Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | New Creature | 135122 | ||
Dalcent you asked: "is there scripture conclusively proving God doesn’t sanctify in the after life." To which I counter with: Can you provide any Scripture that would indicate that "sanctifcation is continued in the individual in the after life? |
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2 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135164 | ||
Hi there, Compare these three verses: Acts 20:20 how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, 2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 1Ti 3:15 …the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Now please answer if possible: For, Acts 20:20, is the entirety of this ‘teaching’ contained in the NT, and has to be limited to this? Give a scripture. In, 2 Th 2:15, are the traditions taught ‘either by our spoken word or by our letter’ exact duplications, with no additional teaching delivered by ‘mouth?’ Yes or No or Don’t know? And, 1 Tim3:15, if there is any supplementary oral teaching, would it not obviously be held the ‘church of the living God’ where there is a 2,000 continuity / apostolic succession: rather than a denomination some man founded in say 1865, earnestly trying to work out what the apostolic teaching was using a Bible. Allowing the plain sense of 2 Th 2:15, if a doctrine is false, why can’t I ask for a scripture which disproves it, if it is held by my Church. Best Regards Dalcent |
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3 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | srbaegon | 135170 | ||
Hello Dalcent, "Now please answer if possible: For, Acts 20:20, is the entirety of this 'teaching' contained in the NT, and has to be limited to this? Give a scripture." One will not do it. It would take a bit of time to assemble the teaching on the doctrine of canonicity. "In, 2 Th 2:15, are the traditions taught 'either by our spoken word or by our letter' exact duplications, with no additional teaching delivered by 'mouth?' Yes or No or Don’t know?" I would say it is a duplication (1 Cor 11:2,16). "And, 1 Tim 3:15, if there is any supplementary oral teaching, would it not obviously be held the 'church of the living God' where there is a 2,000 continuity / apostolic succession..." If such a thing existed in one "church," I would say yes. "Allowing the plain sense of 2 Th 2:15, if a doctrine is false, why can’t I ask for a scripture which disproves it, if it is held by my Church." Because your church reinterprets all the verses which point out the disprovals. Steve |
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4 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135212 | ||
Hi there, You cited: 1Co 11:2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you 1Co 11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God. In what way do these verses infer that these traditions refer only to the text of the NT rather than those traditions delivered orally which may have things to add? I can't see your point is proven in anyway in these verses. It doesn't say as I delivered to you in the Bible only! 2Jo 1:12 is absolutely clear John has more teachings to deliver than what he has put in writing: "Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink. Instead I hope to come to you and talk face to face, so that our joy may be complete," viz. some aspect of his teaching is not complete. Can you reword the last line. "Because your church reinterprets all the verses which point out the disprovals." I'm sorry but I can't make out what you're meaning here. I interested in understanding your point. Best Regards Dalcent |
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5 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | srbaegon | 135228 | ||
Hello Dalcent, "In what way do these verses infer that these traditions refer only to the text of the NT rather than those traditions delivered orally which may have things to add?" It doesn't infer this. My point was that Paul was consistent in his teaching to all the churches whether oral or written. "2Jo 1:12 is absolutely clear John has more teachings to deliver than what he has put in writing...viz. some aspect of his teaching is not complete." Agreed, but because the teaching wasn't shared with the other churches (i.e. canonized), we have no reason to think it was pertinent to anyone else or even that it was additional teaching beyond the revelation already given through the apostles. "Can you reword the last line. 'Because your church reinterprets all the verses which point out the disprovals.' I'm sorry but I can't make out what you're meaning here. I interested in understanding your point." I'll give an example--the perpetual virginity of Mary. There are two very clear verses which negate this: 1) Matt 1:24-25 (ESV) When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, [25] but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. RCC teaching would say this is only letting us know Joseph obeyed during Mary's pregnancy, and that we cannot state there was the normal sexual union afterward. But normal English usage (which is what the translators work toward) would infer that Joseph had normal sexual relations with Mary after Jesus was born. My wife and I were at a funeral home last night for visitation until 6:15. What did I mean? That we left at 6:15. While I could have been technically correct if I told you we were there until 6:00, my meaning was best conveyed by using the time we actually departed. The same is true of the text in Matthew’s gospel. 2) Mark 3: 31-35 And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. [32] And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, "Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you." [33] And he answered them, "Who are my mother and my brothers?" [34] And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! [35] Whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother." Again, normal English usage would indicate these were his half-brothers and not other relatives (cousins, etc.) as RCC teaching would have. Steve |
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6 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135245 | ||
Dear Steve, I hesitate to answer the query about ‘scripture alone’ by getting involved in very specific and applied examples; but this “not a virgin” stuff is so easy to disprove when we have Biblical geniuses like Jerome to draw on. Regarding Mat 1:25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus. Normal English usage (which is what the translators work toward) is why you misunderstand this verse. Translations are not infallible. The phase is first-century Greek. If translators ‘transliterate’ idioms and something is lost they’re wrong. Jerome’s argument, you know: “it was usual among the Hebrews to denote by the word UNTIL only what is done, without any regard to the future.” What you don’t know is that he proves it conclusively by scripture, that this usage is REPEATEDLY seen elsewhere in the Bible: Gen 8:6-7 At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made and sent forth a raven. It went to and fro UNTIL the waters were dried up from the earth. Did it come back when the waters were dried up from the earth? The OT words I give in BOLD each time is the Hebrew word ‘ad’ H5704 Isaiah 46:4 EVEN to your old age I am he, and to gray hairs I will carry you. I have made, and I will bear; I will carry and will save. Does God then cease to be? 1Maccabees 5:54 And they went up to mount Sion with joy and gladness, and offered holocausts, because not one of them was slain, TILL they had returned in peace. Where they slain after returning in peace? Luk 20:42-43 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms: The Lord said to my Lord, sit thou on my right hand, till(heos) I make thy enemies thy footstool. Does Jesus no longer sit at the Father’s right hand at this point? Mat 1:25 again, but knew her not until(heos) she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. Nothing is implied about 'afterwards' in Jewish usage in ALL of the examples. They are all fair examples too. Words in foreign language are simply not always exactly translatable to exact equivalents in other languages. Maybe its time to start respecting Church fathers like Jerome who spent decades in the Holy Land and Bethlehem 1600 years and learnt Ancient Hebrew from contemporary Jewish friends and is Catholicism’s greatest Biblical Doctor. Maybe just maybe he was better placed than some 18th century American Bible interpreter. Frankly, Jerome has decimated your ‘until’ argument. I don’t want to sound triumphalistic but c’mon. This one has been put to bed. Dalcent. |
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7 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | srbaegon | 135302 | ||
Hello Dalcent, Thank you for strengthening my argument with these verses. In each case something is met which completes the entire condition. It is no longer in effect. Gen 8:6-7 - The raven ceased going to and fro. It settled down. Isaiah 46:4 - God no longer carries us because we are with him. Luke 20:42-43 - See 1 Cor 15:25-28. Matt 1:25 - The had sexual relations after Jesus was born. Steve |
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8 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135353 | ||
Wow, you know more than Jerome. Goodbye Studybibleforum. | ||||||
9 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Morant61 | 135361 | ||
Greetings Dalcent! Matt. 1:25 certainly doesn't mandate that Mary must have had children after Jesus, but neither does it rule it out. The most natural reading would definitely seem to be that Joseph did have sexual relations with Mary after the birth of Jesus. Which every way you view it, where does Scripture teach that Mary did not have any other children? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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