Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | smerka | 147268 | ||
Annually, our church hosts a chicken barbeque supper to raise funds for some special project. Recently some ladies of the church had a "yard sale" at the church to raise money to purchase new bibles for the children. Additionally, one of our members plans on setting up a table to sell jewelry she makes. A portion of her profit will be given to the Church. In relation to to Matthew 21:12, I have a problem with all of this, especially the jewelry table. Please help. | ||||||
2 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147299 | ||
smerka Let us look at what the verse says and what is going on and who all is involved. Jesus drove out both sellers and buyers. The sellers were money changers and dove or sacrifice sellers. First I have heard many pastors explain Jesus did this because these men were cheating and they probably were but if that is reason Jesus drove them out why did He include the buyers or the victims also? I don't think this was the reason. Next who were these sellers? In the Jewish temple you couldn't pay your tithe or offering using Roman money it had a picture of people on it and it was considered a graven image. Deuteronomy 4:16 (NASB) 16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, Therefore worshipper to pay their tithe and offerings had to get temple money and there was only one way to do it. See a money changer. So you see the moneychangers were needed for someone to properly worship, they were doing a service. Also there were the sellers of doves or sacrifices. People travel by foot or caravan from outlying places to go to worship. It was impractical to travel those distances with an animal for sacrifice. What they would do is pick the best animal they had and sell it. Taking the money to Jerusalem and then buying the best animal that money would buy. Again they needed a sacrifice to worship and this was the only way to get it. Again the sellers of the animals were doing a very needed service enabling strangers to worship in the temple. So we see again they were doing it for the right reasons. However we see Jesus drive them out. Why if they were needed and they were doing it so God would be honored? Jesus said my house will be known as a house of prayer not of commerce. We buy and sell in church allowing traveling singing groups to set up tape tables, having a church book store, having yard sales all good things but is it what God wants? We complain the church doesn't have the prestige in the community it once had, the church doesn't get any respect. How does the world view a church that has yard sales, bake sales, fund raising drives? Do they view it as a house of prayer or a house where they are always after your money? My belief is the people of the church and only the people of the church should support the church through regular tithes and offerings. If they won't then they shouldn't have a church because their money means more to them than the church does. This should be taken to the point of asking visitors not to put anything in the offering, but instructing them to pay it to their church when they get home. Someone said that if the money is going to a good cause then it is okay. Is that right? Does the end justify the means? Perhaps the church should have a house of prostitution if they use the money for benevolence. I’m sure everyone will shout NOT! But tell me the difference, in light of what Jesus did when he cleansed the temple. The church is out of order in respect to money and I believe that is one of the main reasons we see people resisting Christianity as we do today. EdB |
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3 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | Morant61 | 147308 | ||
Greetings EdB! I would respectfully take a different view my friend. You wrote: "Someone said that if the money is going to a good cause then it is okay. Is that right? Does the end justify the means? Perhaps the church should have a house of prostitution if they use the money for benevolence. I’m sure everyone will shout NOT! But tell me the difference, in light of what Jesus did when he cleansed the temple. The church is out of order in respect to money and I believe that is one of the main reasons we see people resisting Christianity as we do today." There is a major difference in your example. Sexual immorality is clearly condemned in Scripture, selling items is not. :-) The phrase used in Mt. 21:13 is 'a house of robbers'. The word 'robbers' is also the word for 'bandits' and often refers to force. I take the more traditional view that the money changers were taking advantage of the worshippers. They HAD to exchange their money in order to worship, so the money changers could rob them blind by charging outrageous exchange rates. Either way, there simply isn't any verse the specifically condemns selling something to help out a church's budget. One church that I pastored used to have a yearly bazar in the basement. They would sell mostly homemade items and use the money for missions. It was a huge sucess and actually brought people into our church as an evangelistic tool. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147325 | ||
