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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | the meaning of the rebellion | 2 Thess 2:1 | mark d seyler | 154451 | ||
Actually, Paul writes that "that day shall not come" (not the Second Coming, but rather the Day of the Lord) until the "apostasia" (standing away from - could be spiritual, like our use of the word 'apostasy', or could be physical like a departure. This word is used both ways in the Bible.), and until the "revealing" of the lawless one. If you conclude that the Abomination of Desolation will be the revealing of the antichrist, then the day of the Lord must come after that. On the other hand, the confirming of a seven year treaty would be a big giveaway, which will happen three and a half years sooner. Remember, Paul is not saying that the coming of the Lord, and our gathering together to Him is what will happen after these things. He is saying that the Day of the Lord will happen after these things. The confusion came when some claimed that the rapture (our gathering to Him) had already happened, and they were now in the Day of the Lord. Paul says "No, that day will not come until..." Watch for Jesus! |
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2 | the meaning of the rebellion | 2 Thess 2:1 | Jimna | 154468 | ||
Thanks for your reply! Verse 1 states the subject -- with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, So do we agree that the subject is the return of Christ and our gathering back to Him? The next verse continues the sentence as indicated by the comma at the end of the first verse Verse 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. This equates the gathering back to Christ as the Day of the Lord. Yes? Verse 3 continues expanding on Paul's effort to explain the Gathering Back to Christ on the Day of the Lord. Clearly stated is that the apostasy must come first, then the man of lawlessness is revealed. So whatever the word apostasy might mean in this context, it comes before the man of sin is revealed, which comes before Christ returns and gathers us back to Him. Paul says in short, First the apostasy (falling away), then the abomination of desolation, then the gathering back (rapture if you like). I understand what you are saying though that this then would allow us to know the day and the hour of His return contrary to the Gospel. This might be resolved by "but for the sake of His elect that time will be forshortened" leaving us knowing the season, but not the day or the hour. |
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3 | the meaning of the rebellion | 2 Thess 2:1 | mark d seyler | 154482 | ||
This passage does not actually state that the gathering to Christ and the day of the Lord are one and the same. If you assume that they are, it will affect your interpretation of this passage. 2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; "now, concerning the coming of the Lord, and our gathering to Him, you are troubled thinking that the Day of Christ is at hand." Why would they be troubled thinking that the Day of the LORD was at hand, if that meant they were about to be gathered to Him? It makes much more sense if they understood that Jesus comes first to remove His church before the day of the Lord. So when someone comes along saying "its the day of the Lord", their reaction is "hey, wait, what about our gathering to Him?". Paul tells them "don't worry - its not the day of the Lord yet. That day won't come until..." They haven't missed the rapture after all. Regarding knowing the day or the hour. The verse I think you are referring to is Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened (cut off, truncated, made shorter), there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. According to the prophets, Jesus will come in glory 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1260 days following the abomination of desolation. By what computation would you not know the exact day of His second coming, once you saw the abomination of desolation? Since we know the seventieth week of Daniel begins with the confirming of a seven year covenant, and Jesus will return in glory 7 years later, (84 months, or 2520 days), again, how would you not know the day of His return? Or, if you say that these days will be shortened, do you mean that Jesus will not return on the prophesied day? With these specific prophecies of His return, how can this make any sense unless there is a catching away of the saints first? Matthew 24:42 “Watch, then, for you do not know in what hour your Lord comes.” Matthew 25:13 “Therefore, watch, for you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man comes.” Mark 13:32-37 “But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father. Watch! Be wakeful, and pray. For you do not know when the time is. As a man going away, leaving his house, and giving his slaves authority, and to each his work (and he commanded the doorkeeper, that he watch), then you watch, for you do not know when the lord of the house is coming, at evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or early; so that he may not come suddenly and find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all. Watch!” Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief.” We watch for Jesus, not knowing when He comes. “He commanded the doorkeeper, that he should watch,” to watch for the returning master of the house. Jesus says over and over to watch because we don’t know when He is coming, and we are to be found ready. Jesus wants us ready at all times, telling us that He could come back at any time, that we should expect Him at any moment. Are we wrong to expect Him at any moment? We know Jesus is coming. We are to watch for Him. Are there prophecies to be fulfilled before He comes? Whether or not you believe the rapture to be imminent depends entirely on where you place it in referrence to other prophecies. If you believe that the rapture will occur following the the abomination of desolation according to the common pre-wrath or post trib views, then the rapture is not imminent. It cannot happen until these other events have taken place. The basic idea of expectancy implies imminence, in that if my understanding of end-times prophecy were that a particular prophecy or group of prophecies had to happen before the rapture, I would not be expecting Jesus ‘at any moment’. I would be looking intead for the fulfullment of that prophecy. There will be no imminency, and neither will there be expectancy. You will not be expecting the rapture, you will be expecting other things first. So are you watching for the appearance of the antichrist, or are you watching for Jesus Christ? Love in Christ, Mark |
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