Jesus was also called out of Egypt, so he in effect fulfills this, but God was not talking about Jesus in Hos.11- He was talking about the Hebrew nation whom He saved from Egyptian bondage. In reference to Micah 5, I think that I stated somewhere else that these Messianic hopes of a Priest and King (and Prophet and Great Teacher) were developed in the Inter-Testamental period. Take a look at CD (the Damascus Document) xii.23; CD xix.10-11; CD xx.1ff; 1QS ix.10-11, and also the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs. Zech.4:14, Haggai 2:20ff were seed passages for the messiah theology of the 1st century, which were developed in the Inter-Tesamental period as shown above. This is why we have all of these expected figures in the gospels which were never spoken of in the OT. (cf.Jn.1:19-22) Joel 2:28ff was the seed passage for the prophet theology of the 1st Century, and was developed in the IT period as well. (cf.Jn.4:25) [footnote: I do not consider the IT works to be inspired, but they did have a large influence on the 1st Century view of the Messiah.] chesed |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 1 2 3 ] Next > Last [3] >> |