Results 141 - 160 of 361
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Bill Mc Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | Bill Mc, Are you twisting Scripture? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16543 | ||
Dear Joe, Please see my 3 part post (way down below) on forgiveness. I explain my reasoning there. Thanks for your interaction. In Him, Bill Mc |
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142 | Forgiveness - Part 2 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16567 | ||
Dear Tim, please don't think that I am regulating everything that Christ said (or even the entire Sermon on the Mount) to only applying to the Old Covenant. If you have perceived that that is what I'm saying, then either I missed something in my explanation or you have misunderstood me. Christ did often teach and uphold the law. But our Lord often exercised grace and mercy one on one. Consider the woman caught in adultery. The law said that for her sin, she should die. Christ NEVER rescinded that. Instead, He took it to a heart issue and caught the self-righteous in their own trap. But, to the adulteress He said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." People will sometimes read my comments and say, 'Bill is a Pauline.' Or, 'Bill doesn't believe that anything Jesus said is applicable to the Christian.' That allegation is simply not true. And I am not trying to set myself up as the judge of what applies and what does not. But I do feel that certain issues, forgiveness being one of those issues, were dealt with COMPLETELY at the cross. We, as Christians, MUST understand what happened at the cross and the resurrection if we are to properly understand Christ's teachings. I.e., if the OT means of providing forgiveness was sufficient, then why did Christ die to provide another way? Why didn't He just leave the animal sacrifice system alone? Why? Because that system pointed to HIM and what HE would do. Hebrews says time after time how superior the New Covenant, the new High Priest, the new priesthood, the new sacrifice is to the old. As I've tried to show in these posts, ultimate forgiveness was provided at the cross. Almost everything that Christ said about the cross and His death related to sins and forgiveness. So, to me, the cross is the final word on the forgiveness of sins for mankind. Is the Sermon on the Mount a presentation of the Kingdom of God? Surely. Christ was dealing with the attitudes of the heart and their subsequent actions. Much of what He says is of the style, 'the law says...but I tell you...' And He told the people that unless their righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees (letter-of-the-law righteousness) they would not enter the kingdom of heaven. He covers many topics here: personal relationships, giving to the poor, fasting, true wealth, anxiety, judging others, prayer, etc. Does the cross deal DIRECTLY with these issues? No, not directly. But our lives AFTER the cross does. And if your walk with the Lord is anything like mine, believe me, the Holy Spirit deals with me on these issues. But the forgiveness issue is dealt with DIRECTLY at the cross. That is while I feel that a subsequent revelation (complete forgiveness through Christ's sacrifice) supercedes what He taught here. Could I be wrong? Yes. I could be. And like my 1 John 1:9 post, challenge me. Where, after the cross, does God say 'forgive or you will not be forgiven.' (If you do, let's start another thread, OK?) I am not saying that I will resort to this tactic for every argument. But, dear Tim, you know, if you're a pastor, many, many Christians are confused about the forgiveness of sins. Why do you think this topic is such a hot one on the forum? There must be an answer. We are all seeking it. Thanks for your kind critique. Keep me challenged. Blessings to you, brother Tim. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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143 | Forgiveness, is it conditional? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16568 | ||
Dear Tim, Please let me respond to your questions and, if you could add anything further, I would be interested and most appreciative. 1) Yes, I believe that forgiveness was obtained through the animal sacrifice in the OT. However, did God just issue a, for lack of a better word, 'blanket forgiveness' for everyone? Or did He actually look at individual's hearts and accept the offering based upon their attitudes? I am not honestly 100 percent sure here. I know that He told Saul, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I.e. 