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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | wednsday or friday Jesus died | NT general Archive 1 | dodoy | 219819 | ||
Dear Searcher56; I am just a newcomer to the forum (in fact, just now, Dec 21), so I have just read your post. I am quite impressed by your details on the final week of the Lord Jesus Christ prior to His crucifixion. They are really informative. I agree that the preparation of spices and ointments was done on Friday, because Luke 23:56 explicitly tells us so. That preparation was done before the women rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Since this Sabbath according to the commnadment is Saturday, it follows that the preparation was really Friday. However, to say that Christ died Thursday which according to your post is Nisan 14, and then followed by the Passover celebration of the Jews on the nighttime of Thursday will make Friday Nisan 15 a ceremonial Sabbath (see Leviticus 23:5-7). This can not fit in with the buying and the preparation of spices and ointments on that Friday, simply because there is nothing sold on a Sabbath, whether weekly or ceremonial, and therefore the women disciples had no spices and ointments to buy. But the fact that these women disciples were able to prepare the spices and ointments tells us pretty plainly that the women were able to buy the spices and ointments, and therefore that specific Friday can not be a ceremonial Sabbath. Also, Mark 16:1 tells us that the buying of the spices and ointments was done after Sabbath was past. This Sabbath being referred to by Mark is not the same Sabbath being referred to by Luke, or else there would be a contradiction. Of course, the Bible can not contradict itself in this case, because the Sabbath referenced by Luke is the weekly Sabbath or Saturday while the Sabbath referenced by Mark is a ceremonial Sabbath. The Friday preparation of spices and ointments by the women followers of Christ was done after the ceremonial Sabbath referred to by Mark, the very same day which is before the weekly Sabbath referred to by Luke. The only ceremonial Sabbath that can possibly occur before that specific Friday is the ceremonial Sabbath that occurs on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, a feast that follows the Passover. So instead of Friday, it then follows that Thursday is the ceremonial Sabbath of the Jews. The Jews therefore held Passover on Wednesday night, bringing us to the inevitable conclusion that the Lord Jesus Christ died Wednesday. What about the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40? Well, this could be a bit weird to some but the Greek Bible in Mark 16:9 is very specific that the Lord rose from the grave early Sabbath morning! Here is that text in Greek: "Anastas de proi protei sabbatou ephane proton Maria tei Magdalene par es ekbeblekei hepta daimonia" (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia BHS (Hebrew Bible, Masoretic Text or Hebrew Old Testament), edited by K. Elliger and W. Rudoph of the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart, Fourth Corrected Edition, Copyright © 1966, 1977, 1983, 1990 by the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society), Stuttgart. Used by permission.) Even the Latin VULGATE of Sophronius Eusebius Hieronimus, popularly known as St. Jerome, attests to this: "surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia" (Biblia Sacra Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem, Vulgate Latin Bible (VUL), edited by R. Weber, B. Fischer, J. Gribomont, H.F.D. Sparks, and W. Thiele [at Beuron and Tuebingen] Copyright © 1969, 1975, 1983 by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society), Stuttgart. Used by permission) The Greek phrase "proi protei sabbatou" translated in the English Bibles into “early on the first day of the week” literally means “very early on the chief Sabbath” (see parallel usage of "protei" in Acts 16:12, where "protei meridos" was translated into “chief city”). But why chief Sabbath? Because in that Paschal week there was also the ceremonial Sabbath of the Jews following their Passover celebration, and likewise, the ceremonial Sabbath of Christ and His disciples following their Passover celebration Tuesday night. The chief of these Sabbaths, is the Sabbath of the Decalogue, the weekly Sabbath. You could likewise verify for yourself that the Greek phrase in all the other seven verses in the New Testament translated into the phrase “first day of the week” all contained the Greek root word “sabbaton".((Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:2) Sincerely In Christ, dodoy |
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2 | wednsday or friday Jesus died | NT general Archive 1 | Beja | 219821 | ||
Just a note. Protei does indeed mean "first." Its not hard to understand how this could extend to mean "chief" in certain contexts. Such as when we say the phrase "first among equals." At such times it takes on the idea of foremost, or cheif. Also, Sabbatou does indeed mean sabbath as in saturday, but it also can be used to refer to the entire period of time of a sabbath and in that sense basically takes on the meaning of "a week." So when it says "protei sabbatou" it is completely legitimate to translate it "first of the week" which would be sunday. Which is how all the translations, of which I am aware, translated it. So that being said I think we'd need great reason to state that every translation committee ever formed wrongly translated this text while we ourselves have discovered the right meaning. The very first flag that I have gotten it wrong, for me in my personal translating, is that no translation agrees with me. However, that is just food for thought. The person you are responding to wrote his post in 2003 if I saw correctly, so you may not get a response depending on if he still frequents these forums. All that said, welcome to the forums and I hope you are benefited greatly by it! In christ, Beja |
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3 | wednsday or friday Jesus died | NT general Archive 1 | dodoy | 219830 | ||
Dear Pastor Beja, Thank you for the immediate response. In the matter of the Greek phrase "protei sabbatou", it is not that I am conveying the idea that all the committee of translators were wrong and I alone am right. But yes, you are right in saying "we'd need great reason" for it. And that great reason is the absence of biblical basis for translating "sabbatou" into "week". In the Septuagint (LXX Septuaginta (LXT) (Old Greek Jewish Scriptures) edited by Alfred Rahlfs, Copyright © 1935 by the Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society), Stuttgart. Used by permission), "sabbatou" was used 16 times and never was it translated into "week". (2 Chr. 23:8; Neh. 10:32; 13:15, 17, 19, 22; 2 Ma. 5:25; 8:26; Ps. 37:1; 47:1; 91:1; Isa. 66:23; Lam. 2:6) Our Lord Jesus Christ, many times in His earthly ministry, also stood alone on issues on which the greater majority believed otherwise. Thanks for the wholehearted welcome you extended me in joining this forum. dodoy |
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