Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does God "cause" or "allow"? | Bible general Archive 2 | prazn | 121899 | ||
There is evidence throughout the Old Testament that God both causes and allows evil to befall His people (for purposes of correction). Numerous times throughout the Old Testament, the Lord sent struck down those who disobeyed His commandments. Examples: when the Israelites grumbled about their provisions, or married pagan wives; when the ark of the covenant was not carried back to Jerusalem according to the Lord's specific instructions for doing so; when King David took a census and the Lord gave the king a choice regarding the punishment that he would be given, etc. Whether the Lord "causes" or "allows" evil to befall His people the purpose is undoubtedly the same...and that is to bring His sons and daughters to maturation in Him: Heb 12:5 "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; Heb 12:6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. Heb 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. With regard to your question about the angels. You undoubtedly know that Lucifer was an angel of the Lord who was kicked out of heaven along with his rebellious cohorts. I suppose that an argument could be made, based upon the enemy's exercise of his free will, that the Angels of God also have free will. Hope this answers your questions... peace! prazn |
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2 | God allows/causes? | Bible general Archive 2 | eagle_eyes | 121903 | ||
The verse was 1 Samuel 18:10 and 19:9. I see what you're saying about the Lord discipling and would have to agree that the Lord both causes and allows. For instance...the murders that took place at Columbine in Colorado...9/11 at the World Trade Center...drunk driver killing an innocent person...etc... this would be stuff that the Lord allows by our free will...He doesn't cause such stuff, right? I know there's nothing that happens that the Lord isn't aware of and is very capable of stopping if He chose to... The opinion that God causes things to happen to me sounded like God tempts people and the Bible doesn't teach that and it takes satan completely out of the picture as to what his purpose is. Thank you for your response. Mark |
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3 | God allows/causes? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 121905 | ||
Hello Mark, If I may jump in... This is a difficult subject. As has been pointed out, God does cause "evil" to befall man. Another example: Amos 3:6 (ESV) Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it? Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things. You say questioningly, "For instance...the murders that took place at Columbine in Colorado...9/11 at the World Trade Center...drunk driver killing an innocent person...etc... this would be stuff that the Lord allows by our free will...He doesn't cause such stuff, right?" What we know for certain is that God will cause things to happen because they need to be accomplished in order to complete what God has in His overall plan. Look at this: Proverbs 16:4 (ESV) The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. God made the wicked man (although He didn't make the man wicked). It's in His plan, and I don't pretend to know how it all works out. Steve |
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4 | God orchestrates or allows? | Bible general Archive 2 | eagle_eyes | 121910 | ||
Nothing happens without the Lord's knowledge or His allowing it happen. Job for example...God was aware of the things that the devil was doing to him for God gave permission except for the life of Job. It's just hard to accept that God "orchestrates" everything that happens in this world, as the Brother stated Tuesday night. If that was entirely right, where does this leave the devil and his angels? The Bible speaks of the devil walking to and fro seeking whom he can devour, he's the accuser, father of lies, etc...No temptation comes to man more than he can bear without there being a way to escape. To me, it sounds like God has a permissive will and not that he entirely "orchestrates" everything that goes on in this world. If He does, it would seem that it would interfere with man's "free will" Just my thoughts...is an interesting discussion and surely, we'll understand it all when this life is over. | ||||||
5 | God orchestrates or allows? | Bible general Archive 2 | JCrichton | 121924 | ||
Hi, eagle eyes! I think that part of the problem is that we take everything to extremes... when we do so we make the Word of God seem lopsided... i.e.: There are those who read the Bible and claim that Jesus cannot be God because Yahweh said, in the Old Testament, that there is only one God. Others look to the verse where Jesus Christ stated that not even the Son of man knew "the hour or the day..."--clearly this, to them, is evidence enough that Jesus cannot be God. Others, still, claim that since God cannot be tempted and Jesus was tempted then it must be that Jesus is not God... What do they miss? They miss Jesus stating that He and the Father are One; that He is the Son of God; that He is the Alpha and the Omega, that He is the Beginning and the End; that He is the Resurrection and the Life; that He is the Good Shepherd... then there are the Father's own words: "Your throne, God, is for ever and ever;" And Thomas' confession: "My Lord and my God!" I could go on with the list... Everything is in God's hands (for He lets the sun shine on both the just and the unjust; He allows the rain to fall on both the good and the bad--paraphrased!)... Does that translate into everyone in the world being puppets whose strings are pulled by God at His whim? God causes all things to happen for the good of those He loves: Jesus died on the cross: the Just for the unjust; the Righteous for the unrighteous... Satan sets death onto the world, God sets Life onto the world--for all to benefit, all who believe and obey that is! When Yahweh said "choose life..." He was offering a choice with a built-in safety... When Jesus said "if you abide in me..." He was offering us that same choice with that same built-in safety: "be holy for I am Holy." We are called to perfection; but, God does not use tricks or strings to control our decisions. As Paul said: 'For me everthing is permissible'; maybe, but not everthing does good. True, for me everything is permissible, but I am determined not to be dominated by anything. (1 Corinthians 6:12) Is Paul saying that because he is living by Grace he can do anything he desires... No! He is saying that in God we are free to choose anything that we want to do or have... But he quickly counters that not everything does good--anything that keeps us from being one with Chirst is not good for our spiritual wellbeing! Though God does not want anybody to die, He will not force-feed us Salvation: But the rest of the human race, who escaped death by these plagues, refused either to abandon their own handiwork or to stop worshipping devils, the idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood that can neither see nor hear nor move. Nor did they give up their murdering, or witchcraft, or fornicating or stealing. (Revelation 9:20-21) but though people were scorched by the fierce heat of it, they cursed the name of God who had the power to cause such plagues, and they would not repent and glorify him. (Revelations 16:9) Surely, God has our best interest at heart (Romans 10:28), but He allows us freedom to choose Him over everything else (John 1:12-13 and Romans 10:16). God Bless! Angel |
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