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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | A Christian View of Science | Acts 17:28 | Lionstrong | 48423 | ||
"There is no logical reason logic is valid, i.e. to use logic as a means of making decisions or deriving understanding, yet we seem to think that in many areas, logic is the best way to proceed. " To make any rational statement requires logic. To proceed rationally (i.e. logically) is the ONLY way to proceed. You can't understand the first word in the Bible without logic. See the discussion below. Three Laws of Logic The three laws of thought are universal, irrefutable, and true for reasons already stated. Without these laws, it is impossible to imagine how anything written or spoken could be intelligible. More to the point, the laws are the basis of necessary inference, for without them, necessary inference vanishes! To repeat, the laws of logic are universal, irrefutable, and true. By "universal," we mean allows for no exception. "Irrefutable" means that any attempt to refute them, makes use of them; thus, establishing them as necessary for argument. "True" means not only "not-false," but not-false because they are grounded in the Logos of God, the source and determiner of all truth. Moreover, the laws stand together as a trinity; to fault one, is to fault all, and to uphold one, upholds the others. Together, these laws establish and clarify the meaning of necessary inference for logic and all intelligible discourse. Here is a brief statement of each. 1 The law of identity states that if any statement is true, then it is true; or, every proposition implies itself: A implies A. 2 The law of excluded middle states that everything must either be or not be; or, everything is A or not-A. 3 The law of contradiction states that no statement can be both true and false; or, A and not-A is a contradiction and always false: thus, not both A and not-A. Without the first, identity or sameness is lost; without the second, confusion begins; and without the last, irrationalism is in full residence. To recapitulate. Logic is the science of necessary inference. The basic elements are propositions in arguments. A proposition is the meaning of a declarative sentence. An argument is composed of propositions some of which are premises, one of which is the conclusion. The premises are reasons given to support the conclusion of an argument or a position. Arguments are classified as either inductive or deductive. With Deductive Argument, we ask: "Does this conclusion follow as a necessary consequence from these premises?" If the answer is affirmative, the Deductive Argument is valid; otherwise, the argument is invalid. Deductive Arguments are either valid or invalid. Also, if the argument is not invalid, then it is valid. If the argument is not valid, then it is invalid. Three reasons for the study of logic are (1) correct thinking requires it; (2) discerning minds necessarily depend on it; and (3) man is a rational being in the image of his Creator. Logic is universal, necessary, and irreplaceable. Man's mind was formed on the principles of identity, excluded middle, and contradiction. These three laws are the basis for all intelligible thought. Without them, all rational discourse vanishes. (http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/carranza/study1.htm) Much more needs to be said about your comments, but I will stop with your confusing statement about logic. Peace, |
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2 | A Christian View of Science | Acts 17:28 | Parable | 48432 | ||
"If you're not confused, you haven't been paying attention!" Forgive me if I have appeared to suggest that logic should be discarded or is in any way less than trustworthy. Indeed, I agree logic is a fundamental part of productive thought, as is imagination. Without imagination, "if" has no meaning. Rather, my point is that logic itself cannot be derived logically or logically proven to be valid. You said "To proceed rationally (i.e. logically) is the ONLY way to proceed." I disagree, we are to proceed by faith. "We live by faith, not by sight." -- 2 Corinthians 5:7 Let me "prove" my point: You presented the notion that any attempt to refute the fundamental laws of logic fails because that refutation makes use of them. I submit that in like manner, any attempt to establish those laws also fails because that derivation must also make use of them. What comforts me is knowing logic is a gift from God, yet it is surpassed by the peace of God. "And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." -- Philippians 4:7 |
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3 | A Christian View of Science | Acts 17:28 | Lionstrong | 48504 | ||
Dear Parable, 2 Cor 5:7, do you quote this verse to mean that Scripture teaches that faith is irrational? Faith (the act of believing an understood proposition) by its very definition cannot be irrational. Biblical faith requires reason. We must understand the Gospel before we can believe it. (Rom 10:11-17) Just because the things we believe are invisible does not make our faith irrational (except to the world, but their reasons for concluding that our faith is irrational are invalid or they start with the wrong premises). Second, Phil 4:7 says the peace of God transcends OUR understanding, not logic. It does not teach that God's peace transcends logic; it transcends the limits of our ability to understand it. Because calculus transcends a first grader's understanding, does it mean that calculus is beyond mathematics? Logic is the structure of God's mind. God did not create it and then gift man with it. It is eternal because God is eternal. We are rational because we are created as the image of a rational God. The centurion was commended by Christ for his great faith because he logically reasoned to a valid conclusion (that Chirst did not have to come with him because Christ had the authority to command reality) and believed it, a faith demonstrated by the request he made of Jesus.(Notice his premise and conclusion.) (Mat 8:5-10) Peace, |
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4 | A Christian View of Science | Acts 17:28 | Parable | 48796 | ||
I'm struggling to see where we disagree. You make excellent points. You asked "2 Cor 5:7, do you quote this verse to mean that Scripture teaches that faith is irrational?" Quite the contrary. I'm just suggesting that faith is the first premise in any line of reasoning, even if we are not aware of this crucial first step. My point is people depend on faith, in one form or another, even when they argue against it. I agree that our faith in things unseen is not irrational. For example, in science, we have faith in things unseen, such as magnetic fields, which are well established, but no one has or will ever see one directly, yet we see how they exert their influence. It is no different for our faith in Christ. He is well established and we who see and understand His influence have faith in Him. You said "Phil 4:7 says the peace of God transcends OUR understanding, not logic. It does not teach that God's peace transcends logic; it transcends the limits of our ability to understand it." As I read it, the verse says "all" understanding, not "our", but this is hardly the point and in fact I may agree with you. However, I'm not sure logic exists without us to think it, so I'm not sure what you have said makes any real sense. That is, if we can't understand logic at some point, it might as well be gibberish, so all we have at that point is faith in God's providence. You said "Logic is the structure of God's mind. God did not create it and then gift man with it. It is eternal because God is eternal." These statements seem like a good summary of your opinion. Clearly, you have strong faith in the divine nature and integrity of logic. I'm with you. "We are rational because we are created as the image of a rational God." That we are rational is debatable. :) Finally, the centurion's very logical request followed from His faith in Christ's authority. Parable. |
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