Results 341 - 360 of 701
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Sir Pent Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
341 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113769 | ||
I need clarification......................................... Hi Ray, You seem to be saying something similar to Mommapbs. You are saying there is a difference in how the Holy Spirit was on the people in the Old Testament (coming upon) and how the Holy Spirit is in us now (indwelling). I would ask you a couple of questions. Why would the Holy Spirit come differently to the people in the Old Testament than He does to us? Why would God wait so long to send the Holy Spirit in the "indwelling" sense. |
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342 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113771 | ||
Wow, what a list............................................. Hi Makarios, I don't think I've ever seen so complete a list of places where the Holy Spirit was active in the Old Testament. Thanks for that excellent post. To focus on the original question, you seem to be saying that God didn't wait at all to send the Holy Spirit, but rather that He was there from the beginning. Do I understand you correctly that you believe that the Holy Spirit was available to people throughout time in the same way that He is to us today. I only ask because some of the other answers I have recieved seem to think that there is a difference in the way the Holy Spirit was available in the OT and how He is available now. But you brought up good scriptural references for the Holy Spirit "filling" and "indwelling" people even in the Old Testament. So perhaps the answer to "Why did God wait" is that "He didn't". |
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343 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113860 | ||
Looking for more information................................. Hi Jcsav, So you are agreeing with almost everyone that the Holy Spirit operates in people's lives differently in the Old Testament than it does now. My first question for you is "Why?" You said that in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit moved in people's lives to enable them to perform a service or accomplish God's plan. Doesn't the Holy Spirit still work in our lives to enable us to serve God and accomplish His plan? Your second point was that the Holy Spirit could not operate in His present method until Jesus's death on the cross. My two questions there would be "Why" and "Why so long"? Firstly, why did Jesus have to die for the Holy Spirit to operate in this expanded way? Secondly, if Jesus had to die first, then why wait so long to send Jesus? |
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344 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113861 | ||
I need more information.......................................... Hi Makarios, I'm a bit confused by your last post. You seem to be saying that the Holy Spirit's role has been expanded because He now fills ALL true Christians. So have His methods changed, or is He still doing the same things, just with more people? |
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345 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113974 | ||
I need clarification................................. Hi Rowdy, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that God had to wait to send Jesus to Earth until humanity "grew up". And by "growing up" you mean that humanity stopped focusing on the physical world and started focusing on the spiritual world. I assume that you are also saying that God had to wait to send the Holy Spirit unitl this "growing up" happened as well. Am I understanding you correctly? |
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346 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113976 | ||
I need clarification................................ Hi Casiv, Thanks for the scripture referrance. I looked at that passage, and I want to make sure that I understand what you wanted me to learn from it. This is what I assume the passage is saying. God sent the Holy Spirit "into our hearts" because we were sons (Gal 4:6). We were sons because we were redeemed and adopted (Gal 4:5). We were redeemed and adopted through God sending His Son Jesus (Gal 4:4). Is this interpretation along the lines of what you were thinking? |
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347 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113979 | ||
Problem number 1............................ Hi EdB, Thanks for your response, but I have a couple problems with it. You seem to be saying that the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was "on" people but not "in" them. However, Makarios brought up several references where the Holy Spirit was "in" people of the Old Testament (Gen 41:38, Num 27:18, Dan 4:8, 5:11-14) Makarios also brought up references where the Holy Spirit even "filled" people in the Old Testament (Ex 31:3, Ex 35:31). Admitedly, these are a minority of references to the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. Most of the time, He did come "on" people and not "in" them. However, it does show that this was not always the case. Another post in this thread referred to Gal 4:4-6, which refers to the Holy Spirit coming "into our hearts", which I don't think ever is mentioned in the Old Testament. Perhaps that is the true distinction that you are looking for. |
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348 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113980 | ||