'Don't just do what YOU want to do, and then come to Me with a sin offering and think that I HAVE to accept it.' I'm not sure where the scripture reference is (help me out here), but in one place God said something to the effect of, 'Stop your offerings, they are making Me sick because your hearts are far from Me.' Sorry that I can remember the reference or exact wording. So, I think a strong case can be made that, just like in salvation, the people needed to exercise faith in what God provided and God honored and responded to that faith. Is this way Christ told them to, basically, check their hearts before offering their sacrifice? Obviously, in the OT, the sacrificial system required that the offerings be made, but did everyone place their faith in them? Probably not. So was everyone forgiven just because they brought an offering? I don't think so. There was even a problem between Cain and Abel's offerings (I know, different type). But you know, Tim, I can't count the times in the past that I have gone to the altar (under the New Covenant obviously) to seek forgiveness when my own heart was not right? I just wanted forgiveness without being changed. God always sees my heart. And He KNOWS if I am sincere. As you know from my infamous 1 John 1:9 post, I no longer ask for forgiveness. It is not faith to ask for what God has already given me. But it is faith to thank Him for it and ask Him to show me where I am not walking in the Spirit, where I sin, where I am still walking in the flesh. So, yes I 'confess', I agree with God, but I don't ask for forgiveness. 2) I still don't feel that forgiveness is conditional. I do believe in concept of unlimited atonement (but I wouldn't use that word. Atonement is no where found in the Greek NT and I think that it reinforces that Christ's blood only 'covers' as opposed to takes away our sins). But you and I disagree as to what folks call 'eternal security' for reasons that we have already discussed. I see a way too many scriptures in the proper New Covenant (after Christ's death) that substantiate that we are baptized into Christ, united with Him, made a new creation, adopted by God, made alive with Him, born again, called children of God, citizens of heaven, made complete in Him, heirs of God, indwelt by His Spirit, partakers of the Divine nature, reconciled to God, redeemed, made righteous, called saints, saved, sealed, translated out of darkness into light, etc. (What a mouthful) If it is true that we can stop being all these things and remove ourselves from God and His forgiveness, I sure wish He would have prodded the NT writers to discuss it more fully and with greater clarity. If you can 'lose your salvation' or whatever label you want to stick on it, it seems like something with such dire consequences (ending up in Hell) would have been addressed much more than 2 or 3 verses of 'if you continue.' :) I'm not poking fun, but I do recall our prior interaction and, no, I still don't have an answer. Well, my fingers are getting tired... Thanks again, Tim. Grow in grace. In Him, Bill Mc |
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144 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16569 | ||
Tim, one small note. You said, 'Because, forgiveness of sins was obtained through the sin sacrifice, not through forgiving others. So, what part did forgiveness of others play in our forgiveness.' Even under the New Covenant, with Christ as the once for all sacrifice, not everyone has received that forgiveness. Yes, I believe in unlimited propitiation :), but I belive that forgiveness is PROVIDED for at the cross and RECEIVED at conversion. Why? Because forgiveness in the NT is only found IN CHRIST. Similarly, the OT sacrifices PROVIDED for forgiveness but, is it possible (see my other post here) that it was only received by faith? Forgiveness of others would play a part here, as I have stated concerning Matt 5:23,24. |
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145 | Forgiveness - part 3 of 3 | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16601 | ||
Tim, see my response to part 2. Even under OT sacrifice, I don't feel that God just forgave because the offering was made. I noted in my response that God wanted Saul's obedience not sacrifice. And also the OT mentions where God says that His is sick of the sacrifices because people were just going through the motions (aren't you glad WE no longer do that?). I don't think that if the offering was offered with out repenting that God did honor the sacrifice. I.e. if you came to God with your bull or goat and still had unforgiveness in your heart, I don't feel the God was OBLIGATED to accept the offering. So I am not nullifying this scripture at all. I am saying that, under the New Covenant where forgiveness is based on GRACE (remember that word :)) God forgives on based, not on what we do or don't do, but upon the finished work of His Son, Jesus Christ. I won't 'convert' you (that's God's job) :) In Him, Bill Mc |
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146 | Forgiveness, is it conditional? | Matt 6:14 | Bill Mc | 16625 | ||
Forgiveness IS conditional after the cross depending on whether you have come to Christ or not. If you want to put faith in the forgiveness and accept it, it is only received through Christ. But after coming to Christ, we HAVE the forgiveness of sins, our redemption. So, in the sense of saved/unsaved, though provision has been made for complete forgiveness, it must be received by placing one's faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. |
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147 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15194 | ||
