Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | joyfulmom | 154579 | ||
Why is Revelations 11:17 translated with the plural form of "to be"? I can't find another Bible translation rendered that way, or rendered that way in any other verse with the phrase "who were and who are" instead of "who was and who is" | ||||||
2 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Hank | 154580 | ||
Joyfulmom: An interesting question. I can give you a plausible reason for using the plural verbs in Revelation 11:17 which is grammatically accurate in the English. The way in which the NASB translators constructed the English rendition, it would seem fairly obvious that they understood the clause to be in the form of a direct address to God; hence, we could read it thusly: "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty [you] who are and who were..." The antecedent of who therefore becomes 'you' which is understood, although not written, and, according to standard English usage, would take the plural form of the verb. We use the unvoiced but understood 'you' all the time; e.g., we say, "Behave yourself." We don't usually say "You behave yourself." Another example, is "Naughty boy!" when what is clearly meant is "[You are a] naughty boy." The other translations that I have consulted generally have recast the sentence to read, "The One who is and who was." In this construction the antecedent is 'One' and thus takes a singular verb form. In no rendition are we to interpret the clause to mean that the subject itself (God) is plural. ...... According to my analysis, then, both renditions of the verb forms, whether singular or plural, are grammatically correct and deliver the same message. ..... Someone else on the Forum may be able to shed more light on your question than I have. I'd also comment that the Lockman Foundation, translators of the NASB, have been very kind and helpful in answering technical questions concerning their translation, and you may wish to query them on this passage. And, by the way, the book in question is called "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" or simply, "The Revelation." Note that it is always referred to in the singular without an 's' -- but never in the plural. --Hank | ||||||
3 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Ray | 154643 | ||
Hi Hank, See also the Rev 11:15 thread. You wrote here that "In no rendition are we to interpret the clause to mean that the subject itself (God) is plural." However, Tim Moran has told us that the Lord God, the Almighty in the Greek is always plural. 1) I am interested in your desire to make "Revelation" singular. Is it also your desire to make Revelation capitalized so that the word is talking of Deity? From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Morant61 | 154646 | ||
Greetings Ray! A quick correction if I may! :-) The Hebrew word for God is plural in form, not the Greek. The Greek word for God is singular. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Ray | 154650 | ||
Hi Tim, I wondered about that when I wrote it and appreciate the correction. How about the Greek here in Revelation 11:17? Does it give an indication of plurality or tense? Who reigns and when? 1) Do you capitalize "Revelation?" From the heart, Ray |
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6 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Morant61 | 154678 | ||
Greetings Ray! I only capitalize 'Revelation' is I am refering to the book by that name. :) A literal translation of Rev. 11:17 would be: "saying, 'We give thanks to You, Lord the God the Almighty, He who is (plural) and He who was (singular)...'" From the little research I have done on this verse, it appears that these unusual structure is a deliberate attempt to imitate the Hebrew name 'YHWH'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Why translationed "who are and who were? | Rev 11:17 | Ray | 154693 | ||
Hi Tim, I would be interested in what the TR text says (singular or plural) for "and the (One) coming. As far as capitalizing "Revelation" because it is the title of the book, I see no problem in doing that. However, we still have the problem of speaking of the (w)Word of God, the Holy Bible, and how we distinguish the word from the Word Himself. In other words, go ahead and capitalize Revelation in verse one but realize that John is bearing witness "to the word [sic] of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw." Revelation 1:3, "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words [sic] of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." Please let me know if you look into the TR text for Revelation 11:17. From the heart, Ray |
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