Results 141 - 150 of 150
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: atdcross Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | Sickness Brings God Glory? - 2 | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165881 | ||
Unfortunately, I neglected to post that I was answering (see ID#165880) in response to Mark D Seyler's post ID#164082, Tue 12/13/05, 8:09pm. I could not edit it in so...sorry about that. |
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142 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165908 | ||
Hi Shythiyl, I apologize, but I don't understand your comment. |
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143 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165914 | ||
Thanks for your response, Mark. Please allow me to leave a response also for "other readers to ponder". Please note, although we may know where each other stands, there is no problem (on my part, at least), since no one is trying to convince the other, to exchange views on the different texts that support each other's position. 1. In accordance to Eph 5:20, does anyone ever thank God that children are being raped, that the cancer patient is going through pain? 2.If (1) sickness is God's will for believers and (2) sickness brings God glory, why (1) pray for healing in the first place, and (2) if we do get healed, why not pray we get sick again? 3. The good things that come out of affliction (1) do not come out automatically, (2) depend on the person's response. Suffering can either bring a person nearer or further from God. Believing that God's intention is that his children be healthy is not a matter of "humanity" but a matter of God's word (Psalm 103:3; 3 John 2; Malachi 4:2; Matthew 7:11). From my perspective, believing God's desire is to heal all who are sick (Jesus' practice in the Gospels) and for us to be healthy is, at least, one thing that "the Sovereign Lord has determined will make me like Jesus". There are many verses in the Bible where God grants healing. In all seriousness (there is no sarcasm intended at all), (1) I have not yet found a verse in the Bible where God promises sickness. (2) Matt 4:23 does not read that Jesus went making people sick. |
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144 | Plain or Intended Meaning? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165922 | ||
Not being a scholar of the language, allow me to explain my point of view, which does not necessarily disagree with your view except in your definition of hatred as "a strong dislike" or "not emotional hatred." It seems a correct understanding of this verse may center on the word translated "hate". Robertson: "Hateth...An old and very strong verb...to hate, detest. The orientals use strong language..." (Word Pictures). Evans: "This may be an example of the Semitic expression of preference," however, "it may also express Luke's rigorous outlook" (Saint Luke). Liefeld: "It is important to understand the ancient Near Eastern expression without blunting its force" (Expositor's Bible Commentary). The word translated "hate" is the same used in Matt 5:43; 24:10; Luke 6:22,27; John 3:20; 7:7; 15:23; Rom 9:13; Rev 2:6,15 (cf. Young, Strong). Vine: "to hate...(a) of malicious and unjustifiable feelings...(c) of relative preference..." (Dictionary) Lenski: "Instead of leaving [the Greek word] in its true sense 'to hate' it is generally reduced, even 'watered down till the point is gone'." (St. Luke's Gospel; his further remarks are quite interesting, which is somewhat a different perspective than what we are discussing but it makes good sense to me). The point is that, according to above references, Luke chose to use a very strong Greek word (as it seems the English translation rightly conveys) to express Jesus' teaching. I concede that Luke's readers may have recognized that the verse spoke of preference but that just proves the point; they knew not to take it literally. There was an intended meaning in the word "hate" other than as stated. Therefore, it seems, Luke did not intend for his readers to understand Jesus "exactly" from what was stated via the normal meaning of the Greek word "hate" but some other meaning is intended. A mere conjecture is offered with reference to Jesus' use of the Aramaic since I do not know what word he used (only because I don't know Aramaic). However, if it was equivalent to the strength of the Greek word, the same can be said: Jesus knew exactly what he was saying but exactly what he meant was something different from what was exactly stated. The fact that his hearers readily knew he took the word to mean something other than what its literal meaning might suggest only supports this view. Please note, Mark, with all due respect, you apprehended the text not on the basis of the word itself but on the basis of (1) a form of teaching understood within the culture; (2) other relevant verses that bring light Luke's understanding of Jesus' statement; (3) in relation to other texts about the command to love, which I am not against doing. However, as far as I can tell, you did not come to understand what Jesus meant by the "plain reading" of the word "hate," which is, as Robertson states, in Greek is a "very strong verb...to hate, detest." One last point. Again, I think we make the Western mistake of dichotomizing persons, a thing it seems unheard of in the Eastern world like "emotional" hatred; if one "hated" or "loved" it was understood as being done with one's whole person. I hope I explained my point clearly. |
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145 | Plain or Intended Meaning? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166011 | ||
I don't quite get what you're attempting to say by your response... | ||||||
146 | Plain or Intended Meaning? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166013 | ||
Hi Kalos. Please forgive me for commenting that I did not know what you were attempting to show by your response. Anyway, I'm cut-pasting your post for future reference. Thanks and, I am so sorry for the mix-up. In the first place, I didn't even notice you were responding to Mark (I need glasses for my glasses), and in the second place, I was reading quite fast just to pick out what I wanted to cut-paste to Word and respond later (way too much coffee). |
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147 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166460 | ||