Dear Steve, I'm sure I'll be flailed alive for this one but you asked... Consider: Eph 1:7 In Him we have (present tense) redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven (past tense) you. Col 1:14 in whom we have (present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven (past tense) us all (ALL) our transgressions, 1 John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven (past tense)you for His name's sake. Heb 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness (present tense) of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Did the Father answer this prayer? Did He forgive us? Upon what basis did He forgive us? Heb 9:22 makes it clear that the shedding of blood is the ONLY thing that provides forgiveness. I don't believe that Christ was speaking to His crucifiers here. No one was there asking for forgiveness (not even the thief asked to have his sins forgiven). But Christ was born under law and He taught under law. If you are going to say that our forgiveness is now dependant upon whether or not we forgive others, you are going to have to rip out all these other verses that speak of forgiveness being past tense and something that every Christian professes. The ONLY way I have ever found to reconcile these passages is to understand the new covenant in Christ's blood that was shed for the remission of sins. Here's a challenge: Other than 1 John 1:9 that I believe Christians erroneously try to make applicable to believers as a 'bar of soap' to keep us clean before a holy God, find one, just one, other passage of scripture after Christ's death on the cross, where we are told to ask for forgiveness from God. (James 5:16 doesn't count because it is talking about confessing our sins to one another so we can be healed.) Was doesn't Paul (who wrote 2/3 of the NT) even once mention to ask God to forgive us for sins. Why not Peter? Surely he knew the importance of forgiveness. How did 1st century Christians ever stay in fellowship with God until 95 AD when 1 John was written? They must have all been out of fellowship with God for, gosh, 62 years! What do you think, Steve? In Christ, Bill Mc IN MY OPINION (based upon scripture), no it does not apply. |
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148 | Is God's forgiveness conditional? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15195 | ||
Dear forum members, What do you think? Is Matthew 6:15 for Christians? Is forgiveness conditional after the cross? Or is it unconditional? |
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149 | Are we forgiven? Does anyone know? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15206 | ||
Dear Sandman, Thanks for your comment but I still do not think that it applies after the cross. While we were yet sinners, Christ reconciled us to God, not holding our sins against us - 2 Cor 5:19. Is God still holding your sins against you, Sandman? He says that He is not. Why? Because He held them against Jesus Christ. My Lord became sin for me so that I could become His righteousness. I am not denying my common ground that I was a sinner and needed God's forgiveness. But now, because I am born again from above, I am no longer a sinner, I am a saint who still sins. I know it sounds sacriligeous, but it's not. Most of Paul's letters were written to churches that had severe problems and had "sin in the assembly". But you never see Paul saying, "To the sinners saved by grace at Corinth," "To the sinners saved by grace at Ephesus." I am a new creation in Christ. The old Bill Mc without God's spirit was crucified and I am now a saint, not because of my actions, but because of my new birth. I am a forgiven person in Christ, just as I am a redeemed person in Christ. Forgiveness is not something that we can have apart from Christ. If we have Him, we have forgiveness of sins. Look again at Eph 1:7 and Col 1:14. How is redemption defined there? Forgiveness of sins. It says that we HAVE (present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins, does it not? Would I have faith in God if, everytime I sinned, I asked God to redeem me? Would I have faith in God if, every time I sinned, I asked God to save me? No. Faith is taking God at His Word. All I can do is receive it and spend the rest of eternity thanking Him for it. Neither is it faith to ask God to keep forgiving me when He says that, in Christ, He has already done it. That's not faith, that's negating the cross. That's relegating Christ's blood to that of a bull or goat, that can only 'cover' sin until the next time. That's living under the old covenant where you have to keep coming to God and asking for more and more forgiveness and never realizing what He has done. So, could you do me a big favor and respond to my questions? (See my prior post and the associated verses) I would appreciate it. You can't say that 1. God only forgives us IF we forgive others AND 2. All of our sins are forgiven. Both of these statements cannot be true at the same time. They are mutually exclusive. Do you believe Heb 10:17 - that our sins are remembered no more? Let me offer a note of clarification here. I am not saying that because my sins are forgiven, that I can just go on willfully 'sinning' with no consequences. Paul addresses this in Romans 6. If I continue 'practicing sin' I will become a slave to it. Sin will affect my soul (behavior), my body, and most of