Problem number 2............................ Hi EdB, The second problem that I have with your answer is that you said the Holy Spirit could not come "in" people who were not holy, and therefore, salvation through Christ had to come before the Holy Spirit could come "in". Doesn't that imply that the Holy Spirit has no problem coming "on" someone who is not holy. And also aren't you implying that no one was holy before Christ's sacrifice? Yet we know that there were people who were holy before Christ's sacrifice (2 Kings 4:9, Mark 6:20). Another post in this thread referred to Gal 4:1-10, which uses the categories of "sons" versus "servants". Perhaps instead of "holy people" you mean that the Holy Spirit can only come on "sons". |
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349 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113993 | ||
My clarification 1........................................ Hi EdB, I disagree that the words "in" and "filled" don't really mean "in" and "filled" in the Old Testament. I also don't see in any of the passages that I quoted (Gen 41:38, Num 27:18, Dan 4:8, 5:11-14, Ex 31:3, Ex 35:31) that the Holy Spirit left those people. It seems to me that the difference between the Holy Spirit in the Old and New Testaments is not whether He was "in" or "on", and not whether He was there "temporarily" or "permanently". Galations 4:4-6 seems to say that the difference is that in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit now comes "into our hearts". What do you think? |
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350 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 113994 | ||
My clarification 2........................................ Hi EdB, Here you seem to be saying that the Holy Spirit comes differently in the New Testament becuase we are permanently holy now after Jesus sacrifice. Yet in the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit could only come on people temporarily because their holiness was temporary and always had to be renewed by animal sacrifices. I disagree. It seems that there are many places in the New Testament where it speaks of the need for even Christians to cleanse our hearts and confess our sins etc. This would indicate that although our cleansing comes repeatedly from the one sacrifice of Jesus instead of multiple sacrifice of animals, that we are not constantly holy, any more than they were in the Old Testament. Galations 4:1-10 seems to say that the difference between our relationship with God before and after Jesus is that we were servants and are now sons. So perhaps your answer of Jesus sacrifice is correct, but the affect of it is to make us sons, not to make us permanently holy. What do you think? |
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351 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114016 | ||
So we agree after all............................ Hi EdB, So it seems that we are in agreement here that the critical change between the Old and New Testaments (relating to the Holy Spirit's methods) is our relationship with God. This transition to becoming sons of God is what enabled the Holy Spirit to come in a new way. |
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352 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114094 | ||
Disagreement............................................ Hi Jcsav, I want to thank you again for pointing me to the Galations 4 passage. It has been helpful for my thinking and also assisted coming to consensus with EdB on this issue. However, I think that I disagree with your interpretation of the passage. You seem to be saying that the passage is comparing Jews and Gentiles. I think that instead he is comparing God's people in the Old and New Testament. In the Old Testament, God's people were the Jews and they were under bondage to the law (Gal 4:1-3). Then the critical change happened when Jesus came (Gal 4:4) and God's people were all those who believed, whether Jew or Gentile. Furthermore, the relationship of God to His people changed from a master/servant relationship to a father/son relationship (Gal 4:5-7). What do you think? |
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353 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114122 | ||
Here's the verses you asked for................................. Hello again Ray, I am aware of your personal study on capitaliztion, although I must admit that I most of your posts on the subject are beyond me. Your dedication to your study is quite impressive though. As for the current topic, you mentioned a need for verses where the Holy Spirit dwells "in us". I would point you towards some that Makarios pointed me to. Gen 41:38, Num 27:18, Dan 4:8, 5:11-14, Ex 31:3, and Ex 35:31 all talk about the Holy Spirit being "in" people of the Old Testament. Rom 8:9-11, 1 Cor 3:16, Eph 2:22, Eph 3:16-17, 2 Tim 1:14, and James 4:5 all refer to the Holy Spirit dwelling "in" believers after Christ. |
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354 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114123 | ||
I need clarification............................................. Hi Ray, You said that you believe the Holy Spirit came the same way to people in the Old Testament as He does to us. I think that Makarios brought up a similar view, that the only difference was just the increased number of people who the Holy Spirit comes to now. If that is the case, then how do you explain the Galations chapter 4 passage that jcsav brought up. It seems to say that the Holy Spirit now comes "into our heart" becuase we are "sons" of God after Christ and no longer "servants" of God like in the Old Testament. That passage seems to indicate a new kind of relationship with God leading to a new kind of filling with the Holy Spirit. There aren't any passages in the Old Testament that say the Holy Spirit comes into someone's heart. What do you think? |
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355 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114129 | ||