Tim As you said we disagree. Again I remind you Jesus drove out both the sellers and buyers (victims as you make them). If the problem was just the crooks why did Jesus drive out the innocent buyers also? In John account of an earlier episode John 2:15-16 (NKJV) 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!" We see no mention of corruption other than mention of turning God's house into a house of merchandise. We can read anything we want into it but the fact remains Jesus complained about misusing God's house not how business was conducted. Again I stand on my original statement. If the congregation will not support the church let it be accounted to them and let them not have a church. There is no reason for a church to be in need if God's people are obedient. You used the example of your church selling homemade items, that is fantastic how about a crafts fair where they taught people how to make them themselves and perhaps gave them one of the crafts? I would think that would draw even more people in. My example with prostitution was out there and I know it I just wanted a definite contrast. But is selling jewelry and giving the church a cut, as the person that submitted this question mentioned, that much different? EdB |
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5 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | Morant61 | 147332 | ||
Greetings EdB! I was just operating off of the Matthew Scripture. The John passage certainly sounds more like your view. :-) I would have to more study on the word used in John. Of course, one could combine the passages and reasonably assume that the 'robbery' was the issue. ;-) Well, I have to run for now my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147338 | ||
Tim But if robbery was the issue why run both groups out? Jesus turned both the robbers if that were in fact the case and the victims. I don't see how we can reconcile Jesus' action to fact they were cheaping. To me we have to reconcile it to the fact both sellers and buyers were carrying on commerce in God's house, and this is what upset Jesus. It also agrees with the accounts in the other gospels especially John. If you decide my view is wrong, explain why Jesus ran both the criminal and the victim out. EdB EdB |
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7 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | DocTrinsograce | 147351 | ||
Hi brother Ed, I know you were writing to Tim, but I didn't quite understand the sentence "I don't see how we can reconcile Jesus' action to fact they were cheaping." Just an aside here: I had always assumed that in addition to all the ungodly gain that the High Priest's family was making in the temple (thus profaning it in a literal way), they were also preventing many people from actually entering the temple -- thus, preventing people from approaching the Lord. I got this impression from Matthew 21:14-15 since it mentions the lame, blind, and children coming to Him in the temple. In Him, Doc |
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8 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147363 | ||
Doc I hit a 'p' where I should have hit a 't'. I meant to say I don't see how we can reconcile Jesus' actions to the fact they we cheating. Again I was focusing on the fact that Jesus drove out what would be both the supposed criminals and also the victims. To me this means He had something else in mind and that being conducting commerce in the Lord's house. Doc I think there are many stories that may or may not have happened. Let us face facts if money was involved I'm sure man had brought corruption into it somehow. EdB |
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9 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | DocTrinsograce | 147381 | ||
Hi, brother Ed, Glad it was a typo... I thought it might have been one of those inner circle theologian things again! :-) Did you know that according to the Talmud, the ideal High Priest differed from his priestly brothers in several specific ways: in wealth, in physical strength and fitness, in wisdom, and in good looks? The role was passed down father to son (as long as the son appeared to be "God fearing"). One of the perks was a percentage of the profits made from these activities in the temple. Sounds like the industrialized version of Hophni and Phinehas! In Him, Doc |
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10 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147392 | ||
Doc Sounds a lot like some modern churches. Where once the dynasty is established it is passed from father to son. I know one instance where the combined income of the father/son is enough to choke a horse. Like I said anything involving money and man will figure a way to corrupt it. EdB Ps the term 'choke a horse' isn't an inner circle theological term, it is country for a lot. Like in they made a huge amount of money. |
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11 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | DocTrinsograce | 147394 | ||
I believe I know of that church! Thank you for shedding light on the phraseology behind the reference to equine esophageal occlusion. This saved me significant head-scratching. I had already pulled down my "Inner Circle Theological Terms for Dummies" book! :-) |
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12 | Selling on the Church ground. | Matt 21:12 | EdB | 147396 | ||
Doc You are sick! LOFL EdB |
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