all, others who I love. It will also misrepresent the wonderful grace in which I stand and exhibit a poor witness to others. So, sin DOES have consequences. I will suffer them if I walk after the flesh and fulfill its lust. BUT, sin does not affect my spiritual relationship to God. My Lord and Savior shed every precious drop of His blood to take away the sin issue between me and God so that I could be reconciled to Him. I DO NOT take that lightly. I've been accused of being 'light on sin.' Hardly, I know exactly what it cost my Lord to purchase my salvation and my ONLY righteousness is that which He gives me. So my goal now is to let Christ live through me and present myself to Him as a living sacrifice. I'm not 'light on sin.' But I can tell you that where sin abounds, grace MUCH MORE abounds. I'm big on God's grace. If that is perceived as a fault or heresy, so be it. In closing, please answer my questions. Me and my convictions are always up to questioning. But God's Word is pretty plain on this issue. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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150 | Is 1 John 1:9 for Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15238 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for the response. To answer your questions, in my opinion: Matthew 6:15 means that, before Christ died to provide the 'taking away of sin' and reconciliation with God that we now enjoy, if you didn't forgive others, then God would not forgive you. This verse is pretty clear. Jesus cited another example of this economy - the man who was forgiven much. 1 John 1:9 answers 1 John 1:8. Look at the charateristics that Paul cites there in verse 8. These people 1) say they have no sin and are 2) thereby self-decieved and 3) the truth is not in them. Verse 10 adds further clarification. These people again 1) say they have not EVER sinned and are 2)thereby calling God a liar (because Rom 3:23 says ALL have sinned) and 3) His word (Who is the Word?) is not in them. Do these characteristics define believers in Christ? Now that the Holy Spirit indwells you, would you: 1) Say you have NO sin? 2) Not have the truth (the Spirit of Christ) in you? (See 2 John 1:2 - the truth abides in us forever) 3) Say you have NEVER sinned? 4) Call God a liar? 5) Not have His Word in you? (Again, see 2 John 1:2) I don't believe that these are characteristics of a Christian. In fact, in order to become a Christian, we must: 1) Agree (confess) with God that we have a sin nature. 2) Accept the truth (what God says about us) and be indwelt by the Spirit of truth. 3) Agree (confess) with God that we have sinned, all have (except Christ). 4) Recognize that God is the source of all truth and that He is not a liar. 5) Accept His Word and, thereby, allow it to dwell in us. So, Tim, I believe that 1 John 1:9 addresses these people described in verses 8 and 10. John says, "If you confess (agree with God) about your sin nature and your acts of sinning, then God is faithful and just to forgive (why? because of Christ's shed blood) you and He will cleanse you from ALL (not just past, but past, present, future) unrighteousness (sin). Obviously, Tim, I am NOT saying that a Christian does not confess their sins. Confession is agreeing with God. A Christian, by his partaking of the new divine nature, we MUST agree with God concerning the sin issue. But we confess our sins to allow God to renew our minds, not to seek further forgiveness. Please permit me to ask, what is the ONLY thing, in scripture, that provides for the remission (removal) of sin? Hebrews says that without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness. So, if you require further forgiveness of sin between you and God, what will need to happen? Was Christ blood sufficient to forgive ALL your sins or only some? In Him, Bill Mc |
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151 | Are you forgiven? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15242 | ||
Dear Debbie, I humbly ask, if the foot-washing episode is about more forgiveness and more cleansing, are you going to ask the King of kings and Lord of lords to strip, don a robe, and wash you again when He said that, "It is finished." Permit me to ask, who initiated the foot-washing? Did Peter ask for it? Did he come to God (Jesus) and say, 'Lord, I need cleansing. Please make a servant of Yourself and wash my feet.' Hardly, Christ initiated it. Peter just responded to what Christ was doing. This passage is not about forgiveness, this passage is about servanthood. This passage is about serving one another in Christian love. As for 1 John 1:9, see my other post. Dear Debbie, where do you see in scripture that "the wages of sin is broken fellowship" or that the wages of not sinning is fellowship. If you believe that your fellowship with God is dependant on what you do or don't do, then you are saying that you are stronger than what Christ has done. The Bible says that we HAVE BEEN reconciled to God. That means that ALL hostilities between us and God have ceased. Do you believe that God was in Christ, not holding our sins against us? Do you believe Heb 10:17,18? Christ has brought us into fellowship with God by His blood. The veil