Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Moses appeared from where? | Matt 17:3 | BradK | 225378 | ||
Hello drbloor, Thank you for your time and the spirit in which you answered the questions from the forum on Matt. 17:9. I appreciate the discussion and study. You initially stated, “You will note that in Matt. 17:19 Jesus tells his disciples, "Tell the vision to no one", indicating that the appearance of Moses and Elijah was in fact a "vision" and not a reality - hence neither Moses nor Elijah came from anywhere as they were not actually present.” So, to reiterate I replied that I was, “…understanding that you take this passage in Matthew as figurative vs. literal?” Is this correct? Here would be my further concerns/questions based on your argument: 1. By a “plain”, “straight-forward” reading I am not implying anything “superficial” but an understanding by someone of average or better intelligence with a basic knowledge of scripture- myself for instance! Frankly, I’ve never heard nor understood the meaning you’re implying? How would someone such as this understand what Matthew is saying? In this vain, what is the authorial intent- what did Matthew mean by what he said?; 2. You are correct about the 11 usages of 'horama’ in the NT. While this can and should be strongly considered, I understand that meaning is determined by the use of a word in context, and how the writer uses the term. In other words, context determines meaning!; Vision(s) in the Bible would generally be a visual experience of any kind, but usually refer to supernatural revelations of a prophet; 3. In verse 9, ‘horama’ could mean a ‘sight’ or ‘vision” but may also be rendered “something seen”. Vincent renders it as “spectacle”. I see nothing in the previous verses that would lead me to believe he’s referring merely to a “vision” and not a reality! It seems pretty straight forward that Matthew is speaking to an actual event!; 4. Then, back in verse 3, we have “And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (ESV). What about this is suggestive that this is only a vision? Quite the contrary, the grammar seems to indicate otherwise. ‘Horao’ means ‘to see’- to see with the eye referring to the thing seen (objectively). The use of the indicative mood would further indicate it is a fact, describing it as real and actual; 5. What about the parallel passage in Mark 9:9? As previously mentioned by another poster, how do you factor this account? It reads, “And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.” Tell no one what they had seen to me does not imply any vision, but in fact a reality. We have a different Greek word for ‘see’ used, ‘eidon’ but again in the indicative mood indicating a simple statement of fact! Wuest’s Expanded Translation adds this clarity, “And while they were coming down out of the mountain, He charged them that they should narrate the things which they saw to not even one person, except when the Son of Man should arise out from amongst the dead.”(WWSGNT); 6. Lastly, does your conclusion agree with what others who have studied this passage? Of note, John Gill says in his Exposition of the Bible, “by the "vision" is meant, as it is explained in Mark, "what things they had seen"; as Moses and Elias, and the bright cloud that overshadowed them, and Christ transfigured before them, in a surprising, glorious manner. These Christ strictly ordered Peter, James, and John, to speak of to no man whatever; no, not their fellow disciples; who either would be apt to disbelieve them, on account of the greatness of them, as Thomas did the resurrection of Christ afterwards; or lest they should be troubled and displeased, that they were not admitted to the same sight; and especially not to the multitude, or to any other person,” With all due respect, I do not arrive at the conclusion you’re proposed based upon my reading and study of this passage:-) Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
2 | Moses appeared from where? | Matt 17:3 | drbloor | 225380 | ||
Dear Brad and 00123, I'll post a reply in the next couple of days - I've not been well and didn't want you to think I was being ignorant. Many thanks. |
||||||
3 | Moses appeared from where? | Matt 17:3 | Morant61 | 225382 | ||
Greetings Drbloor and Merry Christmas! Certainly no thinks that you are ignorant my friend! :-) You made some excellent points and observations! There is just some question whether or not your observation necessarily makes the transfiguration 'just a vision' in the sense that it wasn't also a physical reality as well. Have a great Christmas! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||