Agreement................................................... Hi again Jcsav, I agree that in God there is neither Jew or Gentile. I also agree that as humans there is still a definition of "Jew" and "Gentile". I also agree that the Church today has some people who would be classified as "Jews" and others who would be classified as "Gentiles". For instance, my wife has some Jewish ancestry, and I do not think that I have any myself. And we are both believers and a part of the Church today :) |
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356 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114133 | ||
Vehement Disagreement.................................... Hi Hank, I'm disappointed by your last post. I made two posts in response to Ray within 1 minute of each other. They were right on top of each other on the webpage, and I have to assume you read them both. In the first one I pointed out no less than 6 passages in the Old Testament that spoke of the Holy Spirit being "in" people there. In fact, I have stated throughout this entire thread that I believe the Holy Spirit was active in the Old Testament. Then you ignore all of that and instead focus on one phrase from my second response to Ray that the Holy Spirit does not come "into the heart" of anyone in the Old Testament. You take that one phrase out of it's context and then make it sound like I don't believe the Holy Spirit came on people in the Old Testament. You characterize me falsely, and in an irresponsible manner. As a forum leader, I expect more of you. |
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357 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114159 | ||
Continued Disagreement............................... Hello again Hank, I am disappointed again by your last post. It seems to be wrong on 3 different levels. 1. You said that I made a statement "contrary to biblical fact". That is not true. I said that the Old Testament does not contain any verses that say the Holy Spirit comes "into our heart" (although it is in the New Testament in Gal 4:6). Can you find any Old Testament verse that contains that exact phrase? 2. You said that I personally attacked you, and implied that I held grudges, and called you names. That is not true. My response to your post intended to critique your post not your person. I meant that your post ignored the context of the entire thread of the discussion. I meant that your post characterized me falsely. I have no grudges against you (notice I didn't refer to anything in my response to you except in regards to the most recent post). And the only "name" I called you was a "forum leader", which I meant as a term of respect (which is why I had high expectations). 3. It is also curious to me why you would respond to my post directed towards Ray on the grounds that it was unbiblical (which it wasn't). There have been many posts recently that have truly been unbiblical (denying the orthodox belief in the Trinity, debating the neccessity of baptism, etc.). Yet you have not responded to almost any of them. Why pick on me? |
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358 | Why did God wait to send the Holy Spirit | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114165 | ||
Tieing up loose ends......................................... Hi Makarios and Ray, I think the only loose end left in this thread is to figure out whether the Holy Spirit's methods changed from the Old Testament to now. It seems that most people think that there is a differnce, which is supported by the Galations 4:1-7 passage. However, you both seem to think that the Holy Spirit's methods are the same and that the only change is one of quantity, in that He fills ALL true believers (Christians) now. Do I understand you correctly, and if so, could you back up that belief? |
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359 | Did OT saints have Holy Spirit within? | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114702 | ||
My answer...................................................... Hello John Pilgrim, I don't think that we've met yet. Welcome to the forum, and forgive me for taking so long to respond to your question to me. I have been away. My thoughts on Psalm 51:9-12 are pretty basic really. I think that the psalmist is desiring a better relationship with God. Therefore, he asks God for forgiveness (v.9),and for a renewing of the psalmist's spirit (v.10). Then in verse 11, the psalmist speaks of wanting to stay in a close relationship with God. Therefore, he doesn't want to be cast away from God, or have God's Holy Spirit go away from him. Finally, in verse 12, the psalmist prays to regain the joy that he had when he was first saved by God. Those would be my initial thoughts on the passage you asked about. Do you see more there, or have any other questions? |
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360 | Can anyone else answer this question? | Joel 2:28 | Sir Pent | 114707 | ||
I need clarification............................................. Hello Mommapbs, Thanks for your answer. I have been away as well. In your last post you said that in the Old Testament (OT) the Holy Spirit rested "upon" people, but in the New Testament (NT) it dwells "in" people. However, Gen 41:38, Num 27:18, Dan 4:8, 5:11-14, Ex 31:3, and Ex 35:31 all talk about the Holy Spirit being "in" people of the OT. Similarly, Rom 8:9-11, 1 Cor 3:16, Eph 2:22, Eph 3:16-17, 2 Tim 1:14, and James 4:5 all refer to the Holy Spirit dwelling "in" believers after Christ. And we know that the Holy Spirit came "on" the prophets of the OT, and also "on" the NT believers at Pentecost among other places. However, there is only one place in scripture that the Holy Spirit's method is referred to as "into our hearts". That place is Galations 4:6. So is the difference between the OT and NT method of the Holy Spirit acting in people lives really "on" and "in"? Or instead is it a difference of being "in" AND "on" in both the OT AND the NT, and being "into our hearts" only in the NT? What do you think? |
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