Thanks for the encouraging word. Job 2:10: (1) We know from the prologue that it is Satan who is buffeting Job, not God (although God allowed it). (2) Job’s experience is unique. It does not reflect the answer as to why believers, in general, suffer. With respect to your comment, God “can and does heal all whom he desires” and all whom he desires to heal are his people through their faith and obedience. This is clearly demonstrated in Jesus’ ministry. As far as examples outside of the Bible, Jim Elliot was martyred, as is the way of every believer who follows Jesus; it is also a promised experience for all who seriously take up their Cross. As someone said, the call of the Gospel is the call to die. However, Elliot is not an example of the idea that God wants his children to be sick. Joni Erickson’s condition does not necessarily support any scriptural truth; the fact that she (or anyone else) is a paraplegic does not necessarily warrant the idea that such is God’s will. Please find in the Bible where it says or clear instances that show God (a) blesses by making his chosen people sick, (b) desires believers to be sick, (c) promises or, at least, warns he will not heal those who believe and are obedient to him. Timothy’s sickness or weakness was healed by proper diet; divine intervention was not necessary. The idea that the apostle Paul had a sickness that was not healed is conjecture. Throughout Church history it is recorded that God has been healing. Eusebius asserts that idolaters “were now liberated by the power of Christ through the teaching and miracles of his messengers.” Origen (c.200) stated that Christians practiced casting out demons. Tertullian claimed, “the noblest Christian life is ‘to exorcise evil spirits – to perform cures – to live to God’.” “2000 years of scholarship and exegesis” apparently missed a lot! I agree it is not God’s desire that His people be sick. Sickness is permitted primarily as the consequence of sin and the judgment of God against it. As far as “numerous examples” of God not healing: Job 2:10 is covered above. It is mere conjecture to interpret 2 Cor 12:8-9 as referring to sickness. I agree he was sick, but where in 2 Timothy does it say Erastus was not healed? Heb 11:36 speak of persecution, not sickness. Deut. 28:22: I am not arguing sickness as judgment for disobedience. That is a given. I am arguing sickness as something God desires for His people. Note also God’s promises to heal should Israel obey (v.1-14). If Israel disobeys, they become sick; if they obey, they will be healthy. Pretty straightforward. In any case, God did not desire or want the people of Israel to be sick. |
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148 | Plain or Intended Meaning? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166681 | ||
You’re correct I would be accusing God of wrongdoing but only if “hate” is used by Luke according to it’s usual and primary definition as defined by such scholars as Robertson. In any case, have you read the rest of Vine’s as I cited it? Also, see my citation of Evans and Liefeld. In Luke, Jesus did not mean that one is to literally hate their parents; he is saying something other than how the definition of the word is normally understood. Maybe I’m not making myself clear. In some respects, it seems to me that we are not really disagreeing with each other. I think the misunderstanding lies in my saying that the Greek word for “hate” is defined in a very strong way, whereas you’re saying, as defined, it can also mean something less strong. If my understanding is correct, in the former, I consider it the normal usage, it’s literal meaning; while, for the latter, I see it not as the definition of the word itself, but a “playing” with the word to emphasize a point. Maybe this is something akin to what Kalos refres to when he cites, “the culture gap gives you…idioms”. It any case, it may not be that we disagree but more rather that I am unable to properly explain myself having not been educated in a college or seminary. If you read “Israel’s Divine Healer” by Dr. Michael L. Brown, I’ll certainly read the book you have suggested. Let me know if it's a deal. |
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149 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166682 | ||
John 5:1-8. If no one else was there and not all were healed when he was on the earth, even so, it is irrelevant; it proves absolutely nothing concerning God’s will to heal. It is God’s will to heal; whether or not one or all are healed is another thing. The fact that God wills certain things does not necessarily mean it will occur. 1 Corinthians 11:28-30. It is God’s will to judge the unrighteous, especially of the "household of faith". Those in the Corinthian church were sick because they sinned and God executed judgment against them. Regarding Job: (1) although God allowed it, it was Satan who made him sick, and (2) in any case, Job’s experience is unique and should not be applied to every believer who becomes sick (that is, not unless they can claim to be blameless and avoids evil over and above every other believer, cf. Job 1:8; 2:3). God did promise disease if Israel was unfaithful. However, what does the Bible say if Israel, as a nation, was obedient? Would they still experience diseases or would God heal them? Timothy’s ailment did not require a miracle of healing to remove it. The Bible doesn’t read that Trophimus was not healed but only that when Paul left, he was still sick. Could he not have been healed sometime afterwards? Let it be clear that I am not arguing Christians do not get sick. I am asserting that (1) it is God’s will that His people be healthy, therefore, (2) it is God’s desire to heal all who are sick. If someone close to you were racked with pain from cancer, would you tell him or her they are being blessed with cancer? Would you pray, “Lord, I thank you that they have cancer and it is painful for them. Their pain is a blessing and shows how good you are to them. Jesus, don’t heal them. Don’t take away such a wonderful blessing. Thank you, Good Lord, for cancer”? Or, with respect to suffering, why don’t we thank God for all the children being raped, mutilated, and murdered? Maybe we should pray God would put it into the hearts of evil men to rape more children since suffering is such a blessing. (My statements above are not meant to reflect any disrespect). Job did not thank God that he lost everything, especially his children. What we have in 1:21 and 2:10 (cf. TEV) is Job’s affirmation of God’s goodness despite the tragedies he experienced. Ps. 103:3. Then the first portion of this verse should be interpreted in the same way, that is, all that is said is that God is the one who forgives, as well as other things; it does not necessarily mean that it is God’s will to forgive all believers (those following Him). 3 Jn 2. So you are, in essence, saying John’s prayer and desire here does not reflect God’s will. If that is the case, then verses 4,11, and 15a seem not to reflect God’s will either. Actually, it can be said, if you are correct, that this epistle was not written under divine inspiration but was merely John's view of things. Mal 4:2. If you are correct and this verse has no reference for us now, then verse 5-6 is with reference to a future fulfillment also and has no reference to anytime before or at present. Matt 7:11. No mention is made of forgiveness either, or eternal life. Besides, when is someone healing another not a “good gift” (or, “good thing”, TEV)? Please search the Bible and let me know where it says or demonstrates that God’s will is to make those who are faithful (i.e. believing and following) to Him sick. To date, I have not found any. |
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150 | Plain or Intended Meaning? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166683 | ||
Hi Searcher, Love and hate are emotive and decisive. Ever been angry without deciding to be like when someone steps on your foot? Ever make the decision to remain in that angry posture? |
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