was torn in two. We can now enter into God's presence (indeed, He is IN us) through the blood of Christ. I agree that we should thank Him for His forgiveness. And you yourself said that we WERE forgiven. So, are we or not? Either Christ forgave us ALL our sins, as the scripture references I cited earlier say, or He didn't. ALL your sins (and mine) were future when He died on the cross. His blood covers the mercy seat in heaven and it keeps on cleansing us continually from every sin. Not because we ask, but because He offered. You are not out of fellowship with God when you sin, but you are walking after the flesh. See 1 Cor 1:9; 2 Cor 13:14; Phil 2:1; 1 John 1:3. Even 1 John 1:3 says, "our fellowship IS with the Father, and with His Son, Jesus Christ." John does not say, "our fellowship is with the Father...as long as we don't sin." Or "our fellowship is with the Father...as long as we keep on, day after day, time after time, keeping short accounts with God." 1 John 1:7 says that Christ blood cleanses us from ALL sin. This is something He initiated. Confession of sin doesn't KEEP you reconciled to God, only the blood of Christ KEEPS us in fellowship. Forgiveness, for the believer, is something we HAVE, not something we GET. What do you think? In Him, Bill Mc |
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152 | Darkness vs. Light | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15253 | ||
Radioman, Nice quotes out of the Scofield but my Bible doesn't say that (NASB). Neither does your text. Your text says that the wages of sin is death - period. Not broken fellowship. Scofield can say whatever he likes. See these verses: Eph 5:8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 1 Thess 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 1 Pet 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; Look closely at these references: 1) you WERE FORMERLY darkness - NOW you are LIGHT in the Lord 2) He rescued us from the domain of darkness 3) But you, brethren, are not in darkness 4) Him who has called you out of darkness Darkness is not a synonym for 'sinning.' Darkness is a synonym for unbelief in Christ. See Acts 26:18. Jesus said that whoever followed Him will NEVER walk in darkness, did He not? No disrespect for Dr. Scofield, but, how can a Christian walk in darkness. Jesus said that he couldn't. Isn't it interesting, body of Christ, that no one has answered my question concerning one other passage other than 1 John 1:9, where a (supposedly) believer is told to keep on asking for forgiveness from God. Why is that? I thought that scholars say, "One should not build a doctrine around one verse of scripture." So, convince me. Find one other passage where Paul says to keep asking for forgiveness. Or where Paul says what he had to do to stay in fellowship with God. If being out of fellowship with God is such any important doctrine (and it must be because Christians throw out all the other verses dealing with forgiveness), surely Paul or Peter can testify to the necessity of 'keeping yourself forgiven WITHOUT shedding any blood.' Why don't they? Can anyone do this? In Him, Bill Mc |
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153 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15254 | ||
Dear fellow believers, Please humor me for a moment. Permit me to say, that 1 John 1:9 is NOT for believers. Temporarily pretend that it is NOT in the scriptures. Now, where else after Christ death on the cross (that provided forgiveness and taking away of sins) does any believer mention asking God to forgive their sins? Please show me a passage. The evangelical doctrine of 'keep on asking for forgiveness when you sin' surely MUST have more than just one verse to substantiate it. So where is it? Surely Paul, Peter, James or the writer of Hebrews substantiated John's assertion that believers are NOT completely forgiven (according to some). Where is the scripture to back it up? Please show me where, other that 1 John, the wages of sin in ANYONE's life is anything other that death. Can anyone do this? Thank you, In Christ, Bill Mc |
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154 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15268 | ||
Dear Nolan, I requested examples of believers AFTER the death of Christ (when the New Covenant went into effect) asking God for forgiveness. Let's see what you offered: "If you contend that we should not ask for forgiveness (believers) in light of our sin, then how do you handle these passages: Matthew 7:11, John 14:13, 15:16, 16:23,26 that seem to say that the Father will honor our request and forgive us if we will only ask Him?" None of these passages are talking about forgiveness. Do you then, Nolan, use these passages to ask God for redemption, reconciliation, sanctification, or a new Cadillac? "A New Testament example?" Acts 3:19 - Peter is refering to what the prophets foretold, that Messiah would wipe away sins. See verse 20 - "that He may send Jesus" Did He do this or not? Acts 8:22 - Spoken to Simon (an unbeliever at the time - he was trying to buy God's power) Acts 17:30 - Paul is speaking to the men of Athens, very religious, but certainly not Christians Acts 26:20 - That the Gentiles (unbelievers) would repent and turn to God. Again, not to Christians Rev. 2:5, 2:16,21-22, 3:19, - Obviously, written to churches made up of, then as now, both unbelievers and believers. This is the same way as the churches that received John's letters. Churches have both believers and unbelievers in them. You have not proven your point or answered my questions. And, the 'ask anything in My name' passages are all taken out of context. Frankly, as knowledgeable as you are about scripture, I'm surprised you resorted to that. But you did surprise me. I've never seen anyone use those scriptures to substantiate 1 John 1:9. Let's try an easier one. What does 1 John 2:12 mean to you? This is the same author, the same audience EXCEPT he is addressing his 'little children.' "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins HAVE BEEN (past tense) FORGIVEN you for His name's sake. Also, compare 1 John 1:8 - 'the truth is not in us' with 1 John 2:21 - 'you do know it (truth). These MUST be two different audiences, his 'little children' and the gnostic element. Nolan, if you can't answer my questions without pulling verses out of context, then it would be best to let someone else reply. Thank you. In Him, Bill Mc |
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155 | Darkness vs. Light | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15269 | ||
Nolan, please consider Hebrews 10:14-18: Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Heb 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Please refrain from using the Old Covenant to answer a New Covenant question. In Him, Bill Mc |
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156 | Darkness vs. Light | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15271 | ||
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157 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15272 | ||
Dear fellow believers, I have stated my view of the forgiveness issue and 1 John 1:9 as briefly and 'apologetically' as I can. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and responses. I would like to say that I DO NOT feel that this issue should divide the church. I do not regard anyone as 'mislead' if they do not believe the same way that I do concerning this issue. The difference can be summed up as follows: 1) I believe that I am a forgiven person as are ALL believers. I do still sin but my sins ARE forgiven. My sins were ALL forgiven at the cross 2000 years ago only by Christ shedding His blood, not by my confession of them. I had committed none of those sins 2000 years ago when He died, but I believe that the cross was an eternal act of God (Christ was slain before the foundation of the world) and that He saw and bore ALL my sins in His body back then. And that His blood washed them ALL away. In other words, it is a done deal just like my redemption, reconciliation, justification, etc. I believe that I have been (past tense) reconciled to God and that, because of Christ sacrifice, my sins are no longer held against me. 2) Some on this forum believe that forgiveness must continually be asked for as sins are committed. They infer that Christ administers forgiveness only at repentance, whether believers or not. They also feel that if a Christian doesn't forgive others, then they will not be forgiven. They believe in keeping short accounts with God so that they do not lose fellowship with Him. While I disagree with this view, I do understand it and used it to keep myself clean before the Lord and in fellowship for 30 years (or so I thought). I, obviously, no longer hold to that view for reasons that I have stated here. But, believers, the bottom line is that only Christ can forgive sins. I think we all agree to that. We just disagree as to the timing of that forgiveness. That's Ok. It's time to move on... Blessings in Christ to all, Bill Mc |
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158 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15277 | ||
Dear Nolan, "Are you, Bill, completely sinless and without sin?" In my spirit, my true identity, I have been joined to Christ's Spirit. I am in spiritual union with Him. Because of that union, my identity has been changed from 'sinner' to 'saint.' So, my spirit, joined to Christ can NEVER sin. My soul (my mind, emotions, and will) can still sin. It is in the process of being sanctified and is not perfect or sinless. My body still has what Paul calls 'indwelling sin.' As Paul says, it is in me but it is NOT me. Left to it's own, it will sin. My body (unfortunately) has not yet been redeemed. But it only houses my soul and spirit. "What happens if you do sin?" If I commit a sin, the Holy Spirit convicts me of that sin and says, "Bill, you just...fill in the blank. Don't you know that you are acting contrary to your new identity in Christ? You don't have to sin anymore. Christ has set you free." So I confess (agree with God) that sin is sin and ask Him to show me where my mind needs to be renewed (exposed to the truth of God's Word). As He renews my mind (a process), my actions follow. "Do you, although you are a believer, not ask for Christ to forgive you of your sins, which were done after you accepted Christ?" No, I don't. If you look at all the