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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | drbloor | 166226 | ||
Hi Ocelot, And thanks for your post. A lot of my posts appear to have been sucked into the void for good or ill ... Either way, I'll certainly only make a non-doctrinal, non-argumentative point here. Revelation is a book of future prophecy, not a book of history. You can see this in the very first verse: Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass." This indicates that the book of Revelation concerns future incidents which "must shortly come to pass." The book of Revelation was written somewhere between AD 67 and AD 96, which means that anything recorded in the Revelation must happen after this date. So whatever Revelation 12 is discussing, I don't believe that it could have occurred prior to the date of the Revelation, and so could not be the origin of the fall of Satan. That is something I am still searching for :). I think you may have made the same mistake I did, which is to assume that the fall of Satan was a physical fall from heaven, but I am now learning that the doctrine of this forum is actually that of metaphorical fall from a state of perfection/grace. Okay for now and thanks, Dr. B. |
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2 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | Ocelot | 166229 | ||
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place” Just because Revelation 1:1 says this does not mean that God’s not allowed to do any recapping later on. Just a thought Ocelot |
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3 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | mark d seyler | 166240 | ||
Hi Ocelot, This 12th chapter of Revelation is a very interesting one to understand. I do not have the time at present to delve too deeply into it, but I will say these things. That it opens with the words "and a great sign appeared in heaven..." lets us know that this drops out of the narative, and begins a parenthetical section, which will contain symbolic imagery. Each of the symbols used come directly from the Old Testament. This chapter has references to Genesis, of who the woman is, Psalms and Isaiah, of Who the child is, and in vs 9 tells us who the dragon is. Verse 10 connects this chapter to the rest of the Revelation, allowing us to see how it fits. This verse begins, "then I heard a loud voice in heaven...", so this is no longer part of the sign, but re-enters the narrative. As the narrative reveals Satan had only just been thrown down, we know that happened just prior to the events the narrative is now describing. It's an extremely interesting chapter. But aren't they all? Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | kalos | 166255 | ||
Mark: You bring up an important point -- and a true one -- when you mention that the book of Revelation contains parenthetical passages. Following is more information on parenthetical passages in the book of Revelation. 'When reading or studying [the book of] Revelation, people often assume that each section is chronological so that the next chapter or series of events naturally follows the preceding, but that is not the case. Rather, a number of sections in Revelation are parenthetical and the chronological order is halted in order to develop in more detail some aspect of this end-time period like a key person(s), or event(s), or condition(s). 'Some examples: '(1) Chapter 7 stops the chronological progress begun in chapter 6 and forms an interlude which gives us information about the 144,000 and about multitudes who will be saved during the Tribulation. The six seals are described in chapter 6, but the trumpet judgments don’t begin until chapter 8 which constitutes also the seventh seal. Six of these trumpet judgments occur chronologically and are described through chapter 9. The seventh trumpet is not sounded, however, until 11:15. '(2) So again the story of the progress of judgment on earth is halted and we have another parenthesis from 10:1-11:14. Here a vision is given concerning the little book, concerning the no delay once the seventh trumpet is sounded, and concerning the two witnesses. '(3) Revelation 11:15 picks up the chronological process again and the seventh trumpet is sounded. Other sections which are somewhat parenthetical regarding persons and systems are chapters 12, 13, and 17-18.'(www.bible.org) 'These [parenthetical] passages do not advance the prophetic narrative. Looking backward and forward they sum up results accomplished, and speak of results yet to come as if they had already come. In Re14:1, for example, the Lamb and Remnant are seen prophetically on Mount Sion, though they are not actually there till Re20:4-6.' (Scofield, C.I. "Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)" (www.studylight.org) "We offer no defense of our belief that the recipient of the Revelation was John the Apostle; that the date of writing falls near AD 96; that the Revelation has epistolary, prophetic, and apocalyptic features, which must influence its interpretation; and that the book is progressive in nature with parenthetical details added for clarification. Where necessary we will comment on the structure of the book to understand the meaning of the text..." (www.revelationcommentary.org) Grace to you, Kalos |
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5 | The Fall of Satan | Rev 12:4 | mark d seyler | 166285 | ||
Hi Kalos, Certainly this is true. While I disagree somewhat on the particular divisions of narrative and interlude, for instance I understand that sealing of the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude are part of the sequential narrative, clearly John's experience with the angel and the little book are not, as well as other portions. I always look for specific textual cues to let me know how to outline this book, and I find it is quite specific. We cannot have a correct understanding of this revelation unless we understand how these parenthetical passages fit. Love in Christ, Mark |
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