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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | does this mean we aren't born of God. | 1 John 3:9 | paulta | 60042 | ||
I have reproduced here a part of Kalos' response to Elice Fox' question: 'Can believers sin for extended periods of time? And how can such people know whether their sin is a temporary failure or proof that they are unsaved? Obviously even in Scripture we see that believers sometimes sin grievously and over long periods of time. David is one example (2 Samuel 11-12; Psalm 51); Lot is another (2 Peter 2:7-9). Christians who sin in such a fashion should not expect to enjoy assurance, however. Of course, true believers do not lose their salvation when they sin (cf. Romans 8:35-39), but even David testified that he had forfeited the joy of salvation (Psalm 51:12). We are urged in 2 Cor 13 (I think v5) to 'examine yourselves, test yourselves to discover whether you are in the faith'. I wouldn't go so far as to say 'of course' you don't lose your salvation when you sin - John's letters to the churches at Sardis and Laodicea are written to 'Christians' on the highway to hell because of their hypocritical lifestyle (and we all know from Mt 23 how Jesus felt about hypocrites). True salvation is evidenced by conduct; this conduct is weighed up by God over whatever time period He has allocated to you. Again, look at the way God assesses the churches in Revelation: He weighs their good conduct against their bad, and comes up with an assessment based on the balance of the two. John the Baptist said "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance" - true repentance (which is the foundation of salvation) is measured and evidenced by changed conduct and increasing fruitfulness. |
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2 | does this mean we aren't born of God. | 1 John 3:9 | kalos | 60057 | ||
Believers don't lose their salvation. Paulta: I reiterate: "TRUE BELIEVERS do not lose their salvation when they sin (compare Romans 8:35-39)." There are no TRUE BELIEVERS on the highway to hell because of their hypocritical lifestyle or for any other reason. True believers do not continually, habitually *practice* a hypocritical lifestyle. 'No one who persists in willful, deliberate sin and rebellion against the Lord should be encouraged with any promise of assurance. If you know someone like that who professes faith in Christ, follow the process of Matthew 18 and call that person to repentance. But don’t encourage him or her with the promise of security. Such a person may be clinging to a false hope' (http://www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/sinextend.htm) True believers do not lose their salvation when they sin. 'Scripture abundantly affirms the Christian's eternal security; therefore this passage must not be interpreted as teaching that believers in Christ can lose their salvation. See Jn 3:15-16, 36; 10:27-30; Rom 8:35,37-39; Eph 1:12-14; 4:30; Phil 1:6; Heb 10:12-14; 1 Pet 1:3-5' (note at Heb 6:4, New Scofield Reference Bible, Oxford, 1967). Even if our good conduct outweighs the bad, that is not what saves us. God does not save us based on an assessment of our good conduct (Eph 2:8-9; Rom 3:28). The foundation of salvation is the blood of Jesus Christ -- period. The foundation of salvation is neither surrender, baptism, repentance nor confession. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament faith, or belief, is stated as the single condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31). Grace to you, kalos |
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3 | does this mean we aren't born of God. | 1 John 3:9 | paulta | 60202 | ||
I didn't intend my previous comments to imply a salvation by works. Salvation is by grace, through faith. The blood of Christ has saved us (Eph 1:7). What I was trying to say, however, is that a genuine faith is evidenced by works. In fact, works are actually a component of faith (Jam 2:22). This scripture says that faith is actually completed by works. In the next verse (2:23), it says that Genesis 15:6 was fulfilled or completed in Genesis 22:10 through Abraham's act of being willing to slay Isaac. That is, Abraham's faith decision of 15:6 (the 'assent' part of his faith) was only completed faith after he passed the test of obedience in 22:10. If Abraham had failed the test, could we say that the faith exhibited in 15:6 was genuine, or just a good intention or sentiment? James says no, that faith without works is actually dead; that is, it is not faith at all (2:14,17,20,24). Again, I just have to repeat that you aren't saved by the works. The works are evidence of a genuine faith. Many people have come to see faith - particularly because of faith movement teaching - as being some kind of internal state. Well, yes it is - in part. If that mental agreement with the Truth doesn't crystallise in action, however, it is not faith that God recognises. As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead (Jam 2:26). Many 'Christians' have the faith of the demons referred to in James 2:19 - they know that God is God, they 'believe' in Him, but the lack of Spirit-empowered transformation in their life is evidence that they don't know Him (and knowledge of Him is the definition of eternal life, see Jn 17:3, 1 Jn 2:3). Jesus said (paraphrased from Jn 14:12) "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do the things that I have been doing, and greater things than these will he do..." Again, faith here is linked inextricably with action, not action which saves, but action which flows out of a genuine Holy Spirit-powered faith. On the issue of backsliding out of salvation, maybe I should cite some scriptural authority, as my last message was written in the last 5 minutes of my lunch hour. In 2 Pet 1:8 the possibility is raised that a believer can become useless and unfruitful in the knowledge of Christ, if (s)he doesn't possess an increasing measure of certain qualities listed in 1:5-7. (Bear in mind that fruitfulness is evidence of salvation; see: Mt 25; Heb 6:7,8; Lk 13:6-9; Jn 5:29; etc.) The believer is urged in 1:10 to make his calling sure, implying that your calling can be on an unsure footing if the listed fruits aren't present. See also: Heb 6:4-12; Lk 8:13; Rev 3:2, 15 (I couldn't expand on these due to a 5000-character word-limit imposed by the system.) Of course, no true believers are on the highway to hell, as their conduct flows out of a saving faith. My main reason for writing at length on this issue is to at least put up some credible opposition to the dangerous idea that 'once saved, you're always saved'. A person can definitely get saved and then fall away to hell; the above scriptures clearly explain that. However, you don't fall away on the strength of one sin alone, obviously. If that was the case, King David would have been hell-bound (although he could have been if the repentance of Ps 51 hadn't been shown at some point). James 1:15 says '...when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death'. What is implied here is a process: death (hell) results when either wilful disregard for sins is present, or when relationship with God is consistently and unrepentantly neglected over time, such that the person bears fruit for death (Rom 6:21, 7:5). Fruit takes time to grow, and while that time is elapsing, the mercy of God is ever-present to any backsliding believer who is willing to repent of his actions. Again I would cite 2 Cor 13:5 - 'Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you - unless indeed you fail the test?' It would not be logical of Paul to write this to the Corinthian believers if he believed it to be impossible for them to fall away. This scripture is a stern call to fear God (2 Cor 7:1) and to strive in the Spirit's power (Rom 8:13) for deeper sanctification, lest we shrink back (Heb 10:38) and gradually fall away. |
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