verses I posted about forgiveness, you'll see that they are all past tense or present tense. I.e. forgiveness is something we received when we received Christ and we NOW currently possess it. Just as I don't, when I sin, ask God to save me, reconcile me to God, redeem me, justify me, etc. In Him, I have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. So, Nolan, if I don't ask God for it, then what do I do? I thank Him for what I already have. I thank Him that He died to forgive that sin and ask Him to conform He in my soul and body to the spiritual image of Christ that is ever present in my spirit. Do you, Nolan, ask God to save you when you sin? Why not? Because He has already done it. Do you ask Him to redeem you when you sin? No, He has already done it. Forgiveness is the same. Asking God for what you already have is not faith. It is unbelief. Asking God to forgive you when you commit a sin is saying that you don't believe He did at the cross. And yet, we will turn right around and tell a sinner, come forward and get ALL your sins forgiven. What we mean is, come forward and get only your past sins forgiven. I have news for you, my friend. Every sin that you ever committed, currently commit, or will ever commit has been paid for at the cross. If Christ blood didn't take away your future sins, then it did nothing with your past sins either. God is outside of time and not bound by our feeble view of it. Christ dealt with sins ONCE and FOR ALL. I'm sorry if you don't believe that. Maybe we should change our hymns and sing: He Took Some of My Sins Away Jesus Paid It Some What Can Wash Away My Sin, Nothing But My Confession Calvary Covers Only What's Confessed Turn Your Eyes Upon Your Sin It Is Almost Finished Praise God, My Sins Are Nearly Gone Talk to the writer of "It Is Well With My Soul" when you get to heaven and tell him he was wrong when he wrote, 'My sin, not in part, but the whole, is nailed to the cross. I bear it no more. It is well with my soul.' Maybe he never read 1 John 1:9. I don't mean to be sarcastic but we have so little understanding of what Christ has done for us. We are so concerned with our sins that His grace eludes us. We are no different that the Jews who had to keep going back to the Day of Atonement, year after year, and asking for more forgiveness. We have them beat. We ask it day after day, sometimes hour by hour. Do you think God is pleased with our lack of faith when Christ said, "IT IS FINISHED! PAID IN FULL!"? In Him, Bill Mc |
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159 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15280 | ||
Dear Tim, You right, James 5:15 is a difficult passage. Here's what I believe. James was addressing problems in this body of believers. One of them is that they couldn't get along. See James 4:1. I understand James 5:15,16 to be forgiveness between members. (I could be wrong, that is why I ask to be challenged. The truth will survive serious scrutiny.) He says in verse 16, confess your sins to one another (not to God) so that the relationships can be healed. We still very much need to do that. Why? Because we do not often offer each other the unconditional love that Christ offers us. The antithesis of James 5:15 would be, "his sins won't be forgiven." This just doesn't fit with the rest of the scriptures about forgiveness and what, I believe, Christ has done. But, thanks for the challenge. I really do appreciate it. I will definately have to look at the book of James closer. That, believe it or not, was what I was seeking - some scripture that doesn't line up with my 'theology.' Now, where's my commentaries...? ;) Thanks for the honest reply without labeling me a heretic. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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160 | Where are the scriptures, believers? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15283 | ||
Dear Tim, I don't know what an Arminian or a Calvinist is. I know enough to know that they seem to be at odds or war or something. I know it sounds stupid but I haven't studied either one. Nevertheless, I agree with your statement, 'in the atonement, everyone's sins are forgiven. But, it is only when we respond to the gospel that we receive the benefits.' Complete forgiveness is provided for everyone but it is part of the package when we receive Christ - "In Him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sin." "God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting men's sins against them." - 2 Cor 5:19 "In Him we have received the reconciliation." - Romans 5:10,11 (I think that's the reference) I believe that God has reconciled the world to Himself because, well...He said so. That's why Paul says, "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself...so we beg you on behalf of Christ, BE reconciled to God." God has done it, so believe it and BE it - accept that it is true. I feel the same way about the forgiveness issue. "In Him, we HAVE redemption, the forgiveness of sins." God has forgiven us IN CHRIST so BE forgiven. God has done it, so believe it and BE it - accept that it is true. Take care, Tim. Rest in His love, Bill Mc |
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